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UPDATE post#33/Reuters video on the NYC carriage horses - what do you think?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by OBXPony View Post
    I had 4 run ins with cabs, and I as a pedestrian had the right of way.
    I've visited NYC many times. City dwellers gave me this bit of wisdom that always worked for me: You have to look at the cabs/cabbies for them to stop for you. If you don't, they'll just keep going and expect you to get out of the way. Doesn't work for buses, though. They'll run over you no matter what.
    __________________________
    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
    the best day in ten years,
    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

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    • #22
      Originally posted by mp View Post
      I've visited NYC many times. City dwellers gave me this bit of wisdom that always worked for me: You have to look at the cabs/cabbies for them to stop for you. If you don't, they'll just keep going and expect you to get out of the way. Doesn't work for buses, though. They'll run over you no matter what.
      This is how it works in Italy too, you have to make eye contact with drivers so you know they're seen you otherwise they keep on driving.
      Well that was pretty boring actually. Which is a good thing. The horses were all in good weight, well groomed and relaxed. Carriages also were clean and tidy. It was a major fail if they wanted to stir up anti-carriage horse feelings and support

      Interesting that she says it would be fine if the horses were working in a rural area.
      where am I, what day is it, am I still having a good time?

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      • #23
        Originally posted by MunchingonHay View Post
        If you cut the first bit out with the woman talking out her @SS its a really nice, pro carriage industry for the park. That woman needs to get a life and learn her lines better if she is paid a high five figure salary to get the horses out of the park.

        And her time was longer than the stable manager/drivers time, or am I mistaken?
        No, you are not mistaken. Conor actively sought out an interview. He talked to the gal who was interviewing people and she said that her boss had sent her out to cover NYCLASS's car thing, at the request of NYCLASS (who lugged their $12,500 model car out to Central Park). Now, among NYCLASS's supporters listed on their website is Jane Hamilton, who works for Thompson Reuters. Reuters did this piece. Makes you go "hmmmmmmm"... The folks with the camera and microphone may not have interviewed ANYONE from the industry if Conor hadn't kinda insisted.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Horse with No Name View Post
          Interesting that she says it would be fine if the horses were working in a rural area.
          I am one of those lucky people who has driven in both urban and rural areas on the road. (I have been a carriage driver in Philadelphia, am currently a driver in New York City, and have driven on rural roads in western Massachusetts and eastern Tennessee.)

          I would much rather drive in the city than on a country road. PERIOD. It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer, because while there are MORE cars, those cars are much more careful. NYC streets are full of taxis that are always suddenly pulling over and stopping, UPS trucks blocking lanes, people suddenly stepping off the curb with a baby carriage, delivery bicycles darting in and out of traffic like bats outta hell, hot dog carts being pushed at a trudging pace against traffic, etc. Because of this, drivers are MUCH more alert and also drive slower. They are always expecting the unexpected, and so a big carriage with a big orange triangle, well-reflectored, etc. is not hard for them to avoid hitting. (Yes, they may drive too close or be assholes, but they don't hit us.)

          On a country road, there is less room, less visibility, and higher speeds, where people are NOT expecting another vehicle moving at a very slow speed blocking their path. The terrors of being on the other side of a hill or a curve is very real and very dangerous.

          City streets are MUCH safer.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
            NYCLASS, the organization headed by the real-estate developer and parking lot magnate which is trying to ban us here in NYC and replace us with electric cars, got Reuters to do some footage on their proposal.

            The woman you will see interviewed is Allie Feldman, the current top operative for NYCLASS, who is compensated $70K a year for her job. (I mention this so that you do not confuse her for either a RARA or a volunteer, as she is neither - just a hired gun.)

            The carriage driver you will see interviewed also owns his carriage, has been in the business for 25 years, and is currently the manager of the largest carriage stable, Clinton Park on 52nd St. He asked Reuters on the spot if he could have equal time to speak.

            Just curious what you all think....

            This is the raw footage:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=GRayUI1hpr4
            I thought it was overall very positive....
            Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
            Alfred A. Montapert

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            • #26
              The video is unedited footage. During the editing, it can be cut, pasted, and dubbed to present whatever message the media outlet wishes.
              The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
              Winston Churchill

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              • #27
                1) horses will always be greener then cars. Urine, really? Forgive my TV view (CA girl here), but I think there are more homeless people pooping in public then horses urinating.

                2) forcing? FORCING? Because we alllll know you can force a 1200# horse to do what it doesn't want to do. (exceptions, yes, but those horses looked "on the job"!)

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Frank B View Post
                  The video is unedited footage. During the editing, it can be cut, pasted, and dubbed to present whatever message the media outlet wishes.

                  Of course - but that goes both ways and it is very good to have the unedited video as a counter-point.
                  Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

                  "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

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                  • #29
                    I thought the video was very positive for the NY carriage horse industry. I saw calm, healthy horses who seemed very relaxed in their work. The carriages and harnesses looked as lovely and well kept as the horses. I believe the NY carriage industry has consistantly demonstrated quality care and management of their horses' physical and mental well being.

                    However, what I did not appreciate at all was one of the comments by a carriage supporter who decided to attack the sport of eventing in a similarly uniformed and obnoxious way as the RARA anti-carriage folks. The quote reads:

                    "More horses are killed every weekend in eventing, the sport of Stephen Nislick (founder of NYCLASS), than have been killed or injured in the history of NYC carriages."

                    Really? Killed every weekend? What an incrediby uninformed and obnoxious thing to write. If the carriage industry wants the support of the other horse disciplines, they should NOT have their supporters go around trying to justify the carriage industry by falsly accusing other disciplines.
                    Last edited by ADM7040; Mar. 19, 2013, 09:11 AM. Reason: punctuation
                    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
                    Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
                    Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

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                    • #30
                      I don't think they are trying to slam the Eventing discipline; I think it is more pointing out that Nislick is a hypocrite to be concerned over the safety of the carriage horses for "multiple deaths" when deaths happen in ALL horse industries across the board. Because he is an eventer, they are using that to point out the hypocrisy of his logic.
                      Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                      Bernard M. Baruch

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                      • #31
                        I can not wait to see what the edited version of this video looks like.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by alittlegray View Post
                          That video made me have a reaction, all right. I desperately want one of those insanely bomb-proof horses now!! Lol. Probably not the reaction they were looking for.
                          Agreed. If I could afford it....I'd love to get into driving again. I'd feel myself pretty lucky to get one of those horses as a driving 'schoolmaster.'

                          Horses look great.
                          "Friend" me !

                          http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

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                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            As I stated in my OP, and as Frank B pointed out in a later post, the link in the OP was to the raw footage; here is the final Reuters report:

                            http://www.reuters.com/video/2013/03...eoId=241625429

                            What always strikes me about NYCLASS is their obsession with what they see as the "ick" factor of horses - objectionable body functions and odors. They don't sound like horse people, or even animal people; they sound just like what they are -- people trying to sell a car business.

                            Check out also their latest post:

                            https://www.facebook.com/stophorseabuse?ref=ts&fref=ts
                            VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                            https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

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                            • #34
                              I didn't watch the video - the "don't poop, foam at the mouth or urinate on city streets!" comment on their Facebook page was enough to turn me off.

                              Who are these people?
                              Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

                              "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by TheBarnRules View Post
                                I didn't watch the video - the "don't poop, foam at the mouth or urinate on city streets!" comment on their Facebook page was enough to turn me off.

                                Who are these people?
                                the same who let their dogs poop and urinate on the streets...
                                Originally posted by BigMama1
                                Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                GNU Terry Prachett

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                                • #36
                                  I loved the last line...Get it from the horse's mouth!

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
                                    I had to laugh at this, one of the comments on their facebook page:

                                    I would go into the city more often if these electric vintage cars were put into use and horse carriages were done away with.
                                    Because you are some how offended by there being horses there at all or what? How does the fact that there are horses in the city make it such that you are not going there and the appearance of vintage cars going to make it so much better?

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
                                      What always strikes me about NYCLASS is their obsession with what they see as the "ick" factor of horses - objectionable body functions and odors. They don't sound like horse people, or even animal people; they sound just like what they are -- people trying to sell a car business.
                                      I've been to New York City. Many times.

                                      The least objectionable thing about that city is the horses.

                                      The entire city is disgusting.
                                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                      -Rudyard Kipling

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                                      • #39
                                        Here is the finished video story with the voiceover http://www.reuters.com/video/2013/03...1&refresh=true
                                        Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                                        Bernard M. Baruch

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                                        • #40
                                          http://pix11.com/2012/12/12/first-on...#axzz2O66yh5DQ

                                          Here's a story from WPIX in NYC about the huge backlog of ASPCA responses to genuine animal cruelty. The RARAs are constantly calling them about "abuse" happening in mid-town Manhattan, where anyone can witness it. A horse with his leg cocked - it's broken! Some broken hair on the coat -- horrific harness wounds! This nonsense is literally causing animals suffering actual abuse to die.

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