• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

The true risk of bute (not the hysterical rara version)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Let's remember that Bute is only one of the many, commonly used without supervision of a Vet, drugs we give our horses that these agencies have banned as well, for which there are no tests that I have been able to find, that ID the presence of the substance in a live animal pre-processing.

    The whole 'bute won't hurt you' meme is limp... as others have pointed out the agencies governing imports of several nations say no.
    There doesn't have to be proof that this is a legitimate restriction or that it is incredibly harmful... they said no. That should be enough for us to comply.

    The belligerent refusal of some to see that, that complying with what those agencies want/do not want is what must be done, is what solidifies for us the idea that the horse slaughter industry has no intention of doing things better, more humanely, or with greater consideration if they get to open new plants in the US.
    They keep shooting themselves in the foot with this and then insisting that they aren't shooting themselves in the foot... as they limp off into the sunset...
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by analise View Post
      That is just a patently ridiculous statement, 7a.
      This one is worth saving because it applies to every comment made by 7a containing the words "RARA" or "sisterhood".
      Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
      http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
      http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

      Comment


      • #23
        In this afternoon posts, that are nowhere to be found now, someone posted this link:

        http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/ex...nd-horse-meat/

        I think this is short and to the point, fits in with what I have been reading about this:

        ---Prof Sir Colin Berry, Emeritus Professor of Pathology at Queen Mary, University of London, said:

        “The compound has rarely caused blood dyscrasias even on those who have taken a lot for many years. The idea that you might get a clinically significant amount in horse meat even after therapeutic administration to the horse is, frankly, daft.”"---

        Comment


        • #24
          http://www.fda.gov/regulatoryinforma.../ucm148726.htm
          The Elephant in the room

          Comment


          • #25
            Oh, look! It has rudimentary google skills!
            How cute.
            "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

            ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

            Comment


            • #26
              In this afternoon posts, that are nowhere to be found now,...

              So much for actual discussion of ongoing current events.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
                So, as several new slaughterhouses begin to warm up for debuts in the next several weeks,
                Please provide the link or more information pertaining to the validity of this statement.
                Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
                  In this afternoon posts, that are nowhere to be found now,...

                  So much for actual discussion of ongoing current events.
                  Yes, it was you who posted that one link with the scientists quotes that it was not a health concern with what we know today.

                  Thank you.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Hmm as a ra patient i can tell you that bute isnt on the table though those stats make it seem like tylenol! Compared to the cancer drugs used its childs play apparently?

                    Oh please

                    Its not a viable treatment often used
                    Beyond the Ring-para dressage, training, coaching
                    www.facebook.com/btrparadressage

                    Proud Team Four Star Minion! Renegade for Life!

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by *Teddy* View Post
                      Hmm as a ra patient i can tell you that bute isnt on the table though those stats make it seem like tylenol! Compared to the cancer drugs used its childs play apparently?

                      Oh please

                      Its not a viable treatment often used

                      Agree, but to say that just because a horse years ago had bute is now a risk to eat a few ounces of that horse's meat because it may have some residue, well, that is a very long stretch, when it comes to the science of it.
                      Especially if they have a test for it, in case a horse had bute recently, although with rules today many horses come from a feedlot, where any residues should long be gone.

                      Now, as long as "any bute ever" is against regulations, those come first, unless or until they are re-evaluated and changed or not.
                      Existing regulations is what management has to work with.

                      That is all anyone that has been following this can say.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                        Agree, but to say that just because a horse years ago had bute is now a risk to eat a few ounces of that horse's meat because it may have some residue, well, that is a very long stretch, when it comes to the science of it.
                        Especially if they have a test for it, in case a horse had bute recently, although with rules today many horses come from a feedlot, where any residues should long be gone.

                        Now, as long as "any bute ever" is against regulations, those come first, unless or until they are re-evaluated and changed or not.
                        Existing regulations is what management has to work with.

                        That is all anyone that has been following this can say.
                        Yep!! Hmm they must think it cannot be metabolized and excreted? Id think a waiting period for the system to be cleaned out yes, no bute ever not plausible and moreso not being able to tell unless they raised the stock themselves, too much unknown otherwise
                        Beyond the Ring-para dressage, training, coaching
                        www.facebook.com/btrparadressage

                        Proud Team Four Star Minion! Renegade for Life!

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                          Agree, but to say that just because a horse years ago had bute is now a risk to eat a few ounces of that horse's meat because it may have some residue, well, that is a very long stretch, when it comes to the science of it.
                          Especially if they have a test for it, in case a horse had bute recently, although with rules today many horses come from a feedlot, where any residues should long be gone.

                          Now, as long as "any bute ever" is against regulations, those come first, unless or until they are re-evaluated and changed or not.
                          Existing regulations is what management has to work with.

                          That is all anyone that has been following this can say.
                          It is not my place to say that because I would never eat horse meat, others should not eat it.

                          Therefore:
                          It is no one's place to say that simply because 'we' think it's no big deal to ingest and it's not proven that it will hurt you, the EU and other agencies should allow bute or the other drugs on the list of banned substances in the meat they import.

                          The govm't agencies are very clear on what they do/do not allow.
                          That the industry and it's supporters continue to argue against those limits doesn't bode well for their willingness to comply with any of the regulations within the industry.
                          Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                          http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                            It is not my place to say that because I would never eat horse meat, others should not eat it.

                            Therefore:
                            It is no one's place to say that simply because 'we' think it's no big deal to ingest and it's not proven that it will hurt you, the EU and other agencies should allow bute or the other drugs on the list of banned substances in the meat they import.

                            The govm't agencies are very clear on what they do/do not allow.
                            That the industry and it's supporters continue to argue against those limits doesn't bode well for their willingness to comply with any of the regulations within the industry.
                            I beg to disagree.
                            Every industry has to go bat for what makes sense for that industry, especially when they have one of the biggest, richest non-profit groups in the world set on banning them as their current cause of the moment, that is how that groups makes it's living.

                            There is nothing wrong with defending what you do in life everyone does and has done for millennia, defending from extremists with some strange ideas to change the world into their illogical utopia.
                            Or it should not be, or we would be back to living in caves.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                              I beg to disagree.
                              Every industry has to go bat for what makes sense for that industry, especially when they have one of the biggest, richest non-profit groups in the world set on banning them as their current cause of the moment, that is how that groups makes it's living.

                              There is nothing wrong with defending what you do in life everyone does and has done for millennia, defending from extremists with some strange ideas to change the world into their illogical utopia.
                              Or it should not be, or we would be back to living in caves.
                              So it's not ok for people to impose their beliefs on others about something, unless it is?
                              There's a word for that. Hypo-something?

                              ETA
                              By the way, the HSUS and PETA are not even amongst the top 30 NFP agencies in the world w/$133M in assets for HSUS in 2011

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...le_foundations

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humane_..._United_States
                              Last edited by Angela Freda; Apr. 18, 2013, 01:15 PM.
                              Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                              http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                The ban on the use of phenylbutazone in animals used as food is not the work of AR extremists.

                                There are a lot of drugs which are prohibited for use in food animals.

                                If one wants to extend the use of horses into food, one has to comply with regulations.
                                "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
                                  The ban on the use of phenylbutazone in animals used as food is not the work of AR extremists.

                                  There are a lot of drugs which are prohibited for use in food animals.

                                  If one wants to extend the use of horses into food, one has to comply with regulations.
                                  Right, well stated and yes, as long as there is a ban, they better comply.

                                  Now, the ban didn't come from animal rights extremists, but they have made it one of their more successful battle cries, using it in alarmist ways, for their drive to ban horse slaughter.
                                  I hope no one wants to try to deny that obvious fact, obvious just reading these many pages, I think.

                                  I take drug use and proper withdrawals very seriously, we have seminars on that with beef cattle all the time, it is very important to know what you can use, how you can use it, how and how fast any we use is metabolize and excreted and or what is retained where and for how long.

                                  Bute has, according to old studies, some long lasting residue, but those studies have been questioned lately and the truth is that no one really knows that much about it, that is one reason for the ban.

                                  The science we have, according to what I have been reading since this became one more card in the drive that is this cause of the moment "ban horse slaughter" and most independent scientists that know about this topic admit that to say that, after some times years have past from bute use, it is "daft", quoting from that one English scientist.

                                  BUT, you are right, as long as the ban is in place, all this is moot question, no bute means just that, no bute.
                                  Those in charge better find ways to determine how to manage for that regulation and the problems trying to comply with it brings.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                    BUT, you are right, as long as the ban is in place, all this is moot question, no bute means just that, no bute.
                                    Those in charge better find ways to determine how to manage for that regulation and the problems trying to comply with it brings.
                                    Agree.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      The missing posts went to a development forum that accidentally went live. For those wanting links, etc. that can't be seen here.

                                      here is a link to that doppleganger if you want to read the missing posts.

                                      http://underdev02.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum.php

                                      -Please don't post or pm over there...mods are seeing if they can bring over the posts so keep new posts on the 'real forum', please.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        This this this this


                                        Originally posted by ADM7040 View Post
                                        7arabians, your hysterical spin is exceeded only by your complete lack of understanding of drug safety and risk analysis. The risk of bute is not a "rara spin", it is a decision based upon available data by the FDA and the USDA. I have explained how that works in other threads, but you were probably too busy being hysterical on those threads to comprehend anything that did not support your own dogma.

                                        The long and short of it is something I have read the rabid pro-slaughter proponents post over and over (it is simply inconvenient in this case for their faction): there already are pre-existing rules and regulations that need to be enforced and followed. Bute and multiple other substances, are already banned in animals intended for human consumption. The official government agencies in the US, Canada, Japan, EU, etc have all determined this to be regulation/law. Why should horses be held to a lower standard than cows and pigs?

                                        Hmmm, that could be the start of a slippery slope theory such as the one always being bandied about that we are going to lose our animals. Except here it is that if we let the agriculture industry allow these substances into the human food chain via horses, they will not stop there, they will use it as a stepping stone to introduce legislation allowing cows and pigs to start receiving banned substances as well. That is not a path I am willing to go down. The human food chain needs to be kept as clean and safe as possible.

                                        The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                                        H. Cate

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by betonbill View Post
                                          You forgot to document where your quote came from.



                                          that horses that are slaughtered are generally far older than similar other slaughter animals.
                                          .
                                          This is so untrue. There are many old cows, goats, sheep, pigs that make their way into the food chain via slaughter when their production days are done and they can be into their teens and beyond.

                                          I would also add that there are horses that live their whole lives w/o ever ingesting bute or any other drug/ antibiotic whatsoever. It isn't as rare as you would have us believe. Unless you raise meat for yourself you never know what your going to get and I don't care what your eating.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X