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Should I register him or not? update post #47

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  • Should I register him or not? update post #47

    Back in July of last year, I purchased a 2 year old (unregistered) Arab gelding as an endurance prospect. I found him through an ad on Craigslist and purchased him for a ridiculously low price. I asked the seller about registering Xander. I was told that I could either register Xander as a half-Arab because the seller was the mare owner at time of foaling or I could try to contact the stallion owner and see if I could get him to sign off on the registration as well so that Xander could be registered as a full Arab. Then seller told me a big song and dance about the goings on with the stallion owner and why Xander wasn't registered.

    So it took me a few months of contact stallion owner- he told me pretty much the same story as the seller except for a slight difference of wording (as in seller said gave the breeding to me, stallion owner said never paid for it). Anyway, stallion owner said he was sorry that I was caught up in the middle of this and he would do the paperwork for me if I paid a reduced stud fee.

    So this brings me to my question, do I register him or not? On one hand, I work for a breeding farm so I know how important it is for stallion owners to be able to track offspring. I also know if would be very helpful if I were to ever try and sell him (but my horses generally are lifetime horses). But on the other hand, it's expensive- besides having to pay the stud fee, it's also $375 to register him with the AHA. That's a lot of money that I could be putting into things like training or his saddle at the end of this year. He's also a gelding who's career will most likely be endurance- not something he needs papers for. Honestly, if I had the cash floating around willy-nilly, I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I'm just not sure at this point if the expense is worth it.
    Last edited by tabula rashah; Dec. 2, 2013, 01:32 PM. Reason: Update
    "As soon as you're born you start dyin'
    So you might as well have a good time"

  • #2
    JMO, but since his forte is going to be endurance, I would imagine any future buyer is going to buy him based on his performance and not his bloodlines since we're not talking like 5 figures here and he IS a gelding. If it was less than 300 bucks total, I'd say go for it, give him a little edge- but since it's expensive, I don't see it being worth it.
    By the way, how is the handsome boy doing?? Has he been spending the winter filling out?
    Kerri

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    • #3
      I think that registered horses generally have a bigger market if you go to sell, and may be valued more by potential buyers over grade horses. If you choose not to register now, can you do it in the future for that same price? If you've got a limited amount of time to register him, then I would do it now. If you can spend the $375 at any time and get him registered, then there's really no harm in waiting until you've got the dollars floating around.

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      • #4
        No, I would not. If you are not worried about showing on the AHA circuit...nope. However, I would have him recorded with pedigree with AWS (American Warmblood Society). You would have his pedigree down on paper and there you go. He is recorded. He is not a breeding animal so I would do the least expensive way.

        http://www.americanwarmblood.org/eligibility.html -He is not 100% Arab so on to the next link
        http://www.americanwarmblood.org/feesandforms.html about $175 with out year end awards program.
        Draumr Hesta Farm
        "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
        Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

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        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by kasjordan View Post
          JMO, but since his forte is going to be endurance, I would imagine any future buyer is going to buy him based on his performance and not his bloodlines since we're not talking like 5 figures here and he IS a gelding. If it was less than 300 bucks total, I'd say go for it, give him a little edge- but since it's expensive, I don't see it being worth it.
          By the way, how is the handsome boy doing?? Has he been spending the winter filling out?
          This is kind of the line that my thinking is going along too.
          BWT, he's doing great and he has definitely filled out a good bit. He still really looks like a baby though (typical Arab)- I'm thinking he'll either get started really lightly this coming fall/ winter or next spring.
          "As soon as you're born you start dyin'
          So you might as well have a good time"

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          • #6
            Ah he is full arab.. so you could leave sire out or just put names and no Reg # so breed is not there
            Draumr Hesta Farm
            "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
            Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

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            • #7
              if AHA knows he is full you cannot reg him as half, ie you would have to lie about his pedigree

              i would register him, this is his life line, also AHA does use endurnace for points and going for nationals etc
              besides if you sell him and his owner does want to do AHA stuff this will only help him

              registering a horse may not be important to "you" (a general you) but it can be very important to the horse and the breed, it will track his age, records of performance for any breed specific events, and his bloodline so if you love a horse you can look for another of similar breeding

              personal pet peeve but I hate it when ppl go on and on about how papers don't matter, yes they do b/c if we insit on papers we can keep better track of breeding records and we can help keep fraud down re age and preformance

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Simkie View Post
                I think that registered horses generally have a bigger market if you go to sell, and may be valued more by potential buyers over grade horses. If you choose not to register now, can you do it in the future for that same price? If you've got a limited amount of time to register him, then I would do it now. If you can spend the $375 at any time and get him registered, then there's really no harm in waiting until you've got the dollars floating around.
                This is pretty much what I was thinking. Yes, papers add value to a horse, but how much? Especially for Arabs. And I say this as a long-time Arab owner and lover of the breed.
                __________________________
                "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                the best day in ten years,
                you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

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                • #9
                  Since the stallion owner is willing to work with you, I would go ahead and do it now and put his training off for a little while longer since it doesn't sound like you can do both at the same time.
                  My blog: Crackerdog Farm

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                  • #10
                    Unregistered Arabs go very cheap near me. Registered ones get a much better chance. Is he registered with the AERC?
                    “Pray, hope, and don't worry.”

                    St. Padre Pio

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                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by microbovine View Post
                      Unregistered Arabs go very cheap near me. Registered ones get a much better chance. Is he registered with the AERC?
                      He is not yet registered with AERC as he is just coming 3- but he will be once he starts competing- as well as with USEF if we get far enough to be able to compete in FEI.
                      "As soon as you're born you start dyin'
                      So you might as well have a good time"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree with registering him.

                        He is still a kid, and who knows if he will suit the life of an endurance horse? Register him now while the stallion owner IS willing to work with you so that your horse has a back up career if endurance fails him.
                        Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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                        • #13
                          AHA has a pretty decent distance program, and National championship rides. A 50 and 100 miler and a competitive trail ride too, IIRC.

                          I'm not sure papers would add $375 value to a meh-quality arabian backyard trail horse (you can hardly give those away, registered or not), but to a nice endurance horse - if something ever happens and you have to sell him I think you'd get your $375 back. People seem to like having all their options open.

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                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by gaitedincali View Post
                            AHA has a pretty decent distance program, and National championship rides. A 50 and 100 miler and a competitive trail ride too, IIRC.

                            I'm not sure papers would add $375 value to a meh-quality arabian backyard trail horse (you can hardly give those away, registered or not), but to a nice endurance horse - if something ever happens and you have to sell him I think you'd get your $375 back. People seem to like having all their options open.
                            If it was just the $375 I wouldn't be questioning it so much, but it's also the stud fee on top of the $375 - it is more than what I paid for him.
                            "As soon as you're born you start dyin'
                            So you might as well have a good time"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It's more than 375- she said that's what AHA would charge and she would have to pay part of a stallion fee- so what we're talking about could be a chunk of change. I don't think she'd really hesitate if it was *just* a couple hundred bucks.
                              Kerri

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                              • #16
                                Ha! Great minds ;-)
                                Kerri

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                                • #17
                                  I'd register him. I sold a gelding as an endurance prospect based partly on bloodlines so people do care.
                                  Still Crazy After All These Years

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                                  • #18
                                    Register him.

                                    People always say "why register if you aren't breeding?" Well because there's always someone who will say your horse isn't what you say he is. While it shouldn't matter to you or anyone else, it will shut people up when you say you have his papers. BTDT.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I might make the stallion owner an offer, at whatever amount you can stomach. You can soften the offer by describing how the gelding can't be marketed at his current training level whether or not he is registered, so you need to focus your investment on the training and competition costs. But registration is also important and you're willing to offer xxx to get the papers. That the prior owner stiffed him is not your concern whatsoever. He has zero leverage in this negotiation, and might decide that even a little $ is better than no $. Worth a try.

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                                      • #20
                                        What does the AHA say about registering the horse without the stud fee having been paid? You are an "innocent third party" after all....

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