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Ac4h rescue

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  • #21
    Originally posted by spacytracy View Post
    Based on the abundance of negative experiences, I wouldn't use them.
    I have actually only heard of one, maybe two people complaining....
    and one was a fruit bat...

    But they got horses closer to me, I don't see myself getting any from her....


    • #22
      Originally posted by Snowflake View Post
      I have had a good experience with them. No complaints and I do hope they are able to continue to do what they do. I think the overall premise with AC4H and working with the KBs is "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer." They do have a working relationship with the KB that is mutually beneficial. They keep as many horses as they can from going to slaughter and the KB makes a profit (which is all they want in the end - regardless of what happens to the horse). A lot of people don't agree with this and wished AC4H would take an anti-KB stance and attempt to shut them down. But the people at AC4H have found that this arrangement keeps the lines of communication open and actually allows them to help more horses than to try to intercept horses that are being silently shuffled off by the KB. They do protect the identities of the KBs to keep the RaRa's from driving them into hiding the horses that they buy for slaughter. A lot of people don't like it, but it's a working model for all parties involved. And as with any horse business - there are going to be bumps in the road and some negative feedback but overall, I do feel that Rick and Christy are doing the best they can to try to keep peace and help the greatest number of horses.
      I think that people who have actually gotten horses through Christy have said that they had good experiences.

      If you don't like her, then don't contribute to her. But people who have dealt with Christy should give their opinions, good or bad, and let people make their own decisions.


      • #23
        Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
        I have actually only heard of one, maybe two people complaining....
        and one was a fruit bat...

        But they got horses closer to me, I don't see myself getting any from her....
        so you intend to buy a horse? That's a shock.


        • #24
          AC4H is not for everyone. Some people have no issues with them, some people like them and some people loathe them. It's all personal opinion.

          AC4H is not a good match for you if:
          *You're not looking to buy a horse
          *You're not looking to adopt a horse
          *You're not planning on donating (not hypothetical donating for the sake of having a side in an online argument )
          *You'd prefer a trial period
          *You'd prefer a buy-back or return clause
          *You're not experienced in fast equine evaluations
          *You require a horse to fit a very detailed criteria
          *You're not able or willing to handle/train a horse with possible issues
          *You're not able or willing to send a horse for training if it's not exactly how you require it to be
          *You're not able or willing to deal with an animal with possible issues making it unrideable
          *You refuse to purchase or adopt to anyone who has a working relationship with a kill buyer
          *You refuse to purchase a dealer owned animal/you dislike dealers

          AC4H is a decent option for those people who don't fit the above.

          AC4H does have a rescue.
          AC4H does also have a Broker Owned supported business which does make that side of the business a dealer that deals with a dealer.
          The 2 sides of the business are not the same.
          The dealer/broker owned side of the business does use some of that income to fund the rescue. This is no different than if a rescue owner had any other outside job, this outside job just happens to also involve horses that people see as "rescued" from slaughter. Or from being dealer owned.
          There may or may not be excess comingling of funds between the two, however independent audits have not turned anything illegal up.

          I do have an AC4H horse here. At this time I personally would not have any issues with purchasing again through AC4H. I have zero interest in the "bailing" or "approved home" aspects, for me I'd only ever be interested in a direct purchase with AC4H acting as dealer agent. I have never expected any animal to be "exactly as advertised"...mainly because it's an animal. Not a machine. I have no issues if the animal gets here with training or behavior problems, I don't mind working with problem animals and am able to do so myself. I also have no issues with dealers and for full disclosure if I bought another AC4H horse it would most likely be to pinhook. I also understand that not everyone feels the same way. I don't understand the "I hate anyone who doesn't do things the way I want them to, even if I won't do it myself!" attitude. But then I'm a realist and know that horse people are rarely rational. (self included of course)
          You jump in the saddle,
          Hold onto the bridle!
          Jump in the line!


          • #25
            I think MB pretty much said it all.

            There are some good horses who can be had for cheap prices if you know what you are doing. And if you realize that it's not the kill buyers who are the problem. It's the people who send their unwanted horses off to auction who are the problem.

            Shop wisely, look carefully, and make up your own mind if you want to deal with Christy and/or the kill buyers.


            • #26
              Originally posted by tidy wabbit View Post
              so you intend to buy a horse? That's a shock.
              I intend to do a lot of things


              • #27
                Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
                AC4H does have a rescue.
                AC4H does also have a Broker Owned supported business which does make that side of the business a dealer that deals with a dealer.
                The 2 sides of the business are not the same.
                The dealer/broker owned side of the business does use some of that income to fund the rescue. This is no different than if a rescue owner had any other outside job, this outside job just happens to also involve horses that people see as "rescued" from slaughter. Or from being dealer owned.
                There may or may not be excess comingling of funds between the two, however independent audits have not turned anything illegal up.
                I don't think the broker side of AC4H could be considered an "outside job" - it's just one facet of their overall business. Kind of like how CANTER has adoption program horses and also advertises trainer owned horses still at the track. I think what gets people "worried" is that AC4H handles the whole transaction - they take and hold the money, making it cloudy to people how much they're really getting out of the deal. Additionally a lot of people don't like the idea of enriching the KB - especially since regardless of how many horses are found homes via AC4H, he's still filling trucks with horses to go to Canada. I think there's some concern that basically it's now just propping up another wing to the KB's business, so he's making twice the income while not stemming the tide of horses going to slaughter at all.

                I have mixed feelings - I think even if other horses are being sent, to the horse being saved that makes a world of difference. I do feel a little uncomfortable with the business model - I think the type of thing they do at Camelot is a little more transparent (at least in that case if you are interested in a horse, you deal directly with the person who has the horse. You're not making payment to a third party. Ownership in the interim is also clear - you pay, it's yours, you can go pick it up.)

                That said, me not feeling totally comfortable with their model doesn't mean it's shady. From looking at the 990s, etc, I think the numbers add up (a lot of people think they don't, because they look like such huge numbers, but if donations to buy horses are income, and then them transferring the payments to the broker is expenses... well I think it makes sense. I don't think anybody at the rescue is getting rich, though I think the brokers have hit on a nice side business for themselves). And as always we must remember that just because an organization is a "nonprofit" that does not mean it can't make money. In fact it should make money. Some people don't like any rescue that seems to have made a good deal of money, but in a lot of cases that shows good management. The rules for a nonprofit are different from a regular business, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't make money.

                Ultimately though, I think there are horses who have gotten a second chance. And there are a lot of people who have been happy with their broker horse purchase and how it went. I also know people who were extremely unhappy with how it went (someone trying to recover a horse she gave away to what she thought was a good home, in one case). I think if you're interested in a horse you see on their broker pages, the best thing to do is read all their fine print and decide whether or not you're comfortable with how it works, online drama aside.
                "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                My CANTER blog.


                • #28
                  Sounds reasonable to me.

                  Is it for everyone? No.

                  Is it a decent fit for some folks? Yes.

                  And although it's a short and fast evaluation, at least with AC4H there's a short clip of the animal being handled and/or ridden. Is it 100% accurate in terms of a full evaluation? Nope. But it's a definite plus.

                  I could go to NH auction and check out/bid myself and save a couple hundred. However, it's not a savings really because I'd have to hire someone to care/check on the horses for the day and the fuel to get there and back, so it's a wash if not an actual savings for someone like me. Plus the location differences means a huge difference in prices anyway. If the horse sells when run through the auction for $250 and the dealer buys it and wants to double the flip price to $500 and AC4H does an eval, video and then arranges coggins, etc and that adds another $100-$150 or so including vet fee? That $650 paid is at least half price of what it would be marketed for here. More likely it would be 1/3 to 1/4. The horse I bought for $650 I could have flipped the month after it got here for more than 4x that.

                  Is there a possibility that AC4H makes more "kickback" or commission on each sale? Of course. Actually if there isn't a bit more than what's generally said I'd think they were wasting their time. I don't expect anyone to work for free. Or for $1.50 an hour. Do trainers get a lot more commission than they let on to buyers or sellers? Ummm, yeah. Heck today I went to a mall (which I hate) to shop (which I also hate) for a couple household items. I had been to a bunch of other places, none had exactly what I was looking for. Color, size, materials were just not right. I found exactly what I wanted, drapes in the exact size, color and material I needed. They were $____ per panel. Do I know what JCPenney is making on that? Or what the manufactorer charged JCPenney to obtain them before JCP marked them up? Nope. Do I care? Not when it's just what I wanted at a price I was willing to pay.

                  So I'm not going to be upset that the dealer or AC4H is making a profit just because what they're selling is cute and alive. If it's what I want for a price I'm willing to pay...and still a hella lot cheaper than I'd find it here...

                  I do think too many people purchase and/or "bail" horses they cannot really afford due to the worry of possible slaughter. The can see that animal and once they see it...cannot stand the idea of that one going across the border.
                  You jump in the saddle,
                  Hold onto the bridle!
                  Jump in the line!


                  • #29
                    I agree with what MB said.

                    I also have a horse I got from the broker pages through AC4H. I didn’t plan to get a horse and I wasn’t looking for one, I just occasionally look through their pages (and the Camelot pages too for that matter). I had been horseless for two years, and this one just really struck me.

                    The way I look at it is the horse is in the pipeline. Take it or leave it. The KB doesn’t care--he has the horse and he is going to get his pound of flesh one way or the other. The only one it makes a difference to is the horse.

                    For those that say “go to the auction yourself” might work if you have the time and stomach lining to go. Personally, I wouldn’t be able to handle it if I went. I have had a hard enough time adopting dogs from the SPCA. I still have nightmares about the sad dogs I couldn’t bring home.

                    Can't save them all.
                    \"Tomorrow is a new day with no mistakes in it.\" Anne of Green Gables


                    • #30
                      If you are willing to follow AC4H's procedures, it's pretty easy. Christy is not that good with communication, particularly written communication (her lack of punctuation often makes it hard to follow what she's trying to say, for one thing). I'd like to see more clarity on expenses and how funds are handled, but the issue seems largely to be poor communication skills and lack of time for, and a lower priority placed on communicating than for any nefarious purposes. That said, I'm not sure I'm comfortable donating to their bail collections or to their overall rescue, as I think their financial dealings could be clearer, but I wouldn't mind buying through the broker program.

                      The one big blow-up some time ago that I know of was a special snowflake that insisted that Christy MUST give up her day off (a Sunday) to accommodate the buyer IMMEDIATELY. Had the woman managed to follow the written steps, it would have been no drama.

                      I knew five or six horses at the barn I used to board at that were from the AC4H Broker program. All horses were as billed by the AC4H description and were good horses for what they were purchased to do, at very reasonable prices. Every horse was accurately described in the very brief description that they give (the owners sent me copies of the photos/info posted for each horse). My feeling is that AC4H can and does give a pretty good idea of a horse based on their short evaluation and you can get a fair initial impression, for as far as that goes.

                      I once called Christy to ask about one of the broker horses for a friend's husband (the friend asked me to make the call, she wasn't comfortable using English on the phone with a stranger). The description posted online sounded like he might be a good fit. After hearing that we were looking for a hubby horse, Christy was very clear that this particular horse would not work well and discouraged us from going any further. When she explained what he was like, and I spoke with the person who had ridden the horse for the photos/video and got his perspective, I agreed with her assessment. She could have EASILY encouraged us to get that horse based on the description posted and let us find out later that the horse would be too much for the rider. A private seller might not have been as up-front about it and pushed for the sale.

                      Personally, I don't live close enough to drive to NH on possibly multiple occasions to see if they happen to have a horse that I might be interested in. The service that AC4H provides of posting photos, brief details, short videos is the only way I personally could realistically get a horse via New Holland. Some time ago, AC4H's *fee* (donation) charged to the buyer was $25 fee per horse for providing the photos and handling the transaction with the broker, but I don't know if that is still the same. I have no idea if they get a kick-back from the broker on top of that.


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                        I have actually only heard of one, maybe two people complaining....
                        and one was a fruit bat...

                        But they got horses closer to me, I don't see myself getting any from her....
                        Maybe a couple more than one or two.



                        • #32
                          Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                          Maybe a couple more than one or two.

                          You don't count.
                          You'd complain if they hung you with a new rope...


                          • #33
                            When I first moved to this area I went to see one of their horses. Christy laughed at me for considering a 16.3h TB for a jumper, she told me I didn't know anything about horses as I wanted a TB to jump. According to her a clean legged TB is for flat work only. Hmmm.

                            She also went onto tell me about how other people slate her all the time because they are jealous of all that she has achieved. It was all too crazy, so I walked away.

                            After that I came home and did some research, google AC4H's and it will take you a week to read all the negative experiences and scam reports.

                            Since then Christy will show up across the horse boards, posting under different names, pretending it's not her.

                            Entirely too much crazy for me.