• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Morgan Assoc. approves use of bands/turnbuckles UPDATE page 12

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by mrd:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fourmares:
    Those bands sure are ugly. I don't think I'd want to show in them.
    You would hardly see the bands - the hoof black goes right over it and over the shoe and anything else and all just looks like hoof. You would have to be close up to see them in a show.

    Okay, so back to the topic. If we are just talking about bands going on to keep shoes on - the same shoes they are using now - what is so bad about that? Some horses need help. Tearing off huge chunks of hoof wall would be more damaging than the bands. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Here's a novel thought--if the horse has crappy hoof quality, perhaps a break from showing while the problems are addressed and corrected would be a Good Thing?
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Luvinfoofy:
      However, I do not think that you can use jumping as a comparison as far as abuse goes because you can't muscle a horse over a 4' fence. The exaggerated gait that you see in these breeds is caused by a reaction. Reaction to shoeing, training, and sometimes (unfortunately) even pain. When jumping, it isn't a jerk reaction unless you are poling or using something to scare the horse over the fence.
      Um, isn't what all horses end up doing a "reaction" to training? (Including jumping). If you have ever been around a field of babies of ASB or Morgan or Hackney or any other naturally high stepping breed, you'd soon learn that the motion is NOT a reaction to heavy shoeing.

      I've got one ASB who, even with her white feet, has the strongest/toughest feet of virtually any horse in the barn. No problem for her to go barefoot at all. She also *does not* want to pick them up and no amount of shoeing is going to make her do that. So, she's an awesome Western horse because that's what she likes to do. My gelding, OTOH, has shelly awful feet that break off if you sneeze on them (no matter what we do for him nutritionally). He's got wonderful motion. We tried showing him Country Pleasure - without pads, and he's a mid-teen now with pidgeon toes. He has enough motion that he ends up being "ouchy" without pads. So, we added a pad as a shock absorber as equusvilla pointed out. Now? He's happy with lots of nice motion and a pad.

      I had one horse who wore a band for one show season on one foot. He developed a habit of overstriding on that side and pulled that shoe off regularly. The band helped. Through a reaction to training and shoeing <g> that year, we were able to correct the overstride and the band came off.

      Comment


      • #63
        It's totally amazing the ignorance people show when it comes to breeds they know absolutly nothing about. If people would worry more about the breed they have and issues within it instead of looking at others that they have no history about, know nothing about the training, and know nothing about the breed industry, then we all might be a lot better off. It amazes me when their idiot attitude and lack of knowlegde comes out....it makes me shake my head and laugh...oh and don't forget about the "drama" most put in their post.....absolutley amazing

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Lazy Palomino Hunter:
          Although this is walking horses, I think the "big shoe" theory applies...

          check out the CANTER on the horses with the big shoes!! They look so scary!
          God that is so sad...I must be hormonal, but I cried when I saw that.
          COTH's official mini-donk enabler

          "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

          Comment


          • #65
            You can not judge every saddle seat breed on ONE type of ONE breed of horse.

            Comment


            • #66
              CA ASB, are you saying that the big lick Walkers move like that NATURALLY?

              I'm more than willing to believe that there are plenty of ASBs, Hackneys, etc. who have a lot of motion - NATURALLY - after all, they've been bred for it for centuries (well - the breeds that make up the Hackney, ASB, etc.). I have a REALLY hard time believing those Walkers that move in such a ... perversion of what Walkers do naturally (the running walk etc.) do that WITHOUT the big shoes, the chains, etc.

              Comment


              • #67
                I don't believe that CA was referring to or providing any sort of testament regarding Walkers...

                Comment


                • #68
                  Thanks, khorsem.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I try not to get too emotionally caught up on all the snarking going on here, but I just to point out: my post was to highlight the fact that (a) the 'no big shoe' guy was riding a SADDLEBRED who was gaiting well, a joy to watch, and was absolutely one lovely animal.

                    The other horses in the class had on the Frankenstein footware and were doing the paddlewheel stuff to beat the band.

                    I KNOW what a Saddlebred looks like. I'm familiar with 'gaited' breeds, and having rode a 'natural' pacer for most of my callow youth, know how smooth and comfy the ride can be.

                    The horses in this class were all Saddlebreds.

                    In looking at the 'action' I could not understand why those who were doing the giantic paddlewheel, with the aid of God-knows-what tacked, rubbed, screwed, glued and tatooed to their poor feet were more desireable and attractive than the high-stepping, smooth gaited and elegant 'natural' saddlebred. It was patently obvious who was the better animal!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Kat - what you may have seen is a breed that is totally apart from Saddlebreds and they are called Walkingbreds (part Walker, part Saddlebred). If it was an open class, then a gaited Saddlebred would be eligible to enter but if the judge was a Walking Horse judge (which is usually who judges Walkingbred classes), then a Saddlebred would have looked like an alien to him as it would have been racking instead of "walking". Walkingbreds are padded just like purebred Walking Horses and are shown in exactly the same manner. Some of them look more like a Saddlebred in structure but they move like the other half of their breeding - the Walking Horse. That would account for the judge not placing the horse as a purebred racking Saddlebred would not have been his cup of tea.
                      Susan N.

                      Don't get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Just what exactly do you call Frankenstein footwear? Most ASBs, especially GAITED ones, do NOT wear big shoe packages - it makes it very hard for them to do all 5 gaits. The big packages are found only on the TWH.

                        A typical ASB shoe is one leather pad, plus one wedge or plastic pad, for a grand total of maybe 1/2" to 1" of pads, plus a shoe. The stacks that exceed 3" and sometimes much more are ONLY found on the TWH and are only wearable by a lateral-moving horse due to the way it moves (landing severely heel-first with a sustained time period on the ground). A trotting horse could not possibly function in that type of package.

                        And you used the term "big lick". That is strictly a TWH term and is never used in reference to Saddlebreds. At least, not by those who know anything about the two breeds...but it's commonly used by the ignorant.

                        And based on your description of the way the horses moved, and the shoes, I FIRMLY believe you were watching either a TWH show, or a gaited show where crossbreds are shown, and yes, sometimes someone will take a purebred ASB. But none of the horses there will trot. In the ASB ring, motion like a TWH is NOT desirable since it is very unnatural to the ASB. If you ever see an ASB or a partbred (usually crossed with a TWH) performing at a gaited-only show (no trotting in the classes) then you might see a perversion of the ASB slow-gait and rack or something that resembles the TWH running walk. But you are not seeing how a true ASB is represented in the show ring.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Actually, I went back and read the first post from Kat the Horse and then saw where she is from. I believe she is speaking of the Salina horse show that is a charity show and is also the home of the Kansas Futurity (for ASBs). Am I correct?

                          Kat - are you speaking of this year? If so, I was at the show. In the gaited class (since you state the horse gaited wonderfully), there was only one entry. I know as I was riding the horse for a friend. And, since there were so few horses there, I'm sure I would have noted a gentleman with a barefoot ASB - but quite honestly, I didn't see anyone like that at all.

                          As to not placing, no ASB class had over 4 entries in it this year, so the horse would have placed had it been there.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by CA ASB:
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luvinfoofy:
                            However, I do not think that you can use jumping as a comparison as far as abuse goes because you can't muscle a horse over a 4' fence. The exaggerated gait that you see in these breeds is caused by a reaction. Reaction to shoeing, training, and sometimes (unfortunately) even pain. When jumping, it isn't a jerk reaction unless you are poling or using something to scare the horse over the fence.
                            Um, isn't what all horses end up doing a "reaction" to training? (Including jumping). If you have ever been around a field of babies of ASB or Morgan or Hackney or any other naturally high stepping breed, you'd soon learn that the motion is NOT a reaction to heavy shoeing.

                            I've got one ASB who, even with her white feet, has the strongest/toughest feet of virtually any horse in the barn. No problem for her to go barefoot at all. She also *does not* want to pick them up and no amount of shoeing is going to make her do that. So, she's an awesome Western horse because that's what she likes to do. My gelding, OTOH, has shelly awful feet that break off if you sneeze on them (no matter what we do for him nutritionally). He's got wonderful motion. We tried showing him Country Pleasure - without pads, and he's a mid-teen now with pidgeon toes. He has enough motion that he ends up being "ouchy" without pads. So, we added a pad as a shock absorber as equusvilla pointed out. Now? He's happy with lots of nice motion and a pad.

                            I had one horse who wore a band for one show season on one foot. He developed a habit of overstriding on that side and pulled that shoe off regularly. The band helped. Through a reaction to training and shoeing <g> that year, we were able to correct the overstride and the band came off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            You misunderstood me. I stand by what I said..
                            "The exaggerated gait that you see in these breeds is caused by a reaction."

                            I didn't say that they don't step high naturally, I said that when a gait is exaggerated as it is, there is something causing that reaction. Moreover, I didn't say that shoeing is the only cause of reaction! In this entire thread, I haven't said anything about not being a fan of pads OR bands, so you don't have to explain yourself to me.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I ride hunters and jumpers, but some of the best times I ever had were riding saddlebreds and morgans. There is nothing in the world like those high trots..and the best thing is that the truly great ones can do it with normal shoes. Those horses seemed to step high just to show off. To me, not being a "saddleseat" person with great knowledge, seems the way it should be. Like they hit a plateau and couldn't get better/higher etc., or didnt match up to the older styles, and went "artificial". It happens in every breed/style. And in many ways it sucks. Not saying shoes/pads are evil, but how they are used, at least in some ways. Sure most of them arent lame, they get amazing care, but i'd love to see them trained and not shod so heavy/high. But thats just me, a saddlebred and morgan dabbler.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Yes, but you did say you didn't think that jumping could be used as a comparison - and isn't a 4' jump an "exaggerated" height of what a horse might naturally do on their own? BTW, I indicated as you did that both training and shoeing could be considered a reaction. I *should* have made myself more clear by stating that the natural motion expressed by an ASB is not a reaction to shoeing OR training OR via pain.

                                Further, what I was explaining is that I have a horse that you might think has "exaggerated" motion, but it is his naturally. However, he is most comfortable exhibiting that motion in a pad rather than doing so without one.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by CA ASB:


                                  I've got one ASB who, even with her white feet, has the strongest/toughest feet of virtually any horse in the barn.
                                  FYI, I am not attacking you in any way, shape, or form. Isn't that just a myth? I have one gelding and one colt with all white feet, and another gelding with two white feet. None of them have ever had any issues with their feet and all actually have super feet. (Granted, the colt is only 6 months old on the 6th of this month, but his feet are awesome)

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Again, jumping a fence isn't a jerk reaction, so it doesn't matter if it is exaggerated or not.

                                    If I pinch you, you'll flinch. If I ask you to jump a creek, you'll just look at me like I'm crazy. Apples and Oranges.

                                    Some of these horses DO have exaggerated gaits, or they would all be ridden with flat shoes or *gasp* barefoot.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Sounds fair to ride them all in flat shoes and while we are at it we should remove all jumping from the three day event. Is that ok with everybody?

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Aptor Hours, I believe the point some people are trying to make is that if the "extreme" motion is natural in all these horses (I don't doubt that it is in some of them, but if it were so-very-common, they wouldn't be worth a lot of money, would they now?), why do they need chains, stretchies, weighted shoes, built up shoes, long toes, etc. etc. etc.? If the extreme motion is NATURAL, you shouldn't NEED to do any of that. Just like if a horse is NATURALLY tidy over fences, you don't NEED to pole it, or sore it, or anything else.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by greysandbays:
                                          If the rag-taggle reports I've heard from the AHA convention, the Arabian Association is headed down the same path.

                                          I D I O T S, the whole blooming works of 'em.

                                          If they want contests for creative farriery, then have farrier competions and leave the horses out of it.
                                          The Arabian association just allowed an increase in the length of the hoof to 5". Additionally, pads and shoes may be added to that length. Foolish if not downright cruel.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X