I realize that - I was hoping to get it back on track.
BTW your horse is very pretty - I am VERY partial to liver chestnuts with big white stars.
BTW your horse is very pretty - I am VERY partial to liver chestnuts with big white stars.
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Not the same at all.Originally posted by clipclopdeaf:
I knew most all of you never visit Saddle Seat people at horse shows (Arabian, Morgan, Saddlebred and TWH, and some other breeds). That pads are not heavy, just plastic something, depend on some weight, helping horse lift up shoe high stepping.
Among the list, there are some serious differences on the thickness and weight allowed.
And, if they're not adding weight, then why stack the pads, as is commonly done in some of them?
Surely a horse working in a groomed arena doesn't need over an inch of padding (leather, usually, BTW) for protection?"It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay
...just settin' on the Group W bench.Comment
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It isn't.Originally posted by Tiffani B:
I read somewhere that Mr. La Croix was banned from the Arab circuit for having cosmetic surgery done on some halter horses? Not sure if that's true. ..
Ol' Gene got nailed many years ago for a drug violation, and had the cojones to file a lawsuit stating that, since he was the best Arab trainer in the world, his clients would be unduly harmed by his suspension. AHSA didn't buy it, and neither did the judge.
The cosmetic surgery debacle involved David Boggs, who, BTW, is back and as big as ever...
And, IIRC, even though Gene LaCroix was one of the founders of the NSH registry, he got bounced out by that organization.
The Renai thing seems to me to be yet another attempt to make big $$ by convincing people that this particular Arab cross is just what they need..."It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay
...just settin' on the Group W bench.Comment
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I think it has a lot to do with this thread. There have been many generalizations about ASB shoeing, which was brought up because that is allegedly the "disaster" that the Morgan posters want to avoid.Originally posted by MissBri:
I realize that - I was hoping to get it back on track.
BTW your horse is very pretty - I am VERY partial to liver chestnuts with big white stars.
Anyway....
Thanks for the compliment! He thinks he's preeety, too!!!
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Was that the "liposuction" on the throatlatch, or am I thinking of something else?Originally posted by Ghazzu:
The cosmetic surgery debacle involved David Boggs, who, BTW, is back and as big as ever...
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I knew that Saddlebred and TWH wear any weight of wedge pads, they are plastic and with or without shoe band. See the picture of Morgan's shoe in first reply on page one. Of course some horses wear leather pads that is normal, no problem. But I am talking about plastic wedge pads, half inch high or one inch high, or maybe one-half inches high, also wedge weight too.
If trainer wants the horse stepping higher or maybe farrier has some problem with hoof that are up to trainer or farrier, not owner, who doing job.
One more thing, why Morgan wear it with shoe band, please explain more. I have seen all Morgan stepping high with wedge pad without shoe band, at horse shows. Morgan trainers and judges should know what rule of USEF or AMHA.KarenComment
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I think what some of them are saying, Karen, is that it IS the owner's responsibility to draw the line, and I completely agree.Originally posted by clipclopdeaf:
If trainer wants the horse stepping higher or maybe farrier has some problem with hoof that are up to trainer or farrier, not owner, who doing job.Comment
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Was that the "liposuction" on the throatlatch, or am I thinking of something else? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by asb_own_me:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ghazzu:
The cosmetic surgery debacle involved David Boggs, who, BTW, is back and as big as ever...
Liposuction *and* removal of parts of the muscles.
Oh, and there were also the tattooed sclera and the cosmetic ear jobs. But I don't know whether those were part of the final nailing.
I do recall that a previous owner of one of the horses provided photos of her mare's ears when she owned her, and they were (gasp) quite different from their later appearance..."It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay
...just settin' on the Group W bench.Comment
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Many comments have been made about the 'difference' between the 2 types of Morgans-Park horses vs classic Morgans. If you take the shoes off some of those park horses, turn them out, let them put on a little weight, think you would be surprised at how 'classic' they look.
My Morgan, who was shown English pleasure and classic pleasure, and could look very 'saddlebredy', is now my pleasure horse. He has added about 100 pounds, calmed down, is currently very fuzzy
, and the last trail ride we went on, had many comments about my 'classic' Morgan. His breeding is mainly Waseekas Nocturne line. I think some of the difference is how the horses are trained and presented.
\"It is never too late to be what you might have been\"Comment
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meanmom, you should see our Waseeka-bred mare. the only difference between her and the 'older blood' Lippett and Gov't bred mares is the different head. otherwise, you'd never know the difference.Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch
www.DifferentTimesEquestrianVentures.comComment
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Actually, it was a show horse's foot, part of the hoof wall of one foot had been lost. The additional pads and acrylic were used to match the length and angle of the damaged hoof to the undamaged foot. That horse did show the latter part of this past season, and at this time his foot has completely grown out and he is no longer wearing bands. It was most definitely not a "crappy foot" being "held together".Originally posted by Timex:
first off, the pictures posted in the OP were not valid to the arguement, were obviously NOT a show horse's foot, but rather, the bands were being used to keep a crappy foot together. why the condition of the foot is that bad, we don't know, so don't bother speculating. those pictures were inflammatory, meant to get people riled up, rather then think rationally.Comment
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What is an "overlong" foot?Originally posted by Sandy M:
Tiffani - I think any overlong foot, weighted on not, is a bad idea.
I would take a "long" foot any day over one so short that the horse is walking on its heel bulbs. Talk about going lame fast!
As has been pointed out, keeping a proper angle on the foot is the primary key to keeping the horse sound.
Personally, I think too short a foot is far more harmful in the long run than a longer hoof. I know plenty of Morgans that have shown English Pleasure and Park for years and years, with "long" hooves and 18 oz shoes that are sound, healthy and happy.Comment
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Actually, it was a show horse's foot, part of the hoof wall of one foot had been lost. The additional pads and acrylic were used to match the length and angle of the damaged hoof to the undamaged foot. That horse did show the latter part of this past season, and at this time his foot has completely grown out and he is no longer wearing bands. It was most definitely not a "crappy foot" being "held together". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by xemasabini:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Timex:
first off, the pictures posted in the OP were not valid to the arguement, were obviously NOT a show horse's foot, but rather, the bands were being used to keep a crappy foot together. why the condition of the foot is that bad, we don't know, so don't bother speculating. those pictures were inflammatory, meant to get people riled up, rather then think rationally.
um, okay then - a "damaged foot" being "held together" - if the foot has grown out, so now doesn't need the bands to hold it together - how else would you define that???Comment
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Difference in perception of the words, perhaps.Originally posted by khorsem:
um, okay then - a "damaged foot" being "held together" - if the foot has grown out, so now doesn't need the bands to hold it together - how else would you define that???
"Crappy foot" to me is a foot that is always crumbly, shelly, thin-walled.
"Damaged" is exactly that - a foot that is otherwise in good condition (not shelly, crumbly, etc) that has been damaged. In this case, through loss of part of the hoof wall.
And technically, the foot isn't being "held together", the shoe is being held on the hoof.
To balance a horses feet under such conditions (for example, a horse out playing, overreaches, pulls of shoe and part of hoof wall), you either build the "damaged" foot up to match the undamaged one, or trim the undamaged down to match. Trimming down may or may not be an option, but building up is always an option. So, if the horse hasn't torn off so much hoof wall that he is lame, then he is perfectly capable of continuing work...except, his feet don't match. So, build the one foot to match the other while waiting for the (long and slow) process of hoof growth to take care of things.
Basically, it boils down to, trim the other foot down to match, then have two feet without enough wall to nail a shoe onto, and wait a year for them both to grow out, or put padding and acrylic on the "damaged" one, band the shoe on, and keep working the horse (who is not lame or truly injured in any way) while the one hoof grows out.Comment
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Okay - when I said foot, I meant the whole package. I totally understand what you're saying, though, SS horses are my thingComment
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Glad we have an understanding of meaning - thanks! (sometimes the internet is a barrier to conversation, not a help!)Originally posted by khorsem:
Okay - when I said foot, I meant the whole package. I totally understand what you're saying, though, SS horses are my thingComment
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Well, I'd say that if a normal horse person looked at it and thought, "My GOD, don't these people EVER trim their horse's feet!?!", it's probably an "overlong" foot. If it takes a big thick pad to fill up the space between the overgrown hoof wall and the shoe, it's probably an "overlong" foot. If a general-purpose farrier who gets wrangled into being the show farrier worries about not having any nails long enough in case any of these things come flying off, it's probably an "overlong" hoof.Originally posted by xemasabini:
What is an "overlong" foot?
If a horse is walking on its heel bulbs, the toe is still too long.I would take a "long" foot any day over one so short that the horse is walking on its heel bulbs. Talk about going lame fast!
If the horse can move comfortably, there is no such thing as "too short a foot" unless you get very agressive with the trimming. Nobody but an idiot would do that, unless they are making the choice to trim little too short and make the horse temporarily a little sore in order to totally remove a compromised area of the hoof (bad nail holes, cracks, chips, etc). Even if the horse is trimmed a mite too short, there are no permanent ramifications; the stuff DOES grow back!Personally, I think too short a foot is far more harmful in the long run than a longer hoof. I know plenty of Morgans that have shown English Pleasure and Park for years and years, with "long" hooves and 18 oz shoes that are sound, healthy and happy.Comment
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Well, I'd say that if a normal horse person looked at it and thought, "My GOD, don't these people EVER trim their horse's feet!?!", it's probably an "overlong" foot. If it takes a big thick pad to fill up the space between the overgrown hoof wall and the shoe, it's probably an "overlong" foot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by greysandbays:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xemasabini:
What is an "overlong" foot?
I can understand where you are coming from, but I've had horses that made people have that immediate reaction - and the foot wasn't actually long. I had a horse that grew toe and heel at practically the same rate. End result, he had so much heel that his foot looked "long", yet that was his natural growth, and we kept him trimmed that way - to change his angles by taking off a lot of heel would have been very bad for his legs.
I had a horse come into my barn with a 2" toe and no heel to speak of. Was on his heel bulbs. Nothing left to trim off. Barely enough hoof to be able to put a shoe on to allow him to grow out a decent hoof. Three resets, and he finally had a bit of heel and is now barefoot and comfortable.If a horse is walking on its heel bulbs, the toe is still too long.
Agreed about poor farrier work, but it takes a long time to grow a hoof, and I'd prefer to have enough hoof to work with (for me personally, at least 3.5" to 4" of hoof) - always easier to take some off than to put some on!If the horse can move comfortably, there is no such thing as "too short a foot" unless you get very agressive with the trimming. Nobody but an idiot would do that, unless they are making the choice to trim little too short and make the horse temporarily a little sore in order to totally remove a compromised area of the hoof (bad nail holes, cracks, chips, etc). Even if the horse is trimmed a mite too short, there are no permanent ramifications; the stuff DOES grow back!Comment
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Thats why I buy my own nails...LoL. Okay, so I'm refering to my draft..he's wore pads before, does that count?Originally posted by greysandbays:If a general-purpose farrier who gets wrangled into being the show farrier worries about not having any nails long enough in case any of these things come flying off, it's probably an "overlong" hoof.Comment
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No surprise. USEF approved the rule change.
I'm going to the barn to apologize to my "classic" Morgan.
"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack LaytonComment
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