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Disgusting - Video of a horse shot in the head by a slaughter proponent in New Mexico

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  • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
    IMO if HSUS wanted horse slaughter bills to be passed, they could have done so a long time ago with all their money for lobbying.

    I do not believe HSUS wants horse slaughter gone, since it is one of their very successful avenues to solicit donations.
    Then you must have missed the very mad illustrious Mr President of the HSUS having his little fit when he gave his deposition to congress on why they should pass the misguided "Ban Horse Slaughter" bill.
    He stomped out of there, after practically threatening with "his power at election time" those that were asking him important questions he didn't want to answer.
    I saw that live on C-Span, such a very nice fellow that one is.

    Oh, yes, the HSUS was big time behind the ban slaughter bill, or at least acted like they were.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by EKLay View Post
      I don't want to ban slaughter itself though, that was my point. I absolutely support humane, respectful slaughter and utilization of the carcass of whatever type of animal anyone wants to use.

      I just think that big companies/facilities can too easily start to cut corners in order to get more profit and that's where the problem is. I don't believe all the sensationalist crap about slaughter houses being hotbeds of mayhem, torture, etc, but neither do I believe all the stories that everything was perfect and worked just fine either.
      I agree that there are plenty of places improvements could be made, and I would be perfectly okay with slaughter if those improvements were made and regulations were upheld.

      But I think it's wrong to use the way things used to be done in the US as examples and then wring hands and state "you see, it can NEVER be done better!! OMG, it was soooo bad before and can never ever change!!!!!"

      Just about everything in our lives has improved in the last decades: safer cars, better information highways, huge improvements in factories of all types, better understanding of animal processing and how to make it better (thank you TG!)...... but when it comes to horse slaughter some people seem to refuse to believe it could be improved and done decently.

      Does that mean people will have to "stand watch" and make sure things don't backslide? Heck yes.
      And with the internet and faster information transmission it will be easier; information that once would stay in one area can be spread worldwide in no time. People with complaints don't have to try to get a story in the local paper: you can spread it almost instantly via facebook, twitter, and all of the online news sources, putting new pressures on those involved, whether at the plant itself or those in charge of upholding regulations.

      Look what just happened with the video this thread was about: it hit the internet, caused a huge outcry, and that person is now unemployed - to say that it couldn't be done regarding inhumane treatment or broken regulations being violated seems insincere.
      How about the outcry of the treatment of downer cows? What once would have been a small local story made national news and forced changes.

      Does that mean the other options offered on this thread and others shouldn't be explored? NO.

      Should we offer gelding clinics as funds permit? Yes.

      Should we offer euthanasia clinics as funds permit? Yes, regardless of whether the horse being euthanized is young or old, pretty or fugly, trained or uncontrollable.

      Should we all do our best to inform others of proper breeding and the risks? Yes

      Should we have good rescues? Yes, those folks are angels.

      Should we spread the word about the risks of selling horses and how one has no control over what happens when they are sold? Yes.

      Should those who want to slaughter horses or sell them to slaughter be allowed to if they are following all proper procedures and humane regulations? Yes.

      I don't think any "pro-slaughter" people are saying that there shouldn't be other options available, and no one is saying inhumane slaughter should be allowed.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
        Then you must have missed the very mad illustrious Mr President of the HSUS having his little fit when he gave his deposition to congress on why they should pass the misguided "Ban Horse Slaughter" bill.
        He stomped out of there, after practically threatening with "his power at election time" those that were asking him important questions he didn't want to answer.
        I saw that live on C-Span, such a very nice fellow that one is.

        Oh, yes, the HSUS was big time behind the ban slaughter bill, or at least acted like they were.
        that was not in the news letters...
        Originally posted by BigMama1
        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
        GNU Terry Prachett

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
          don't back peddle.

          first you are up in arms about this cruel guy (which he wasn't)
          then it's about something else, and now about being brave/coward about killing stuff

          Now which is it?

          No I don't kill my own food.
          I know in theory how to, but my neighbors would object, I am sure, since I - like so many other people, live in a residential area.

          I am sure I could buy a chicken at trade day and wring his neck....but seriously, why? To prove something to you?

          Do you kill the meat for hubby or has he do it himself?
          Perhaps you could go back and read some of my earlier posts so that I am not having to constantly repeat myself. There has been no back pedaling. The vegetarian issue came up because I was agreeing that it is cowardly to dump your horse at auction and pretend it's going to get a good home.

          And seriously, why do you care WHY I am a vegetarian? And the question isn't "Do you kill your own meat" the question is "WOULD you kill your own meat." I would not. Again, simple.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
            that was not in the news letters...
            I think some of their newer members don't know "the rest of the story" about the HSUS, are only aware of the last few years PR campaign to look like altar boys only wanting the best for the poor abused animals.
            As if tigers change their stripes so easily.
            That dye job keeps needing patching up here and there, does it.

            Comment


            • [QUOTE=MoonoverMississippi;6899687].

              Does that mean people will have to "stand watch" and make sure things don't backslide? Heck yes.
              And with the internet and faster information transmission it will be easier; information that once would stay in one area can be spread worldwide in no time. People with complaints don't have to try to get a story in the local paper: you can spread it almost instantly via facebook, twitter, and all of the online news sources, putting new pressures on those involved, whether at the plant itself or those in charge of upholding regulations.

              Look what just happened with the video this thread was about: it hit the internet, caused a huge outcry, and that person is now unemployed - to say that it couldn't be done regarding inhumane treatment or broken regulations being violated seems insincere.
              QUOTE]

              But instead of more transparency, SH's have been pushing states to enact "Ag Gag" legislation to prevent anyone from filming or taking photos inside a SH. They also penalize whistleblowers. I believe 6 states have enacted or have it in process (Ag Gag laws)The only videos being done are at NON horse SH, and being done by a company hired by the SH. Yet they claim they are 3rd party monitors. And the videos are only seen by mgmt., not any regulatory agency/public/animal welfare orgs.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by newhorsemommy View Post
                Perhaps you could go back and read some of my earlier posts so that I am not having to constantly repeat myself. There has been no back pedaling. The vegetarian issue came up because I was agreeing that it is cowardly to dump your horse at auction and pretend it's going to get a good home.

                And seriously, why do you care WHY I am a vegetarian? And the question isn't "Do you kill your own meat" the question is "WOULD you kill your own meat." I would not. Again, simple.
                well, it is really irrelevant, because it is a 180 on the subject at hand.

                Frankly, I don't care if you eat meat, plants or dirt. it's your decision.

                But for argument sake, stick to one train of thought.
                If you can, that is.

                because

                oh heck, you know it, I know it....this is about a guy who killed a horse.
                so, which is it? Courage to kill your own food or the other?
                Originally posted by BigMama1
                Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                GNU Terry Prachett

                Comment


                • Jeez alagirl will please stop deflecting the debate with your cherry picking of others posts. Take some debate lessons or something.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                    For those of you who say it wont be consumed in the US. Here is a charming website with links to the USDA promoting how great horse meat is.
                    http://www.eathorse.com/
                    The bottom line is we don't consume it in the U.S. And all but tiny ethnic minorities are pretty damn loathe to start. Ditto for dogs and cats, which they eat in China but we're hardly likely to start raising them here for that. I've read in regard to the recent mis-labeling scandal in Europe that the segment of the population that desires horse meat is aging rapidly--think the generation that grew up in the immediate aftermath of WWII, when meat of all kinds was scarce.
                    The younger people are grossed out, and like here, many are even getting away from meat entirely. EU demand long-term is going to FALL, not increase.

                    Just because someone, somewhere, in some cultural enclave not far removed from the caves wants to eat something we consider a sentient companion animal, it does NOT follow that we must provide "product." They want 'em, let 'em raise their own!

                    Euthanizing a horse or dog for whom terminal physical problems have made further living either impossible or intolerable is ONE thing.

                    Dumping SPORTING COMPANIONS, not food animals, from our race tracks, show barns, and breeding stables, to be sent on a ride to equine Auschwitz just because you're too freaking cheap to take proper responsibility for it is NOT the act of anything other than a mercenary SOB. So if that's who you are, OWN IT!

                    As for Shooter Tim, I hope he's getting ALL the attention he so obviously needs. That some people here who purport to be responsible horse owners who love their animals could actually act as apologists for THIS guy simply blows my mind.

                    If the cannibals in Fiji were buying meat, would you send 'em your nephew?

                    Just . . . yeesh!

                    Comment


                    • Truthfully, me neither! Does not seem the type to give a rats ass about much.
                      But like I said, a year old Video???

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                        The bottom line is we don't consume it in the U.S. And all but tiny ethnic minorities are pretty damn loathe to start. Ditto for dogs and cats, which they eat in China but we're hardly likely to start raising them here for that. I've read in regard to the recent mis-labeling scandal in Europe that the segment of the population that desires horse meat is aging rapidly--think the generation that grew up in the immediate aftermath of WWII, when meat of all kinds was scarce.
                        The younger people are grossed out, and like here, many are even getting away from meat entirely. EU demand long-term is going to FALL, not increase.

                        Just because someone, somewhere, in some cultural enclave not far removed from the caves wants to eat something we consider a sentient companion animal, it does NOT follow that we must provide "product." They want 'em, let 'em raise their own!

                        Euthanizing a horse or dog for whom terminal physical problems have made further living either impossible or intolerable is ONE thing.

                        Dumping SPORTING COMPANIONS, not food animals, from our race tracks, show barns, and breeding stables, to be sent on a ride to equine Auschwitz just because you're too freaking cheap to take proper responsibility for it is NOT the act of anything other than a mercenary SOB. So if that's who you are, OWN IT!

                        As for Shooter Tim, I hope he's getting ALL the attention he so obviously needs. That some people here who purport to be responsible horse owners who love their animals could actually act as apologists for THIS guy simply blows my mind.

                        If the cannibals in Fiji were buying meat, would you send 'em your nephew?

                        Just . . . yeesh!
                        Well said. Thank you, but hey we are just animal rights nuts......

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                          The bottom line is we don't consume it in the U.S. And all but tiny ethnic minorities are pretty damn loathe to start. Ditto for dogs and cats, which they eat in China but we're hardly likely to start raising them here for that. I've read in regard to the recent mis-labeling scandal in Europe that the segment of the population that desires horse meat is aging rapidly--think the generation that grew up in the immediate aftermath of WWII, when meat of all kinds was scarce.
                          The younger people are grossed out, and like here, many are even getting away from meat entirely. EU demand long-term is going to FALL, not increase.

                          Just because someone, somewhere, in some cultural enclave not far removed from the caves wants to eat something we consider a sentient companion animal, it does NOT follow that we must provide "product." They want 'em, let 'em raise their own!

                          Euthanizing a horse or dog for whom terminal physical problems have made further living either impossible or intolerable is ONE thing.

                          Dumping SPORTING COMPANIONS, not food animals, from our race tracks, show barns, and breeding stables, to be sent on a ride to equine Auschwitz just because you're too freaking cheap to take proper responsibility for it is NOT the act of anything other than a mercenary SOB. So if that's who you are, OWN IT!

                          As for Shooter Tim, I hope he's getting ALL the attention he so obviously needs. That some people here who purport to be responsible horse owners who love their animals could actually act as apologists for THIS guy simply blows my mind.

                          If the cannibals in Fiji were buying meat, would you send 'em your nephew?

                          Just . . . yeesh!
                          Excellent post!
                          ************************
                          \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                          Comment


                          • Rara-ra-boom-de-ay!

                            Comment


                            • [QUOTE=jetsmom;6899703]
                              Originally posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
                              .

                              Does that mean people will have to "stand watch" and make sure things don't backslide? Heck yes.
                              And with the internet and faster information transmission it will be easier; information that once would stay in one area can be spread worldwide in no time. People with complaints don't have to try to get a story in the local paper: you can spread it almost instantly via facebook, twitter, and all of the online news sources, putting new pressures on those involved, whether at the plant itself or those in charge of upholding regulations.

                              Look what just happened with the video this thread was about: it hit the internet, caused a huge outcry, and that person is now unemployed - to say that it couldn't be done regarding inhumane treatment or broken regulations being violated seems insincere.
                              QUOTE]

                              But instead of more transparency, SH's have been pushing states to enact "Ag Gag" legislation to prevent anyone from filming or taking photos inside a SH. They also penalize whistleblowers. I believe 6 states have enacted or have it in process (Ag Gag laws)The only videos being done are at NON horse SH, and being done by a company hired by the SH. Yet they claim they are 3rd party monitors. And the videos are only seen by mgmt., not any regulatory agency/public/animal welfare orgs.
                              And I disagree with that: if they want to quiet the "storm" they should allow "vetted" observors.
                              I say "vetted" because there are those AR folks that would use an excuse to "get inside" and then use the carefully cut video to make things look very bad.
                              We all know that has been done, but, as I said in my post, we can't rely on the past to make excuses for the present: that applies to both sides, therefore, they should make reasonable concessions to allay concerns.

                              I personally disagree with the "Ag Gag" legislation. I understand the reasons: to prevent those heavily editted and cut-and-pasted films that present things incorrectly (we all know that happens) and the "make something happen and then tape it" films, but I would rather see them allow vetted observors.
                              I think what Fairfax did was excellent, making time to observe the floor; if that was constantly allowed I think that would allay many concerns and provide a "fact check" on the doctored tapes.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                                The bottom line is we don't consume it in the U.S. And all but tiny ethnic minorities are pretty damn loathe to start. Ditto for dogs and cats, which they eat in China but we're hardly likely to start raising them here for that. I've read in regard to the recent mis-labeling scandal in Europe that the segment of the population that desires horse meat is aging rapidly--think the generation that grew up in the immediate aftermath of WWII, when meat of all kinds was scarce.
                                The younger people are grossed out, and like here, many are even getting away from meat entirely. EU demand long-term is going to FALL, not increase.

                                Just because someone, somewhere, in some cultural enclave not far removed from the caves wants to eat something we consider a sentient companion animal, it does NOT follow that we must provide "product." They want 'em, let 'em raise their own!

                                Euthanizing a horse or dog for whom terminal physical problems have made further living either impossible or intolerable is ONE thing.

                                Dumping SPORTING COMPANIONS, not food animals, from our race tracks, show barns, and breeding stables, to be sent on a ride to equine Auschwitz just because you're too freaking cheap to take proper responsibility for it is NOT the act of anything other than a mercenary SOB. So if that's who you are, OWN IT!

                                As for Shooter Tim, I hope he's getting ALL the attention he so obviously needs. That some people here who purport to be responsible horse owners who love their animals could actually act as apologists for THIS guy simply blows my mind.

                                If the cannibals in Fiji were buying meat, would you send 'em your nephew?

                                Just . . . yeesh!
                                Tell us more of how you feel, we don't quite get it yet.

                                Too bad that you dismiss so easily how humans evolved and are who we are today.

                                Would be nice to live in a different world, where humans stood on a pedestal in a bubble, eating pills, not to be contaminated with this ugly, dirty, filthy world we happen to be living in, some day, in the future, maybe.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                                  The bottom line is we don't consume it in the U.S. And all but tiny ethnic minorities are pretty damn loathe to start.
                                  So because it is something no one but a small minority is interested in it should be outlawed in your opinion?

                                  How about applying that attitude to other things, like gay rights..... after all, only a small minority are interested in doing that, so we should make a bunch of laws preventing them to do what they lawfully want to becuase we are the majority, right? Just...yeesh!

                                  Or horse ownership? We are a small minority, getting smaller all the time, so it will be perfectly find for those who think horses are icky and smelly to decide ownership needs to be outlawed so they don't have to smell it. Just...yeesh!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by newhorsemommy View Post
                                    No, you can eat anything you want. I won't eat something I don't have the balls to kill. It's a personal choice and it's really pretty simple.
                                    But isn't that exactly what the guy in the video did ? Hypocrite much ? Yes he tooled it up when he turned it into a political Pro vS Anti mess. But here's a man who is willing to pick out his meat, kill it , process it and consume it yet you started a thread about "Disgusting-Video-of-a-horse-shot-in-the-head-by-a-slaughter-proponent-in-New-Mexico"

                                    So which is it the former or the later. There are THOUSANDS of videos on you tube of hunters shooting every type of beast and very little back lash?
                                    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                                      Excellent post!
                                      You really think so? she dares to compare the atrocity of World war two and Horse Slaughter, by calling it an equine Auschwitz. Please!
                                      You folks are really showing your colors! PETA is calling!

                                      Comment


                                      • [QUOTE=MoonoverMississippi;6899739]
                                        Originally posted by jetsmom View Post

                                        And I disagree with that: if they want to quiet the "storm" they should allow "vetted" observors.
                                        I say "vetted" because there are those AR folks that would use an excuse to "get inside" and then use the carefully cut video to make things look very bad.
                                        We all know that has been done, but, as I said in my post, we can't rely on the past to make excuses for the present: that applies to both sides, therefore, they should make reasonable concessions to allay concerns.

                                        I personally disagree with the "Ag Gag" legislation. I understand the reasons: to prevent those heavily editted and cut-and-pasted films that present things incorrectly (we all know that happens) and the "make something happen and then tape it" films, but I would rather see them allow vetted observors.
                                        I think what Fairfax did was excellent, making time to observe the floor; if that was constantly allowed I think that would allay many concerns and provide a "fact check" on the doctored tapes.
                                        But, but, that is what they have now.
                                        All slaughter plants that provide meat for most bigger companies at least, per their contract.
                                        Yes, independent companies handle the monitoring, just as there is one handling my security cameras from town.
                                        Not everyone has access to those and should not.
                                        The ones in charge and their in house management, from both, the plant and the ones they sell to, have access to those videos.
                                        It is understandably that, in todays world, not everyone out there does, other than carefully vetted ones.
                                        Not because they hide anything, but because of so many reasons like security and proprietary methods, etc.

                                        On the other hand, if anyone is up to no good to lie about any abuses, the video cameras will also catch that.
                                        So yes, animal rights extremists are a bit miffed about that.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
                                          But isn't that exactly what the guy in the video did ? Hypocrite much ? Yes he tooled it up when he turned it into a political Pro vS Anti mess. But hers a man who is willing to pick out his meat, kill it , process it and consume it yet you started a thread about "Disgusting-Video-of-a-horse-shot-in-the-head-by-a-slaughter-proponent-in-New-Mexico"

                                          So which is it the former or the later. There are THOUSANDS of videos on you tube of hunters shooting every type of beast and very little back lash?
                                          Exactly right Lynwood!

                                          Comment

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