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Disgusting - Video of a horse shot in the head by a slaughter proponent in New Mexico

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  • Originally posted by Sannois View Post
    There never will be a home for every horse it is an unreasonable thought.
    .
    Of course it's unreasonable, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't try.

    Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
    oh, don't make me go back to where you claim to know all about your local hunts, intimating that you were actually participating.

    But you know, it will probably end like with your claim not to stalk and attack certain BB members....

    Yes, I know, I am mean to you!
    Why do you persist in perpetuating something that does not contribute to the topic at hand?
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jenm View Post
      Why do you persist in perpetuating something that does not contribute to the topic at hand?
      Why don't you ask yourself the question. While sitting on your hands

      I, for one, find it hilarious that the people with the trigger happiest finger when it comes to be disagreeable also have the lowest tolerance when somebody disagrees with them and points out the errors of their ways.

      In this case - if I was not too lazy - I could show you the screenshot I bothered to preserve for posterity that shows that SV is just that, very disagreeable.

      You can then for yourself leaf through this thread and find the posts that give the impression she is out behind the hounds a lot. Which is obviously a myth thoroughly busted.

      And yes, for some people - like SV - not agreeing with them constitutes a personal attack. Goody!
      Originally posted by BigMama1
      Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
      GNU Terry Prachett

      Comment


      • Alagirl, only 39 more posts and you've got 25,000.
        ************************
        \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
          Unlike you, I have no horse....but heck, I don't have the time to dig through old threads.....
          maybe the spring clean is overdo at the barn, Sweet?
          Oh, no trouble at all...30 seconds and three search words and poof, there they were.

          Comment


          • Come on, folks. If you can't stand another poster, put him on ignore. If you are that interested in each other, get a room. Following people around threads to harangue or snark at them is just childish.
            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
            -Rudyard Kipling

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jenm View Post
              They sure did. He will have plenty of time to make stupid videos since it's probably going to be difficult for him to find a new job!
              Sue and Dave would probably love to have him on their payroll.
              ************************
              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SherlocksPonies View Post
                Fairfax, I totally salute you and what you have done to ensure better slaughtering methods and actively going to the plants, etc.

                I like that you have put your convictions and beliefs to reality. Brava! And, it's obvious to me that you are looking at all of the picture as you are supportive of proper rescue organizations and are a responsible breeder to boot. Definitely you have a wide range of experiences in the horse world and show a good understanding of the "whole picture".

                I don't think it is realistic to expect all horses can be saved, or should be, and so euthanization (and slaughter plants) exists and should be available and run humanely as possible.

                However, you did say: Slaughter is NOT a lazy mans way. Read the post on the other thread on COTH re Amish horses and there is a poster who stated a lady she knew DARED to euthanize her horse as it was trained...a great riding horse and she could not sell it. I understand the asking price was as finally pick the horse up and take it away. NO TAKERS.



                Fairfax, that post was by me. You just said:

                I understand the asking price was as finally pick the horse up and take it away. NO TAKERS.

                Not true.

                I will again make an effort to POST THE FACTS... and first off, do not think that I have fur-baby views of horses, that I am a "rescue at all costs" type, or feel that someone should never ever put a horse down, or a totally anti-slaughter type of person...all of which were ascribed to me in the other thread as assumptions of my views because many there never really read the initial post clearly for the facts of the situation.

                I gave specific facts as to that situation, and only used this experience as an example of someone I knew who DID appear to me to use euthanization as a "convenience" factor in their lives. The reason I gave this story was to point out that individuals make choices.

                To reiterate the facts:

                The woman I described made NO effort to find a home for her horse. She made decision to get rid of this horse, suddenly said it was too much work for her to deal with him, and euthanized him within the week. No calls, no flyers, no effort made to sell, she did not call any rescues, friends or neighbors to rehome, etc. I keep reading people saying that she tried to sell him and could not, and that is not the case, nor did I state that. It was NOT that there were "no takers", she never made the effort to try to sell him in the FIRST place.

                This woman did not have family or money issues, etc, pressuring her to euthanize. The horse was healthy, age 12, well trained and had no behavioral issues.

                Finally, what I found strange was that then she lied to so many around her and told them "he suddenly died" because she was seeking sympathy (tons of forum posts, FaceBook posts, etc), and to me, doing so in the circumstances was odd as most of those who knew her well knew that it was not so, found it puzzling and contradictory.

                And, 6 mos later she went out and got another horse. Which she is now complaining about.

                Those are the facts. To me it seemed like she was merely using euthanization to "erase" him because she was impatient to deal with any other action in the situation.

                That is just my opinion, and I only told this vignette to point out that individuals make these decisions on what to do with their horses, how to treat them...the thread was about how the Amish treat their horses poorly. I used this story along with the statements that I live where there are many working ranches where horses are not coddled pets and you may see things which would look like poor treatment on those ranches, but horses are working livestock on ranches, not pets.

                I merely was trying to point out that the Amish were not the only people who might seem to treat horses poorly. Obviously, in choosing to use the example I did, my point was not made clearly or well.


                All of the above being said, Fairfax, contrary to assumptions made on that thread and apparently again here on this one, NO, I am not against euthanization whatsoever, nor am I "horrified" if someone "dares" euthanize a horse.

                Just because I have occasionally rescued horses in certain circumstances does NOT mean I have not had to euthanize horses over my lifetime. I totally get that it can be necessary to do for many reasons, and especially if a horse is seriously ill, hurt, in agony, etc, and veterinary help is unavailable. Old age and wishing to be sure the horse does not suffer later on are also worthy reasons. There are as many reasons as there are people.

                I also read later in that thread about the problems of driving those horses on concrete roads...indeed, it would seem to me to be very hard on their joints, etc., as I know it sure hurts humans as several runners pointed out on there. Where I live we have mostly dirt roads and open ranch land that working horses would be travelling, so it is different than back East.


                Like several others who have posted here, I live out in the boonies and even the fastest vet response may take too long. I grew up watching my grandparents run a working ranch and saw many decisions like this and so do not have an issue with it. Indeed, I have a gun, know how to do it properly and quickly, and won't hesitate to do so in order to save my horse(s) (or other animals) from horrendous suffering.


                To me this thread really began about someone pointing out that this guy who made that video was making it not to show proper euthanization techniques but to showboat killing a horse....I do not see that what he did is humane, and to me he is a jerk.

                That all said, being able and willing to euthanize is an important thing to consider when owning horses (or even other animals). And, humane and proper slaughtering of those animals which cannot be saved or rehomed or helped is important.

                Which is why, Fairfax, I said that I salute your practical efforts in helping to ensure that in the plants near where you live. Slaughter plants, properly run, have their important place.
                I stand corrected and thank you.

                She was lazy then. Sad.
                The Elephant in the room

                Comment


                • That guy in the video should be classified as too insane to own firearms.
                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                  Comment


                  • Y'know, everybody on the pro-side seems to know of this hypothetical CL horse that's sound, beautiful and well-broke and they can't GIVE him away to anyone. If that's for real, those people must have been DAMN poor at networking!

                    Frankly, I've never seen that situation in my entire life, and right now I know at least five different stable operators who can't find a usable schoolie ANYwhere, even one guy who gets them out of Canada from a dealer, paying up to $5,000!

                    The horses that ARE unwanted? As in, "Take my horse, PLEASE!" Those are the spoiled, unbroken and unmanageable youngsters (6 years old WB, not halterbroke, anyone?), or the ruined ones with dangerous habits that an ammie can't handle, or the ones who are frankly too small, too ugly, too poorly built or so unathletic they have literally no job unless they can land a gig as backyard pet. Fortunately, a friend of mine has a gift for matching these last up with the right kind of home; the latest is a Haffie who looks like a Thelwell pony (and is probably most suitable for BACON!) who got a soft landing with an older man with a beer belly who looks exactly like him.

                    Hypothetically, let's say we had The Purge--opened 5 SH's regionally for a month and got rid of EVERY SINGLE "unwanted" horse out there. Would the "unwanted horse" problem go away? Would accidental or ill-advised breedings stop? Would financially or intellectually challenged CL'ers be a thing of the past?

                    If NOT, how the devil is slaughter the answer to this problem?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                      to stop a thing, you must first define a thing

                      Tamara in Tn
                      In order to define it, you have to decide who gets to "officially" define it and therein lies the rub.
                      Who gets to decide what is an irresponsible breeder, the ones everyone wants to stop? HSUS, PETA, other breeders (who may or may not have the horses best interest at heart), COTH posters, breed organizations, the general public (many of whom have never touched a horse)...whose definition is going to count?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                        Come on, folks. If you can't stand another poster, put him on ignore. If you are that interested in each other, get a room. Following people around threads to harangue or snark at them is just childish.
                        Deserves to be said again.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                          Alagirl, only 39 more posts and you've got 25,000.
                          38

                          and?

                          Originally posted by BigMama1
                          Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                          GNU Terry Prachett

                          Comment


                          • Shield your eyes folks the train has crashed!!!
                            I think another one is about to derail right on top of it!
                            people people play nice!!!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                              38

                              and?

                              Better than having a handful only and most of those trolling for animal rights extremists ... on a horse forum, from all places.
                              That has never made much sense to me, but I guess that is the internet for you.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                                Shield your eyes folks the train has crashed!!!
                                I think another one is about to derail right on top of it!
                                people people play nice!!!
                                Oh, come ON!

                                That train never was on the tracks to begin with!
                                Originally posted by BigMama1
                                Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                GNU Terry Prachett

                                Comment


                                • Could you guys knock it off? If you have something of value to add to the thread, do so. But enough of the snarky remarks that don't add anything.


                                  To the poster saying if we built SH and bought up every unwanted horse, would the problem go away? No. Slaughter is there not because of how many horses there are, but how much of a demand for horsemeat for human consumption overseas there is. Look at the early 80's when we slaughtered close to 300k a yr. Yet we had considerably less horses in the country. Then in the early 90's we dropped down to less than 50k a year. It is all to do with demand for horsemeat, and nothing to do with how many horses there are.

                                  And once and for all, people should realize that having slaughter avail does not prevent abuse. We are slaughtering more horses each yr than when we had SH in the US, yet there is still abuse/neglect. They are not slaughtering the old, crippled horses. Opening SH here doesn't change how many are neglected. It just provides those nearby with an incentive to breed more, because it will be cheaper to get them to slaughter so price per lb will increase, offering incentives to breed more, steal more.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                    Could you guys knock it off? If you have something of value to add to the thread, do so. But enough of the snarky remarks that don't add anything.


                                    To the poster saying if we built SH and bought up every unwanted horse, would the problem go away? No. Slaughter is there not because of how many horses there are, but how much of a demand for horsemeat for human consumption overseas there is. Look at the early 80's when we slaughtered close to 300k a yr. Yet we had considerably less horses in the country. Then in the early 90's we dropped down to less than 50k a year. It is all to do with demand for horsemeat, and nothing to do with how many horses there are.

                                    And once and for all, people should realize that having slaughter avail does not prevent abuse. We are slaughtering more horses each yr than when we had SH in the US, yet there is still abuse/neglect. They are not slaughtering the old, crippled horses. Opening SH here doesn't change how many are neglected. It just provides those nearby with an incentive to breed more, because it will be cheaper to get them to slaughter so price per lb will increase, offering incentives to breed more, steal more.
                                    I couldn't agree more!!

                                    Comment


                                    • If the "opening up more SH" was in reference to my comments about the Federal Meat Inspection Act; you did not read for content.

                                      I was referring to the possibility that the Act could be amended to permit small plants to accept horses for disposal. Not slaughter for human consumption; except perhaps in the case of custom-exempt plants which can process animals for human consumption - but for the owners only. The meat cannot enter the national (or international) food supply.

                                      That was not intended to be a one size fits all solution to the problem of excess/unwanted horses.

                                      Absorbing the excess horses through a variety of avenues is a more reasonable approach than demanding owners just be more responsible. I would rather see old Dobbin get a bullet from a local knacker than be sent to an auction and ending up God knows where.
                                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                      -Rudyard Kipling

                                      Comment


                                      • Ah, sorry.

                                        But any meaningful discussion is pretty much impossible when there is lack of respect.

                                        That means pretty much everything from the hyperbole in the title to pulling up unrelated threads.
                                        And let's not forget name calling.

                                        It starts with 'disgusting', followed through by implying cruelty and hysteria....analysing the person in the video, liking him to a psychopath and mass murderer (yeah, the remark about not wanting him in the neighborhood or near schools...good god!) or wanting to revoke his gun owning rights (god, I can't believe I am saying that...)

                                        we follow this up with calling fellow BBers yahoos, implying they are bloodthirsty banshees, because they know and - words can't express the sorrow - had to employ alternative means to dispatch a horse with other than pink juice.....


                                        then of course we have the little intermezzo where you-know-who is back paddling at world record speed. Bless her heart, she does not edit the posts in question, so I do grant her that.

                                        and of course, my perennial favorite: You have no horse, you may not post your opinion.
                                        which, of course in its inception has been laughed off the reservation, because the unpopular 7 uttered it, defending the handle barred one (somewhat related, since at least one of the linked articles referenced the man in the video by facial hair....)

                                        and in the last bit of irony, we civilized people rejoice in this person losing his job and hoping he won't get another one....(I don't think you should bet the farm on that one though)

                                        And yet....ah, right, when the vet is hours away, he might just be the guy you want to have around with his gun....

                                        Oh, right....you are not a yahoo....

                                        Ok

                                        I am done procrastinating, I actually have work to do.

                                        Originally posted by BigMama1
                                        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                        GNU Terry Prachett

                                        Comment


                                        • I still say we can't save them all. It is impossible.
                                          We can only be responsible horse owners, not send them to sales or auctions.
                                          Have them humanely destroyed when it is necessary. Adopt one or two if you have the means to care for them. I mean really they are going to slaughter horses for food no matter what, people like it.
                                          I do not think there is anything that can be done with how they are treated in foreign countries.
                                          We all can agree they should be destroyed quickly and without trauma,
                                          If they really do open more in the US for human consumption, maybe the standards will be more strict.
                                          I also do not think the problem is with the single horse owner, as much as the breeder. But That subject has been beaten like a dead horse, pun intended.
                                          I just know that in all the threads over the years that have been posted on here, there is no solution. And yelling at each other and calling each other names behind the computer screen sure as heck is no answer.
                                          Signing off from this months Slaughter thread, stay tuned for the next train wreck. Oh and Edited to add.. I do not have a horse anymore either, I had to put him down two years ago tomorrow. So I am not really qualified.

                                          Comment

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