• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Tennessee residents - please say no to the ag-gag bill

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Things will certainly become more testy, at least for a while. The AR folks are spending lots of money on new camera-equipped microdrones. That's right, they spend less than 2% of their begged income on actual animals, but are willing to layout their donors' funds to buy drones. They hope that they can access property with the drone which they cannot legally reach from the ground.
    Fortunately, one such drone was shot down in South Carolina in 2012. There will now be many new laws regarding the use of drones!
    It would be better for the animals if the AR zealots would quit worrying about conducting aerial or undercover surveillance, and start feeding their own animals!

    Comment


    • #42
      Being a witness is not a crime. Setting yourself in a position to be a witness is also not a crime. No one enticed McConnell or any of the cow-forkers to commit their crimes.

      These are crimes against livestock. Low priority stuff. Yet we want to now jail those that seek to gather the evidence to shut the criminals down?

      Maybe we should give them badges. Been done before.
      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

      Comment


      • #43
        "Photos provided by the animal rights group show the multicopter smoking on the ground, with its lithium polymer battery supply smoldering. Another photo shows the drone’s video camera smashed. The drone, dubbed “Angel,” was a Cinestar 8 octocopter estimated at $4,000."

        http://www.suasnews.com/2012/11/1971...r-fourth-time/

        Comment


        • #44
          Badges? Aren't some hsus members in jail because they were arriving at seizures with badges and patches they designed and made themselves? There is too much proof that the AR folks have fallen off the cliff. The badge thing has been done before and that got them arrested!!!!

          Comment


          • #45
            This report would make you laugh if it weren't so scary! Hurleycane, this is what happens when badges come into play!

            http://www.humanewatch.org/index.php...aux_swat_team/


            Oh by the way, the Allan Schwartz quoted in the above article really is the ex-husband of the director of DEFHR (Day's End Farm Horse Rescue in Maryland)

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
              "Photos provided by the animal rights group show the multicopter smoking on the ground, with its lithium polymer battery supply smoldering. Another photo shows the drone’s video camera smashed. The drone, dubbed “Angel,” was a Cinestar 8 octocopter estimated at $4,000."

              http://www.suasnews.com/2012/11/1971...r-fourth-time/
              flying a drone into a bird shoot...ah, gotta love it!

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                Being a witness is not a crime. Setting yourself in a position to be a witness is also not a crime. No one enticed McConnell or any of the cow-forkers to commit their crimes.

                These are crimes against livestock. Low priority stuff. Yet we want to now jail those that seek to gather the evidence to shut the criminals down?

                Maybe we should give them badges. Been done before.
                Instigating crimes is a crime, and withholding evidence is a crime...


                and good grief, considering on who is crying foul, seems it was high time that law was drawn up!

                Comment


                • #48
                  I remember an Ohio case where the brother of the self proclaimed Vet Tech who was part of the HS investigative team..used his badge to threaten those who disagreed with his sister and her buddies....jail time.

                  If all fairness he WAS a police officer however was abusing the badge. I read he was fired for sexual interference with a minor. He was also suspended for using his position of power during the seizure

                  The writer in Modern Arabians stated what he heard at the training seminar for AC and police officers. JUST DO IT. Don't worry about the lies. They can be "apologized out" later

                  The HSUS activist lawyer in New Hampshire who told attende"s (Ra'ra's) that THEY could use any excuse OR "claim" to gain access to any animals on private propertyi because the law could not do it without a warrant. They could then make their complaint against the owner THROUGH her or another HSUS lawyer so they would have their identity protected.

                  When one hears week after week "this is the WORST" case of abuse..and then we discover yet another false alarm..It has a two fold message...Listeners tune it out..and even law officials become jaded and refuse to act on bonifide abuse cases..
                  The Elephant in the room

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    How many times do we find a crime is committed and a year or so later a charge is brought or a criminal has his day in court? Justice takes time.

                    And look at all the cases of HPA violations against McConnell - were there any undercover law enforcement officials in McConnell's barn?

                    You all.... it is livestock.

                    Let us not use our tax dollars to round them up when motivated "agenda" folks can do the work for free.

                    Hey - are all Pivate Investigators being held to the same scrutiny? I wonder.
                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                      folks can do the work for free.

                      Hey - are all Pivate Investigators being held to the same scrutiny? I wonder.
                      http://www.bsis.ca.gov/forms_pubs/pi_fact.shtml

                      I am sure other states have similar requirements:
                      they can't go off willy-nilly.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Hurleycane,

                        In the bigger picture, it is not whether an animal is considered livestock, etc.
                        The point being missed is that these animals are owned by people who have rights. Too often, overzealous AR folks show up and trample the owners' rights. Then, they attempt to level charges.
                        The constitution protects us against such nonsense. To flippantly say that these 'pseudo' investigators shouldn't be held to the same standards as other investigators is a recipe for disaster.
                        Remember, we have proof that 'rescuers' withheld food from seized animals, dyed sections of hair to give the illusion of ribs, instructed people to lower their so-called body score(it turned out that all of these AR folks had no clue how to score an animal or that body score is irrelevant) and on and on.
                        They had their day and were growing quickly, but sanity is finally beginning to return. These AR zealots must be stopped in their tracks. And if they keep popping up on various boards, their challenge will be answered with facts! And facts always dumbfound them!

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                          No offense, Alagirl, but you're either being incredibly dense or deliberately obtuse in failing to understand what the issue is here. You LIVE in the South for God's sake, how are you not getting it that this is a problem?

                          Here's how the scenario is going to play out in Tennessee: Big Lick Trainer "A", who is drankin' buddies with District Attorney "B" and Big Lick Trainer "X" and lives next door to Deputy Sheriff "C", with whom he goes huntin' an' drankin' when he ain't pokin' TWH with electrified cattle prods or beatin' 'em over the haid, is going to get a tipoff from Big Lick Trainer "X's" assistant, via "X", that one of his grooms just... mayyyy... be shootin' a bit of unauthorized vid.

                          NOW do you see where we're going with this?? Or are you still missing it?

                          Here's what happens: Big Lick Trainer "A" calls his buddy Deputy Sheriff "C" and says "Mercy sakes alive, good buddy, I think I got me a LAHHHHVE one. What say you c'mon over here, son, and arrest this here feller so we can see what's on his phone cam? Well lookee here boys, he's sho' 'nuff got him some video that could get me 'rested 'n' thrown in jail... EXCEPT THAT WE NOW HAVE THIS LAW THAT MAKES THE WHISTLE-BLOWER INTO THE CRIMINAL IF HE IS IN POSSESSION OF SUCH VIDEO FOR LONGER THAN 48 HOURS AND DOESN'T TURN IT OVER."

                          Clear enough? Lord have mercy I hope so.
                          Trying to be insulting to southerners, or does it just come naturally?

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                            Being a witness is not a crime. Setting yourself in a position to be a witness is also not a crime. No one enticed McConnell or any of the cow-forkers to commit their crimes.

                            These are crimes against livestock. Low priority stuff. Yet we want to now jail those that seek to gather the evidence to shut the criminals down?

                            Maybe we should give them badges. Been done before.
                            Only if they see such abuse and do NOT act!! Allowing it to go on so they can get more footage SHOULD be criminal, just as it is for people!

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                              Let us not use our tax dollars to round them up when motivated "agenda" folks can do the work for free.
                              Having personally dealt with "motivated "agenda" folks can do the work for free" I do not recommend it.

                              You also state: "These are crimes against livestock." This is absolutely, categorically WRONG. All crimes are offenses against the peace and dignity of the State. You don't even need a defined victim in some circumstances (like insider trading).

                              Are they "low priority" in a state with one of the highest rates of meth manufacture in the country? Yes, they are. And they should be.

                              There is a vast well of ignorance about how the criminal justice process works and it's reflected in the advocacy of may of these "motivated people." If they hold PI licences then they must operate within the limits of that license. If they don't then they run the risk of civil and criminal penalties for trespass, invasion of privacy, harassment, vandalism, tortuous interference with contract, etc. That they were on a mission to prevent animal cruelty sounds good, but as often as not is a mere sham for some other purpose.

                              I've no love for Jackie, but I do have a great love for the Constitution and its protections. I'll not surrender them without a fight.

                              G.
                              Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Not that most who are posting on this thread care, but here are several viable reasons why the 24 hour reporting rule may be a problem. I'll be waiting on a reply from the 3 horsemen and the 4th on training wheels.

                                "Why are these provisions problematic? There are a few key reasons, but Big Ag doesn't choose to recognize them. A blog by the Animal Agriculture Alliance defending these "Farm Protection" bills (as the industry prefers to call them) suggests that if organizations (like the Humane Society of the United States, or HSUS, and Mercy for Animals) who have carried out undercover investigations "truly cared about animal welfare, then they wouldn't wait one second to report a valid issue to the proper authorities." These organizations, the commentator argues, would rather let their cameras roll for days or weeks, trading away law enforcement's ability to intervene early in cases of animal cruelty to create lengthy "propaganda" pieces.

                                This cynical view, however, ignores the important role that long-form undercover investigations play in combating animal cruelty and the common experience of whistleblowers within the food industry and beyond. Undercover video:

                                Motivates the public to take action
                                Provides a larger body of evidence for law enforcement, and
                                Protects the whistleblower
                                Preventing all of the above, mandatory reporting laws are simply wolves dressed in sheep's clothing.

                                Let's break these reasons down. First, longer-form investigative pieces compel the public to place direct pressure on violators to take action to prevent animal abuse. Case in point: late USDA veterinarian Dean Wyatt consistently raised concerns of humane handling violations at two processing plants, but his complaints weren't treated seriously by the government until undercover footage taken by HSUS at the plants was released, sparking public outrage and vindicating him. By then, however, he had been transferred, demoted and stigmatized for doing his job. Wyatt's case is one of many showing the routine practice of whistleblower retaliation that makes documenting wrongdoing via video recordings essential.

                                Second, documenting longer-form investigations provides law enforcement with a larger body of evidence to facilitate prosecution than a report of a single isolated incident. And law enforcement apparently needs all the help and encouragement it can get, as reports of animal cruelty rarely result in prosecution and conviction. According to a report issued by the Connecticut Office of Legislative Research, of the 1,369 animal cruelty cases brought in that state between 2004 and 2007, only 182 resulted in conviction. In most cases, the prosecutor decided not to prosecute.

                                Lastly, and perhaps most important, mandatory reporting laws like those proposed in Nebraska and New Hampshire are intended to, and will in fact, make performing and documenting these valuable longer-form investigations impossible. That's because, absent meaningful whistleblower protections for the workers required to report violations, which these bills don't provide, mandatory reporting requirements will make it easy for the company to isolate those who speak up and retaliate against them. If workers are forced to come forward with such evidence in a matter of hours, it eliminates the possibility of them working with outside organizations to both shield their identity and publicize the wrongdoing correctly."

                                http://www.huffingtonpost.com/food-i...b_2593152.html

                                And yes, it's from the Huffington Post, and yes, I'm a liberal...and proud of it.
                                Last edited by LauraKY; Mar. 28, 2013, 01:14 PM.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Udder nonsense!

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                    The HSUS has given notice that, in their next phase, they are going to concentrate on lobbying and trying to pass laws that further their agenda of eventually eliminating all uses of animals and that they will now be releasing an abuse video a month.

                                    :
                                    Link to this stmt/notice they released, please...

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      The problem is there is no protection for whistleblowers. Read the portion of the article I posted. It does seem reasonable until you consider some of the consequences of 24 hour reporting.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
                                        Udder nonsense!
                                        That's what my cow said!
                                        "Anti-intellect and marketing, pretty, pretty, who needs talent
                                        Crying eyes, we're so outnumbered, fight for the right to remain silent" Buck 65

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
                                          Udder nonsense!

                                          That is just what I was thinking thru all that, nonsense.

                                          Really, who will stand there and sit on those abuse videos for weeks, waiting for the dairy vote to come to the state docket and release it right before it and THINK that is fine?

                                          Right, nonsense.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X