• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Where in my boarding contract can I find...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Where in my boarding contract can I find...

    Who is liable if BO gets hurt while handling one of my horses?

    A little bit of back story.

    The woman who owns the property where I board my horses is very nice, and I think that her intentions are good, how ever she drinks the NH kool-aid (This is NOT about that, really, and I don't want it this thread to turn into a NH train wreck... please!) I could care less how she handles her own horses, and for the most part all three are very well behaved. However she is a bit nervous around Willow. I understand that, and have tried to make a point to be around to bring her in/out and feed. We live 4 miles away, so it's easy.

    I was talking to her the other night, and the BO mentioned that she was doing some of her NH stuff with Willow the mornings that I couldn't be there. Working with her 15/20 minutes before she turned her out. I politely mentioned that she wasn't so good with that kind of stuff, and if she was nervous I would make an effort to be out there every morning to put her out. I really don't mind. She's really not bad, just a little bit high headed and snorty, but I understand that she can make people nervous. BO insisted that she was fine, not nervous around her. She seemed to think that it was helping... but I can tell that it's not so much. Willow doesn't really hide her feelings.

    Not only am I a little bit miffed that she was working with my mare without any permission from me (this has happened a few times with feed changes... but all was resolved with polite conversation) but I'm worried that Willow is going to say enough is enough one morning. I don't want to be liable if BO gets hurt while handling Willow.

    I've poured over my boarding contract, but can't find anything about it, only that she is not liable should I get hurt on the property.

    Any ideas?

  • #2
    Normally, the BO is covered by her OWN insurances, both farm and major medical. I can't imagine a scenario in which she could come after you unless you withheld a major piece of information about your horse--like it had killed a groom at the last place you boarded! I wouldn't be worried about that aspect at all.

    However, if somebody started doing their interpretation of some brand of NH on my horse without permission, now THAT would make me BALLISTIC!

    The way I would handle this is to show her, actually demonstrate by doing it your way, the way Willow is USED to being handled, led, fed, etc. and convince her that she'll have the fewest problems doing things that way. Tell her that if she has problems doing it like that, you want to know immediately.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      That's what I'm hoping. Maybe I should just ask her.

      The first week that the girls were there, there were a lot of liberties taken with my horses (including a sudden farrier trip to pull hind shoes on my TB that I didn't hear about until after the fact...) but I had a long conversation with her and things seemed to be resolved, except for the whole working Wills in the morning.

      I have shown her how I go about things. When I first went to look at the farm, it was with full disclaimer that Willow could be a handful and that I was okay with it if she didn't want to deal with the mare. When they got there and got settled in, I went through everything and she seemed comfortable with the routine...then I heard about this. I am perfectly open to any technique that will help make my horses better citizens, however this is not helping and I worry that she is going to get hurt.

      I plan on having a chat with her about it, and if we cannot resolve the issues, the horses will be moved right away. If she's covered under her personal insurance, and she won't be able to come after me, than I'll sleep a LOT better.

      Thank you!

      Comment


      • #4
        I think you either need to be at the barn to handle the horse yourself, or you need to find a new barn.

        It sounds to me like the BO is taking a lot of liberties with your horse that she should not be. I would find it unacceptable for a BO to be "doing some of her NH stuff" on my horse without my permission.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gainer View Post
          I think you either need to be at the barn to handle the horse yourself, or you need to find a new barn.

          It sounds to me like the BO is taking a lot of liberties with your horse that she should not be. I would find it unacceptable for a BO to be "doing some of her NH stuff" on my horse without my permission.
          Truly. I don't see a difference between this and deciding to teach her jumping or WP or to lie down and roll over without your permission. Training someone else's horse without the owner's knowledge is just totally over the line anywhere!

          Wondering if this BO has ever taken boarders before . . .

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            I agree.

            I really do like the facilities, and the closeness. I can honestly say that I've never had this kind of an issue before at a barn. The woman is very nice, and has been really accommodating to us... I really don't want to slam her. I was just looking for some info as to who would be liable if the horse hurt her, esp after I warned her. I have had full disclosure with everybody I've talked to about Willow and do not gloss over anything.

            Her resume is extensive, and in talking to her it sounded like she really knew her stuff which is why I decided to put the horses there. Perhaps I should have vetted her out further, but other than this issue, we've been pretty happy there.

            Comment


            • #7
              A thought, maybe the BO wouldn't come after you for damages if she were injured handling your horse, but could her insurance company do so??

              I'd have a cow, literally, if I found out someone was 'training' my horse in a way I don't care for. But, then again, I'm old-fashioned and don't believe in touching another's horse for love nor money, well, for payment money, but you get the drift. Sounds like the BO is sort of a newbie to horses??
              GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

              Comment


              • #8
                I just left a barn that sounds very similar. I am very happy to be out of there. My BO took liberties with my horse that resulted in hefty vet bills. If the place you board at is causing you to lose sleep it is probably not worth it.
                Impossible is nothing.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post
                  A thought, maybe the BO wouldn't come after you for damages if she were injured handling your horse, but could her insurance company do so??

                  I'd have a cow, literally, if I found out someone was 'training' my horse in a way I don't care for. But, then again, I'm old-fashioned and don't believe in touching another's horse for love nor money, well, for payment money, but you get the drift. Sounds like the BO is sort of a newbie to horses??
                  I honestly didn't think about that.... oh geeze.

                  I'm along the same line of thought. I understand corrections if a horse is being naughty. I have corrected others horses and had others correct mine, it's critical. I have never had anybody do anything quite this extensive though.

                  I have been fishing around for other boarding options, but to have them as close as they are here... the pickin's are... none.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would first make sure that any reasonably competent person could handle my horse for turnout. Then I would write an e-mail or letter to the BO thanking her for her interest but clearly stating that your horses should only be led in and out and not "trained" and that if there are any difficulties she is to notify you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think you need to be clear with the BO that she is not allowed to do her NH training with your horse under any circumstances. If she has any issue handling your horse to please call you can you will be there to handle the horse yourself. On a side note, you get liability insurance on your horse to cover damages it might inflict on someone else's property, I believe it also covers injury to other's up to a certain dollar amount. That aside, you need to make the BO understand while you appreciate her etc that the NH training of your horse is not to happen.
                      "My treasures do not chink or gleam, they glitter in the sun and neigh at night."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If the BO is injured and uses her insurance to obtain treatment, the insurance company WILL go after you whether the BO wants them to or not. They may not be successful, but they will try and it can be a headache even if you don't end up out of pocket for anything.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          How many times have we heard on here that NH is just good horsemanship sold to the koolaid drinkers with big expensive crap? ANYTIME someone handles a horse they are either training or untraining the horse. Why not see what she has been doing with the horse before passing judgement? It may turn out that you are both doing similar things.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am not comfortable with others "training" my horse, especially others with questionable skills. That would really irk me.
                            APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              I would be totally fine with the process if it were working. However I've witnessed the work being done, and it just screams that somebody is going to get hurt.

                              I really, really am open to anything that will make myself and my horses better.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Chancellor does have a point. If the BO were pitching rocks at your horse to get her to move away from the gate it would be an unacceptable activity. If a BO has to have a CTJ with a horse they aren't comfortable handling for whatever reason, usually, USUALLY as a group we defer to the BO.

                                I think the problem here is that this is a "training method" and you'd prefer not to have it used without your consent, ie you arent' contracting with the BO for training, just for board and you've already sort of tried to discuss this by asking if the BO is not comfortable handling your horse, and of course she is (says she is) but wants to experiment or something.
                                I can't speak to your liability. There shouldn't be any to you if her business is structured correctly, but we can't tell.
                                I do have some bad feelings about the communication issues you seem to have already. You may need to move on, good luck.
                                Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                                Incredible Invisible

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  I totally understand having to have a CTJ. Horses are horses and it happens.

                                  I only prefer that the training method not be used because it is clear to me that somebody is going to get hurt in the process.

                                  Knowing that her insurance company can come after me, regardless, is making me re-start my search for a new place with a bit more vigor, in the event that we can't get this taken care of and other liberties continue to be taken without my consent.
                                  Last edited by Superminion; Mar. 27, 2013, 01:24 PM. Reason: Added more.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    You may want to look into an equine personal liability policy, which is designed to protect you if your horses injure a third party party or damages someone's property. Technically, the barn owner is not really considered a "third party" because as a barn owner/manager she is knowingly taking on the risk of handling others' horses, but at least the policy would provide representation for you in case of a lawsuit, even if you are not responsible. Lots of companies offer them, usually under a couple hundred dollars for the year, and if you are a USEF member one of their memberships comes with the coverage, although I would check into the wording to see exactly how the coverage works.
                                    It's not about the color of the ribbon but the quality of the ride. Having said that, I'd like the blue one please!

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      I will look into that, drawstraws... thank you! I'm a member of both USEF and USDF so perhaps I'll be able to get some info from them.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Meh, the BO is a professional at what she does and any insurance company knows that.

                                        Also, I'm a bit on the BO's side here: The person handling the horse is ultimately responsible for his/her own safety. If the BO thinks your horse needs to be handled a certain way to keep her own body intact, you have to let her.

                                        That having been said, I think you are doing right, OP. Offer to handle your own mare... to learn what the BO wants in a polite horse and offer to make your mare into that model citizen your own way... or tell her that the NH stuff might be creating a worse equine citizen. You are within your rights to tell someone else you don't want them to train your horse.

                                        If you *have* told your BO how to be safe with your horse and asked her not to open a can of worms with the NH stuff, I think your tuckus is covered with respect to liability. If you are wiggy, put that in writing. After that, the BO getting hurt is on her ledger, not yours and anyone can see your good faith efforts to keep the BO safe.
                                        The armchair saddler
                                        Politically Pro-Cat

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X