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  • I don't really understand the insistence on this, as I said, language is changeable...

    "Let’s look more closely at renewable
    natural resources. They are the ones
    that can grow again.
    Trees are a good
    example. If cut down, they can regrow
    from seeds and sprouts. Animals are
    another example. Baby animals are born and
    grow up. They replace older animals that die
    ."



    Organic resources, both plant and animal-based, provide rich and renewable resources for both human consumption,…”

    I made the assumption that organic was natural, too. Yes, could be an error on my part.

    Animals, birds, fish and
    plants are natural resources as well….
    Renewable resources are those natural resources such
    as trees, water, sun and wind that can be replenished at
    about the same rate at which they are used
    .”


    I'll give you the last one- does not state animals are natural renewable resource; they are simply included under the Province division of Natural Resources.

    Comment


    • A study that shows Bute is a carcinogen

      http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/?objectid=0...65B607853F9C9B

      And a bunch more:
      http://www.google.com/search?q=natio...phenylbutazone
      Last edited by Angela Freda; Apr. 2, 2013, 10:15 PM. Reason: add link
      Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

      http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

      Comment


      • February 28, 2003

        The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing an order prohibiting the extralabel use of phenylbutazone animal and human drugs in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older. FDA is issuing this order based on evidence that extralabel use of phenylbutazone in these dairy cattle will likely cause an adverse event in humans.

        http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm124078.htm

        While some may call the FDA a RaRa propaganda organization.... I think most would disagree.
        Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

        http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

        Comment


        • You know, To Alagirl and Bluey and to anyone else that I may have offended.
          I apologize. I found myself slipping into the same mode that I see you fall into.
          It is very destructive and helps no one. Try to be kind to each other.

          Comment


          • If all that is true, there's another red flag. Two thirds of the people don't want it but it gets pushed through anyway??? No discussion and no debates allowed?? What ever happened to our rights as voters??
            geez Bluey and you worry about PETA and HSUS taking away our rights??
            I swear you're looking in the wrong,direction.

            Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
            of toxic drugs, most notably phenylbutazone (“bute”), a common painkiller. While harmless to horses, bute is a carcinogen according to the National Toxicology Program. Could this be the reason why Oklahoma lawmakers are so anxious to ship it out of the U.S. to foreign consumers?

            In minute amounts, bute can cause fatal bone marrow depression diseases, cancer and hypersensitivity reactions in humans, according to researchers. Children are particularly at risk. For that reason, the FDA has banned it in horses slaughtered for human consumption, along with a long list of other commonly-administered drugs, some of which cause miscarriages and other serious health risks. No safe levels have been determined and no withdrawal times set.


            http://www.forbes.com/sites/vickerye...ughter-bill/2/
            The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
            H. Cate

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              Originally posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
              So what is the work around to that problem?

              Hire a known bidder as agent?
              Approach one of the KB perhaps to buy or bid for you?

              Guarantee them a sale after the sale at XX plus 20% or 50%?
              Actually, I went with a friend once who wanted a specific horse. She did approach the ONE kb and said she wanted such horse #. She asked him to bid for her because she did not want to get in between the kbs... he did and sold her the horse for another $50 after the sale. no drama.
              IMO, it was bad luck that that particular kb was not approached or maybe he was not there...

              Comment


              • Well, Forbes' author isn't really the source of the info she is commenting on, which is why I linked to the FDA...

                I have read the contraindications and side effects on drugs that ARE approved and there are doozies there, too. The choice is always for the least harm for an effective does (supposedly); which is why bute is not allowed for DIRECT USE in humans anymore.

                Not trying to negate your information, simply observing that studies of secondary collateral damge to lets say carnivores or omnivores may show different results-for better or worse. At the moment regulators are arring on the safe side.


                example:
                ...may rarely increase the risk for a heart attack or stroke. The risk may be greater if you have heart disease or increased risk for heart disease (for example, due to smoking, family history of heart disease, or conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes), or with longer use. This drug should not be taken right before or after heart bypass surgery (CABG).

                This drug may infrequently cause serious (rarely fatal) bleeding from the stomach or intestines. This effect can occur without warning at any time while taking this drug. Older adults may be at higher risk for this effect.

                … rare but serious side effects: black/tarry stools, persistent stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, chest/jaw/left arm pain, shortness of breath, unusual sweating, confusion, weakness on one side of the body, slurred speech, sudden vision changes.

                This drug may rarely cause serious (possibly fatal) liver disease. Get medical help right away if you have any symptoms of liver damage, including: dark urine, persistent nausea/vomiting/loss of appetite, stomach/abdominal pain, yellowing eyes/skin.
                A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, get medical help right away if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), severe dizziness, trouble breathing.
                This is not a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.



                -this is for Children's Ibuprofen from WebMD

                Comment


                • Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
                  Actually, I went with a friend once who wanted a specific horse. She did approach the ONE kb and said she wanted such horse #. She asked him to bid for her because she did not want to get in between the kbs... he did and sold her the horse for another $50 after the sale. no drama.
                  IMO, it was bad luck that that particular kb was not approached or maybe he was not there...
                  Thank you for posting a plan that worked!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
                    Actually, I went with a friend once who wanted a specific horse. She did approach the ONE kb and said she wanted such horse #. She asked him to bid for her because she did not want to get in between the kbs... he did and sold her the horse for another $50 after the sale. no drama.
                    IMO, it was bad luck that that particular kb was not approached or maybe he was not there...
                    That is what I used to do, because I am hard of hearing and can't really tell where the bidding is going.
                    Some traders are nice and help you.
                    They also tell you which horse that looks interesting not to bid on, they know something bad about it, like goes lame or is a bit too crazy to retrain, they know some that already tried that.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                      You know, To Alagirl and Bluey and to anyone else that I may have offended.
                      I apologize. I found myself slipping into the same mode that I see you fall into.
                      It is very destructive and helps no one. Try to be kind to each other.
                      duly noted

                      Apology accepted.

                      No wait, what?


                      nice touch! Slipping one in under the belt!

                      It really would work better, that sorry sayin, if you really meant it.

                      Originally posted by BigMama1
                      Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                      GNU Terry Prachett

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
                        Actually, I went with a friend once who wanted a specific horse. She did approach the ONE kb and said she wanted such horse #. She asked him to bid for her because she did not want to get in between the kbs... he did and sold her the horse for another $50 after the sale. no drama.
                        IMO, it was bad luck that that particular kb was not approached or maybe he was not there...
                        How do they do the paperwork for that? I understand the KB will pay the auction house, but do many of them also carry around bills of sale in case they decide to resell right then and there? Your friend is lucky she found a KB who kept his markup price low. Good for her.
                        Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                        http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                        http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by quietann View Post
                          Yes. The question I asked wasn't *easy*, but Bluey apparently knows quite a lot about horse slaughter, and it would have been nice to get an idea of what she thinks.

                          Simple: What would you (Bluey, or anyone else who is OK with it at least in theory, as am I) do to make horse slaughter more humane
                          I think that's the question we would all like to see answered, but I'm afraid we never will. Perhaps because you have to admit that there are flaws in the system as it is now.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            Originally posted by jenm View Post
                            How do they do the paperwork for that? I understand the KB will pay the auction house, but do many of them also carry around bills of sale in case they decide to resell right then and there? Your friend is lucky she found a KB who kept his markup price low. Good for her.
                            There was no special paperwork at the time. She just paid him. There was no drug withdrawal or ID at the time. I am sure they figure it out because you can still buy a horse from a willing kb after a sale. That particular guy is known to work with no drama rescues. He does have a fairly large lot north of here where I have known people to go and buy horses from him.
                            I also know that one time there was a nice well trained horse (with letter from family) that he got. When the rescuers tried to buy her back from him, he promised them he had a family for her and she would not go to slaughter. If the family did not want her, then he would call them back.
                            He let them know she did go to a home! He is a "good" guy doing a lousy job! That's why I am surprised something did not get worked out with him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
                              I also know that one time there was a nice well trained horse (with letter from family) that he got. When the rescuers tried to buy her back from him, he promised them he had a family for her and she would not go to slaughter. If the family did not want her, then he would call them back.
                              He let them know she did go to a home! He is a "good" guy doing a lousy job! That's why I am surprised something did not get worked out with him.
                              Too bad they can't all be like that and too bad BSB got picked up by the wrong one.
                              Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                              http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                              http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                              Comment


                              • The whole thing is sad, esp. because this horse was wanted and he was sold down the river by greedy people and then he was killed as a power play when he could have easily been sold for a higher profit than his meat would have brought. Of course they used him for meat, otherwise they would have sold him for profit or been able to produce either him or records that he was killed/rendered. The fact that they are REFUSING to produce anything at all certainly doesn't make them look anything but guilty. They didn't care about drugs in his system because they process racehorses all the time. They KNOW they are full of drugs.

                                Last I looked NYC was in the northeast. In fact right close by some of the most devastated Sandy hit areas. Just sayin...

                                Thanks to AngFreda and others for posting that Bute was BANNED from use in humans (FIRST) because it had some devastating side effects. They know that bute residue is stored in the muscle and does not leave, thus no withdrawal times. Because those are the primary meat cuts, MUSCLES. And it is not worth the risk to humans to allow tainted meat to be (legally) added to the food chain. Of course horse slaughter has been doing just that since bute was invented.

                                Bute can have bad side effects in horses too but because they have much shorter life spans naturally than humans most of them are not an issue. The main issue is stomach problems which we are all well aware of. That's a problem with any NSAID.

                                I don't have a problem with eating horses if they are raised for slaughter, not shipped across a continent in inappropriate shipping containers, handled without abuse, dispatched quickly and painlessly and then I don't care what happens to the body. But because all that other stuff is EXPENSIVE, you won't see humane horse slaughter anytime soon. Other animal slaughterhouses are a bit wanting too but at least they are designed FOR those animals. But even most of them refuse to improve them to be more humane because it costs too much.
                                Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

                                Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

                                Comment


                                • I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but if it has, it bears repeating:

                                  Because bute was taken off the market for human use more than a decade ago due to its side effects, no long-term studies have been or will be conducted. No safe levels were set by food-safety regulators. Therefore, the drug was banned for all animals intended for human consumption, and there is no withdrawal time.

                                  As the USDA’s Food Safety and Inspection Service stated back in 2007, “phenylbutazone is considered to be one of the most toxic non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. It is not approved for use in food animals and there are no regulatory limits, such as acceptable daily intake or safe concentration for meat, established by the Food and Drug Administration. Therefore, the presence of any amount of phenylbutazone in food animal tissue will be considered a violation and likely to be unsafe for human consumption.”


                                  bute poses serious health hazards, according to a growing list of veterinarians as well as the authors of “Association of Phenylbutazone Usage With Horses Bought for Slaughter: A Public-Health Risk.”

                                  Published in Food and Chemical Toxicology, the research study states that the health hazards associated with bute in horse meat aren’t dose related.


                                  I'd like to get my hands on that paper.

                                  Edited to add: oops, never mind, found it!

                                  http://www.horseprotection.it/docs/phenylbutazone.pdf

                                  I'm on a business trip and bored, lol.
                                  Last edited by jenm; Apr. 3, 2013, 01:41 AM. Reason: added info
                                  Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                                  http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                                  http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                    duly noted

                                    Apology accepted.

                                    No wait, what?


                                    nice touch! Slipping one in under the belt!

                                    It really would work better, that sorry sayin, if you really meant it.

                                    Gee no one can win. Happy train wrecking. I was being sincere. Guess that is not good enough either because you seem to not be able to agree you have fallen into the trap as well. I sure have never given as good as others.
                                    So as Bluey thinks I said ( Read the question marks after the sentence bluey) I'm "Staying out of it"

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                      Yes, it does not concern you if the guy next door sells his nondescript horse to a dealer in cheap horses.

                                      it is non of your business.

                                      Simply put.

                                      However, those who have no grasp of basic economy should pretty please stop meddling before we all suffer dearly.
                                      I happen to think it IS my business. I have an undergraduate degree in economics along with my master's in international relations, and my first job out of law school was in the International Trade practice of a top law firm. So why don't you tell me what it is about "basic" economics that I don't understand. I'm a quick study. And, for the record, I AM against horse slaughter.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Discobold View Post
                                        I happen to think it IS my business. I have an undergraduate degree in economics along with my master's in international relations, and my first job out of law school was in the International Trade practice of a top law firm. So why don't you tell me what it is about "basic" economics that I don't understand. I'm a quick study. And, for the record, I AM against horse slaughter.
                                        what another person does with his/her property is non of your business, lest you want them sticking their nose in yours.

                                        Since you are so fantastically schooled in economics, do explain why you think the lower tier of the economic model falling away is a good thing!

                                        And since this is not international relations (but you should be familiar with the term 'trade deficit then' i think you need to get back to the drawing board and think things through. 'Let's assume' is the basis of economic theory....


                                        Oh wait. There is precedent for that thought model of the lower tier falling away.
                                        Buyers changed their buying patterns, left many areas without the bottom buyer and low and behold the local market collapsed....

                                        right. did not happen were you live....


                                        Now, let's assume that you get your wish and there are actually no more low end horses to buy so the KB don't have a market....
                                        Originally posted by BigMama1
                                        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                        GNU Terry Prachett

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
                                          Well, Forbes' author isn't really the source of the info she is commenting on, which is why I linked to the FDA...

                                          I have read the contraindications and side effects on drugs that ARE approved and there are doozies there, too. The choice is always for the least harm for an effective does (supposedly); which is why bute is not allowed for DIRECT USE in humans anymore.

                                          Not trying to negate your information, simply observing that studies of secondary collateral damge to lets say carnivores or omnivores may show different results-for better or worse. At the moment regulators are arring on the safe side.


                                          example:
                                          ...may rarely increase the risk for a heart attack or stroke. The risk may be greater if you have heart disease or increased risk for heart disease (for example, due to smoking, family history of heart disease, or conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes), or with longer use. This drug should not be taken right before or after heart bypass surgery (CABG).

                                          This drug may infrequently cause serious (rarely fatal) bleeding from the stomach or intestines. This effect can occur without warning at any time while taking this drug. Older adults may be at higher risk for this effect.

                                          … rare but serious side effects: black/tarry stools, persistent stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, chest/jaw/left arm pain, shortness of breath, unusual sweating, confusion, weakness on one side of the body, slurred speech, sudden vision changes.

                                          This drug may rarely cause serious (possibly fatal) liver disease. Get medical help right away if you have any symptoms of liver damage, including: dark urine, persistent nausea/vomiting/loss of appetite, stomach/abdominal pain, yellowing eyes/skin.
                                          A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, get medical help right away if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), severe dizziness, trouble breathing.
                                          This is not a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.



                                          -this is for Children's Ibuprofen from WebMD
                                          That's very true, but on the other hand, one would take ibuprofen to treat a medical condition and not as a residue in our food.

                                          Comment

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