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  • Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
    What in the world......? That is unbelievable. Holy Moly.....

    I guess we now have to define what calling someone a RARA means
    Exactly, show me where I have called anyone "a RARA"

    Making accusations on interpretation of what is said is really not playing fair, or is it?

    We have here a thread about one more horse with a questionable and sad story and of course, that is a good opportunity to go bat for the cause of the moment, "ban slaughter!" by the posters that have spent years at it now.

    Where does pointing that some do that, that whatever we hear that may be going on in slaughter is either not true, taken out of context or someone breaking rules and, maybe as here, we don't quite know "the rest of the story", where is that against the posting rules or reason to jump on me for it, by the usual posters?

    Stay with the story, debate what others, including me, have to say, but don't start with attacks and then, when anyone defends themselves, those for the opposite side take it as a chance to keep at one poster.

    I don't know why the Moderators close threads, but maybe you could ask them if you really want to know, not again blame it on me?
    Sorry, that seems a bit silly.

    If the few of us that keep trying to explain there is more to the slaughter debates than one side and why and what it is are silenced, what will you do, since there will not be any debate then?
    Oh, yes, I know, "ban slaughter".

    To ban slaughter because this or that abuse or mismanagement, sorry to have to point that out again, is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
    Make the process so it suits you, that is what makes sense, because slaughter is, well, ignoring the millennia we have used SOME horses one more time once dead.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JBD View Post
      I want my horses (and others) to have a good life and a humane death. Humane slaughter doesn't exist so until it does, I'll be anti -slaughter. I believe the supply of horses will go down in the future as people are not breeding as much. As for the people who want to make a quick buck on a horse who no longer serves their needs, I refuse to consider that a valid reason for slaughter. If they want to humanely dispose of their horse, different story. And yes I do volunteer for a local pet rescue who pulls from kill shelters.
      You really should not compare small animal shelters, that I also helped in for years, with now horses ending up there and euthanized and taken to landfills as small animals are now.

      That doesn't make sense, when we have a perfectly good process to use those horses one more time and, if we like to consider the reality of what horses are, SOME of them.
      They really are a large amount of produce once dead, that we have always been smart enough to make use of properly, not discard SOME of them carelessly as toxic waste, as some want to do now.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
        Thank you for your kind words.
        You're welcome.
        Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
        Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
        Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

        Comment


        • Big thanks to the "Com-RADS" (Common sense RADical thinkers). I was very uplifted to see posters here mock the personal accusations as they did. It was fun to read and a smart move to jolt a little reality into the discussion.

          For me, the absolute revelation of how caught up in agenda speech some are came when reading their support of cattle prod use in horse training. Along with that thread being a low low low point for this forum, it was a complete loss of credibility for those who spoke in favor of its use. And it stood with little objection over here in Off Course land. Sad sad sad...

          My guess is the prod supporters witnessed its use and somehow they justified it was used with good purposes by good people that they were familiar with. Or perhaps they posted thinking that the prod might be utilized in a "humane" way to keep a horse useful and rationalized it could save a horse from slaughter or a more cruel fate. My guess its use did not sit very well with them and they had to compromise their horse paradigm a little in their head to speak in its favor.

          But the simple reality is "a cattle prod has no use in training a horse" and that simple statement is all that should have said on that thread. I am sure it is all that would have been said by any recognized real horseman.

          They may be pro slaughter and speak up on this board with their posts, but I do not see them as the best folks to turn to on the matter. Specially after that thread. No way would they have any concept of how to bring a horse humanely to slaughter.

          IMO, unlike the guy with the cattle prod, it will take better, un-agenda'd minds using better tools and methods to make more sensible approaches to problems with training and management of any horse slaughter process. Slaughter needs input and direction from people/horseman who can do this without distortion of facts.

          Agenda folks are those that tire of the real work it takes to think and act with good purpose. And it shows in the contributions they make to discussions. Specially when they roll out the personal attacks.

          So big "head nod" yes to those who spoke up against the personal attacks.

          Where do I sign-up ComRAD??
          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
            Exactly, show me where I have called anyone "a RARA"

            Making accusations on interpretation of what is said is really not playing fair, or is it?


            We have here a thread about one more horse with a questionable and sad story and of course, that is a good opportunity to go bat for the cause of the moment, "ban slaughter!" by the posters that have spent years at it now.

            Where does pointing that some do that, that whatever we hear that may be going on in slaughter is either not true, taken out of context or someone breaking rules and, maybe as here, we don't quite know "the rest of the story", where is that against the posting rules or reason to jump on me for it, by the usual posters?

            Stay with the story, debate what others, including me, have to say, but don't start with attacks and then, when anyone defends themselves, those for the opposite side take it as a chance to keep at one poster.

            I don't know why the Moderators close threads, but maybe you could ask them if you really want to know, not again blame it on me?
            Sorry, that seems a bit silly.

            If the few of us that keep trying to explain there is more to the slaughter debates than one side and why and what it is are silenced, what will you do, since there will not be any debate then?
            Oh, yes, I know, "ban slaughter".

            To ban slaughter because this or that abuse or mismanagement, sorry to have to point that out again, is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
            Make the process so it suits you, that is what makes sense, because slaughter is, well, ignoring the millennia we have used SOME horses one more time once dead.
            All I'm saying is that you consistently say everyone who does not agree with you is just spewing RARA words. And that simply is not correct. There is no interpretation needed for straight forward words telling so many people that they are just spewing RARA information. It's really tiresome.

            the only explanation to slaughter that you provide is it's another way to use the horse and anyone who doesn't think so is a RARA. Your words are really just that simple. No special interpretation needed. I think you have failed to see what your repetitive words & phrases sound like.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ADM7040 View Post
              you just do not grow as the discussion evolves.
              I am curious.... what 'growth' do you propose?
              Originally posted by BigMama1
              Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
              GNU Terry Prachett

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JBD View Post
                I want my horses (and others) to have a good life and a humane death. Humane slaughter doesn't exist so until it does, I'll be anti -slaughter. I believe the supply of horses will go down in the future as people are not breeding as much. As for the people who want to make a quick buck on a horse who no longer serves their needs, I refuse to consider that a valid reason for slaughter. If they want to humanely dispose of their horse, different story. And yes I do volunteer for a local pet rescue who pulls from kill shelters.
                that pretty much sums it up, right?

                Pulling dogs from kill shelters is relatively easy. you can park them on the couch in suburbia....

                Pull a fraction of those numbers out of a kill pen and we have a discussion.
                Originally posted by BigMama1
                Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                GNU Terry Prachett

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                  All I'm saying is that you consistently say everyone who does not agree with you is just spewing RARA words. And that simply is not correct. There is no interpretation needed for straight forward words telling so many people that they are just spewing RARA information. It's really tiresome.

                  the only explanation to slaughter that you provide is it's another way to use the horse and anyone who doesn't think so is a RARA. Your words are really just that simple. No special interpretation needed. I think you have failed to see what your repetitive words & phrases sound like.
                  Not really, that is not at all my point in these discussion, as you say there, " ... you consistently say everyone who does not agree with you is just spewing RARA words. ... "

                  By the way, that is not, as some are accusing me, of "calling all RARA's".

                  I do think some are getting "action alerts" from animal rights extremist websites and are coming here with them.
                  Why is saying that when that happens makes certain posters defensive, you think?

                  Sorry if having to repeat what you don't like to hear is "tiresome", but honestly, who keeps repeating themselves with the same old anti slaughter propaganda here?
                  Why don't you take offense to that, in the name of fairness?
                  If you want to keep score, I guarantee you it is them that way more "repeat themselves" than I ever have, with the same questions, links, copy and paste, that has been answered time and again.

                  Why do you object to me stating that I know what horse slaughter is, a process to use the one more renewable, natural resource horses have always been and still are for us thru that process?
                  If you don't agree, explain why, don't go on telling me what I should post or not post.
                  That would make more sense.

                  Comment


                  • Bluey, I'd love to see you address the humane slaughter issue. What would you change in the current system to make it better for the horses?

                    I am like many people here -- I would not have a problem with slaughter if the slaughterhouses were local and people could take their horses there directly, or have someone pick them up and take them right there, and that the folks at the slaughterhouse "knew horses" so to speak and would kill them humanely. That's how it was when/where I was a kid, and it made me sad, but I wasn't against it.
                    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                    1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                    Comment


                    • Bluey, took me 10 minutes, and it's just a small sampling.

                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                      Well, I didn't have the OP pegged as one of the few animal rights followers here, but I guess people do surprise.
                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                      Really, the ones that should be ashamed here are those that further animal rights agendas as that article is.
                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                      You may not want to be seen as an animal rights extremist supporter, but sorry, your "information" comes directly right out of their propaganda, so what do you expect those reading that to think, but that is what you are pushing here with that rant you posted in your OP?
                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                      Still reading all that animal rights propaganda?
                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                      Those that post propaganda from animal rights sites as their excuses for their positions and following those group's ideas are seen as animal rights followers, guess why, because that is what they are doing.
                      Originally posted by Bluey
                      Better than having a handful only and most of those trolling for animal rights extremists ... on a horse forum, from all places.
                      That has never made much sense to me, but I guess that is the internet for you.
                      Originally posted by Bluey
                      Wait until they start asking you if you would put your horse in a slaughter truck, meaning that evidently, in their eyes, that would brand you as an ogre that would eat their young and have puppies for breakfast too, as per their strange ideology and misunderstanding of what the whole slaughter process and it's debates is all about.
                      Originally posted by Bluey
                      Not really, have answered time and again, but seems that some lack basic comprehension of what is being stated.
                      Not surprising they fall for animal rights myths and propaganda so easily, pre-digested ideas ready for consumption by the gullible.

                      Every time we get an "action alert" from animal rights groups, as this story here, certain posters hurry here with that information, not realizing that gives them away as what that makes them, animal rights extremists and their followers.

                      Comment


                      • Those of you for slaughter are so typical of what people ALWAYS do as a solution to any "problem" they attribute to animals -- kill them! No, it's not acceptable and that attitude is simply apathetic. The idea that "it's always been done so let's continue" is also outrageous. Just because it's been done that way is a mindset against thinking outside the box or making any change. It does take radicals with a passion to make change or stop things that are unacceptable and I'm proud to be that for animals. I like animals alot more than most people. If someone didn't step in to help them and really rattle the bars it just wouldn't happen and the same old crap and attitude would persist. You've all overlooked the comparisons and accept the same answer you've always used. Do you REALLY need that last pound of flesh as an end result from these wonderful animals that serve us on so many levels? Keep yourselves locked in that mindset while the rest of us do what we can for what we know is right. Just because we don't have a one size fits all solution doesn't clean up what is wrong. It's disgusting and so is your mindset.
                        PennyG

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                          Bluey, took me 10 minutes, and it's just a small sampling.
                          wrong!

                          You only are showing that Bluey - rightfully so - calls people out on their sources.

                          I did not see a RARA in there anywhere to begin with.

                          On the same token the same can also be deducted the other way around. I have lost count as to how many times people say the same things about Bluey's sources.

                          But unlike Bluey, those other lovely people tend to imply that because she is anti RARA and anti ban, she also abuses horses, sells them to the horrible meat man and kicks puppies with gusty while drowning a few kittens.

                          Sorry, you still lose that 'argument'

                          You repeat what is really propaganda swill on a constant basis you are subject to having your motives scrutinized.

                          The burden of proof is on you.
                          and in the case of Bluey the name caller you failed.
                          miserably.
                          Originally posted by BigMama1
                          Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                          GNU Terry Prachett

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                            Bluey, took me 10 minutes, and it's just a small sampling.
                            Maybe you ought to take a bit more time to prove your point?

                            I have before explained already why I think the RARA word and calling anyone that was not something I would do.
                            Maybe you can find that also.

                            Maybe it will be clear then why I think that to accuse me of calling anyone "a RARA" is absurd?

                            Comment


                            • A fact is a fact is a fact. It is not tainted by source.

                              Totally agree with Quietann. Keep it local. "Local" might have responded better in the OP situation.

                              There is no horse meat market here in America. Most if not all are raised for personal ownership and use. Even those that work for a living (race horse, NYC carriage horse) are for using not eating. How they roast up on a plate is not the goal of their US breeding.

                              IMO over breeding and miss-management (the mustangs) is what leads to an American "need" for slaughter en masse and shipments to Canada and Mexico.

                              We can and should do better locally.
                              from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                              Comment


                              • Bluey, really? OK you didn't say RARA. You said radical animal rights followers, activists...etc. Yes, you didn't directly call one person a RARA, you just labeled anyone who disagreed with you an extremist.

                                What is this then?
                                Every time we get an "action alert" from animal rights groups, as this story here, certain posters hurry here with that information, not realizing that gives them away as what that makes them, animal rights extremists and their followers.
                                Now in this instance you did intimate that the OP was an animal rights activist:
                                Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                Well, I didn't have the OP pegged as one of the few animal rights followers here, but I guess people do surprise.
                                Are you a politician? You're very good at deflecting and redirecting.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                                  Bluey, really? OK you didn't say RARA. You said radical animal rights followers, activists...etc. Yes, you didn't directly call one person a RARA, you just labeled anyone who disagreed with you an extremist.

                                  What is this then?

                                  Now in this instance you did intimate that the OP was an animal rights activist:


                                  Are you a politician? You're very good at deflecting and redirecting.
                                  So, what is it, did I call anyone "a RARA" or did I not?

                                  Guess who I think is good at redirecting?

                                  Hope that clears this for a bit?

                                  Back to the topic at hand.

                                  Does anyone yet know what the protocol is for canadian slaughter plants, when there is any kind of question about a horse brought to them and someone raising questions and if those reached those in charge before the horse was killed?

                                  There seem to be too many lose ends to this sad story.

                                  Comment


                                  • Bluey, quietann raises a couple of very good questions. Do you think that the current slaughter procedures is 100% humane, and, if not, what would you do to improve it and what is the best way to go about that?
                                    If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
                                    Desmond Tutu

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                      Big thanks to the "Com-RADS" (Common sense RADical thinkers).

                                      Where do I sign-up ComRAD??
                                      Your positive attitude and great sense of humor get you an automatic invitation to the group, ComRAD hurelycane!

                                      And yet another example:

                                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                      What is interesting to me is that anyone would think banning slaughter makes any sense at all, other than crazy animal rights extremists.
                                      It's no secret I'm all for banning slaughter and I'm not a crazy animal rights extremist.
                                      Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                                      http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                                      http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                        wrong!

                                        You only are showing that Bluey - rightfully so - calls people out on their sources.

                                        I did not see a RARA in there anywhere to begin with.

                                        On the same token the same can also be deducted the other way around. I have lost count as to how many times people say the same things about Bluey's sources.

                                        But unlike Bluey, those other lovely people tend to imply that because she is anti RARA and anti ban, she also abuses horses, sells them to the horrible meat man and kicks puppies with gusty while drowning a few kittens.

                                        Sorry, you still lose that 'argument'

                                        You repeat what is really propaganda swill on a constant basis you are subject to having your motives scrutinized.

                                        The burden of proof is on you.
                                        and in the case of Bluey the name caller you failed.
                                        miserably.
                                        Oh Lord help me, it is like a bad car accident, I just cannot look away.
                                        Bluey has no sources, just repeatedly saying over and over, that is what I was told by someone I knew who worked in a slaughter house.
                                        PEople have made good sense, and you all shoot them down,
                                        I cannot believe you are so obtuse as to not see that she claims the same thing over and over for years, has no proof, only says, Thank you, and adds a winking smiley. Let's face it, you folks are right, and all of us, who are not totally against humane slaughter are totally off base and you can do nothing but shut us out. Truth. It is really old, pointless and tiresome. and it is sure not helping horses one bit. I know these words are wasted.

                                        Comment


                                        • No no no - it isn't because she is anti RARA, I don't think any of us thinks the Real RARA's are worth following - it's because always always always if we don't agree with her - the rest of us are RARA's.

                                          Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                          wrong!

                                          You only are showing that Bluey - rightfully so - calls people out on their sources.

                                          I did not see a RARA in there anywhere to begin with.

                                          On the same token the same can also be deducted the other way around. I have lost count as to how many times people say the same things about Bluey's sources.

                                          But unlike Bluey, those other lovely people tend to imply that because she is anti RARA and anti ban, she also abuses horses, sells them to the horrible meat man and kicks puppies with gusty while drowning a few kittens.

                                          Sorry, you still lose that 'argument'

                                          You repeat what is really propaganda swill on a constant basis you are subject to having your motives scrutinized.

                                          The burden of proof is on you.
                                          and in the case of Bluey the name caller you failed.
                                          miserably.
                                          The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                                          H. Cate

                                          Comment

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