• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Seven Bald Eagles Near Death After Eating Dead Horses

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    The article wasn't clear but maybe y'all shouldn't be so quick to jump on the horse owner. Stuff does happen. I once had a colt break its hock. I called the vet to come put him down and the backhoe guy to come bury him. Vet came and took care of colt but the backhoe guy had a mechanical problem and couldn't come until the next day. I put a tarp over the carcass and kept my dogs shut up until the horse was buried.
    I'm a second hand Vegan. Cows eat grass. I eat cows.


    • #42
      The problem might be that the renderer couldn't pick up the bodies soon enough. The last 2 times I had a horse put down, it was a week before the renderer got here. Because of water concerns they may not be allowed to bury or even compost.

      Originally posted by Sannois View Post
      Oh yeah, there is the responsible horse owner. Why the hell were they not picked up.
      I hope the heck they do fine the hell out of that owner.
      Praying for the rest of the magnificent birds!
      Cannot help but wonder if a Vet put the horses down. But most vets I think assume the horse owner will bury the animals or have them hauled away.
      The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
      H. Cate


      • #43
        Completely understand that crap happens and a renderer, backhoe, whatever might not have been able to get there in a timely fashion.

        That, however, does not absolve the owner from being proactive on keeping a thousand pounds of poison contained in some sort of way.
        You tarp it to keep the birds off. And if necessary, you go to the hardware store and pick up rolls of hard mesh and stake it down to try to keep other predators off. Tow rope from tractor or car and drag it into the garage if you have to. If it's going to be days...you do that. Don't care if it costs money. Don't care if it's a lot of labor.

        Because in the end, it's the *owners* responsibility to do all they can to prevent a half ton or more of poison from destroying everything that comes in contact with it. Leaving a chemical filled carcass outside/open is like tossing out steaks soaked in antifreeze. As sad as it is to lose the animal you loved...it's no longer that animal you loved and you can be sad all you need to be but you take care of that carcass asap.

        If you absolutely positively cannot properly dispose of 1000 lbs of poison, you don't chemically euthanize the animal. We can't have every choice we want without taking any responsibility for the outcome of that choice.

        It's not an option to leave it out because of any reason.
        You jump in the saddle,
        Hold onto the bridle!
        Jump in the line!


        • #44
          Originally posted by Lori B View Post
          This thread is another strong point in favor of euthanization of large animals via correctly placed gunshot. Probably the strongest point that can be made. \
          This was what I was thinking. That or bring back humane killers (essentially hand-held bolt guns.) No worries about toxic carcasses if you don't use poison.

          The "wanted the turkey" story is a little exaggerated. Franklin made a comment about it in a letter but it was never seriously considered. For starters, they're kind of silly-looking, but eagles have been a symbol of power since at least the Romans, and as the US had a choice of bald eagle or golden, they went with the one that was native to North America (golden eagles live pretty much everywhere.) ANY raptor, practically, is an opportunistic feeder. Heck, small songbirds will pick at carcasses for the fat.
          Author Page
          Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
          Steampunk Sweethearts


          • #45
            Originally posted by wildlifer View Post

            The owner will not be eligible for federal prosecution by USFWS unless they knowingly harmed the birds. If you harm protected species by accident and you report it, you will not get in trouble. However, since it sounds like the neighbour reported it, the owner may get a hand slap, although I rather doubt it as it can take some doing to get that particular agency to bring forward meaningful charges, especially in small scale case like this.
            You're right that there is no way that the owner would get hit with the highest penalty (okay, never say never), but the owner would potentially be subject to federal prosecution if they harmed a bald eagle, even unknowingly.

            The bald eagle is listed under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) and under the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act. Anyone who harms a species listed under MBTA, even unknowingly, is potentially subject to criminal penalties. Anyone who harms a species listed under the Eagle Act, even unknowingly, is potentially subject to civil penalties (anyone who knowingly causes harm to listed species are subject to criminal penalties).

            It is more common for farm owners to be charged with violations when they accidentally poison birds while misusing pesticides, rodenticides, or when attempting to poison predators, but some people have been prosecuted after they've improperly disposed of euthanized animals and caused bird injuries/deaths.


            • #46
              Publicity and education is one of the ways to help stop this sort of idiocy.

              Rat poison can also be poisonous to carrion when the sick rat gets picked up by a dog, coyote, etc.
              Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


              • #47
                In the last three years I have unfortunetly had to put down three horses..... all by chemical means by a vet. In two of the cases the backhoe came late the next day. The third case the ground was frozen so we had wait several days. We made sure to wrap the bodies securely so animals could not scavenge them. Not in any cases was I warned about the dangers of the drugs used to euthanize them making other animals sick nor did my vet ever ask me how I was going to dispose of the body. Personally, I feel as an animal owner it is my responsibility to find out this information or ask my vet.
                RIP Sucha Smooth Whiskey
                May 17,2004 - March 29, 2010
                RIP San Lena Peppy
                May 3, 1991 - March 11, 2010


                • #48
                  Since s/he is wielding the needle with the dangerous controlled substance, it IS the vet's responsibility to educate the client about this. My vets WITHOUT FAIL mention to keep dogs, wild birds (we have turkey vultures & hawks of all kinds here) and other scavengers away from the carcass for exactly this reason.

                  However, there is no way I feel the vet can be held legally responsible if they did discuss this with the client and the client then failed to follow up.

                  I doubt anyone will be prosecuted much--it's obviously a case of ignorance, they didn't INTEND for it to happen, and ruining everyone's life won't help the eagles.

                  Just a cautionary tale for everyone, that's all.


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    Don't know about condors, but our turkey vultures, buzzards, soar on the thermal wind currents along the edges of the canyons, high up and are wonderful to watch.
                    My dad calls them God's model airplanes.

                    I always appreciate the way they hang out and put on a good show every day, not like those lazy, opportunistic hawks.
                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


                    • #50
                      When I had to put down my mare last year my vet asked how I was going to dispose of the body. We arranged to have the renderer come at the same time so she wasn't laying in the front yard for any length of time. While I am not a fan of bald eagles, it is a real shame that they were poisoned because of someones negligence and I hope they pull through.
                      My blog: Crackerdog Farm


                      • #51
                        The news story was totally incomplete: the vet could have railed on the owner about the importance of keeping the bodies away from critters or could have put the horses down and left. If I were a vet, it would merit an honorable mention with me to make sure the owners knew about the dangers and if anyone actually read that link, it says the same thing. Not that the vet is responsible for the disposal but that they are responsible to educate the animal's owner. Nobody knows at this point if that happened but honestly I would assume it did.

                        Who knows what the circumstances are with the owner; the bottom line is that they dropped the ball. Maybe they're elderly, maybe they aren't around, maybe maybe. two horses put down at the same time... who knows. Crap happens but they are ultimately responsible.

                        We've never used chemical euthanasia, always a bullet and always with a backhoe waiting. We always made sure everything was gone by the time the kids came home from school. At the ranch we lived on we had a Dead Pile and that's where everything went that died of harmless causes until the Great Pyrenees hauled it back to the ranch houses in kit form. Never knew when you were going to find So and So's well aged head sitting in the front yard-ugh.
                        “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey


                        • #52
                          I hope the Eagles survive and that the exact source of the cause is determined. As of now the article states they "believe" the euthanized horses was the source. Does anyone know how the pentobarbital is absorbed when dosed for euthanasia in a horse? What I wonder is because the drug stops the heart fairly quickly, is it pumped through the entire body in that time frame? Or would the eagles have to have eaten certain organs to get a lethal dose? Does that make sense? Since eagles don't bother horses laying down in pastures my next guess is that the horses had been euthanzied for some period of time, and is it correct that the drug remains deadly in dead tissue for all time?

                          As a side note I guess pentobarbital sodium doesn't work on foxes. Last summer I took an old Siamese kitty of mine into the vet to have her euthanized, brought her home, buried her the same way we have been burying the pets on our place for 19 years. Shortly after that I found that her grave had been disturbed. I looked around found her body 25' away, on the ground, gutted. My husband reburied her using more lime. Two days later the grave was dug up again. We set up game cam and found the grave robber. Notice the date stamp- he didn't die from eating a kitty tainted with euthanasia drugs, he kept coming around for more....until he probably died from his mange infested condition.





                          • #53
                            SLW no way am I looking at those pictures! LOL
                            “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by cowboymom View Post
                              SLW no way am I looking at those pictures! LOL

                              a scrawny fox with glowing eyes, I think you can handle it!
                              (no kitty involved....)


                              • #55
                                Squawk squawk

                                Originally posted by Alagirl View Post

                                a scrawny fox with glowing eyes, I think you can handle it!
                                (no kitty involved....)
                                The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                                H. Cate


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by cowboymom View Post
                                  SLW no way am I looking at those pictures! LOL
                                  The gam cam photos are only of the fox not of him taking my kitty. We put the game cam out to see who came back digging up my sweet kitty. The fox looks really bad in the photos but this was during the height of the drought last year when everything was in short supply. So a buried, chemical filled old cat was considered a "meal". Desperate times.


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by NMK View Post
                                    I volunteer in a Raptor Center and we've seen eagles come in with lead poisoning from eating carcasses shot with lead-ridden bullets.

                                    Yes, eagles are opportunistic and yes, they are very prone to be sick from the toxicity of chemicals, especially the younger birds.
                                    The wildlife center in this area also has treated many raptors for lead poisoning from eating carrion containing hunters' bullets. Not an anti-hunting comment, but just to point out that a bullet is not necessarily non-toxic in the environment either.

                                    I can ride my horses without a sharps container.


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                      That is a big no-no with a chemically euthanized animal of any kind and I don't know anyone today that doesn't know that.
                                      This happened only a little ways away from me, so I've been hearing all about this for the past few days, and honestly, was a little shocked that it was such a big story.
                                      Some of us DON'T know that it's a "big no-no" to leave carcasses out that have been euthed by vets. Would I ever? Well, no, I wouldn't. I'd want any animal to have a proper disposal, whether it be burial or taken by the rendering people. HOWEVER, I wasn't aware that the drug used to euth animals was poisonous should it be ingested by other animals.

                                      I'm sure the horse owner wasn't aware, either, and just didn't have the proper means/funds to finish the job.
                                      Originally posted by katarine
                                      I don't want your prayers, tiny cow.
                                      Originally posted by Pat9
                                      When it's time for a horse to go to a new person, that person will appear. It's pony magic.


                                      • #59
                                        I am confused why people need to be told that the lethal drug that just killed their very large animal will be lethal to other things that might chew on your now dead horse if you leave the body accessible.
                                        Isn't it pretty obvious that the pink/purple/blue stuff if toxic after it downed an animal that weighs 1000lbs?

                                        Originally posted by NMK View Post
                                        There was a deer down by our pond (careless hunter) and the eagles were there for days. Our neighbor is a wildlife ranger and he advised us to let it be as he could not find a bullet anywhere near the carcass (he scanned it).
                                        Deer do die from things other than hunters. If no bullet was found why assume the death was caused by a 'careless hunter'?


                                        • #60
                                          Martha, I would bet that the lead poisoning being treated is from buckshot, not a single bullet to the head of the animal being ingested. A bullet is still cleaner in every way.
                                          I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                                          I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09