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Should I register him or not? update post #47

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  • #41
    It sounds like the stallion owner wants a fairly big chunk of change. Given your situation, I would be really hesitant to pay a large sum just to register.

    The endurance people I know really don't care about registration for a gelding. In fact, having him registered would probably benefit the stallion owner more if he is successful.


    There is the possibility that he wont be a good endurance horse. Then registration might open more doors for him if you think that you would use those avenues.

    If you decide to register him I agree with talking to the stallion owner and pointing out some of the benefits to his stallion that registering this horse might provide to see if you can get a reduced rate. And then check with AHA to see about their programs.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Halt Near X View Post
      Why not? Perhaps the horse would be provided for via a life insurance payout. Or the money is in an account earmarked for that and consequently not available (even though it exists) for registration papers. Or any number of things that aren't anyone's business but the owner's.

      It amazes me how people on this board can extrapolate people's current and future financial situation based on offhand comments and jump to conclusions about their ability to care for horses.
      I already explained why I was making that comment.
      We never know what odd word here or thought expressed there will set someone off, don't we.

      I was thinking the breeder had already cut the breeding fee, that had never been paid, in half, to help the OP with the registration.
      I agree, if that is not enough, ask again, or offer what you think you can pay and hope the breeder wants to go for that.

      I am not familiar with all of today's AHA requirements for older horses subject to registration that were not yet.
      The AHA registered horses I have had all came with their proper paper work already on board.
      If you like to study bloodlines, it sure is an asset to have those to go by and know you have the certificate to say that is true.

      Comment


      • #43
        I originally thought that it would be a waste of money but readig some of these comments there may be positives..especially regarding collecting points with the organizations. If the stallion-owner would co-operate and hep with papers and also accept a token stallion fee, I would think it worth it. If the horse became a super-winner, then he would have his own sales value, but it is nice to have papers and the stallion owner would get bragging rights...and the mare owner.
        Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

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        • #44
          Originally posted by HungarianHippo View Post
          I might make the stallion owner an offer, at whatever amount you can stomach. You can soften the offer by describing how the gelding can't be marketed at his current training level whether or not he is registered, so you need to focus your investment on the training and competition costs. But registration is also important and you're willing to offer xxx to get the papers. That the prior owner stiffed him is not your concern whatsoever. He has zero leverage in this negotiation, and might decide that even a little $ is better than no $. Worth a try.
          This is exactly what I would do.
          PA Hi-Ly Visible [PA Hi-Noon (by Magnum Psyche) x Takara Padrona (by *Padron)]

          Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique

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          • #45
            I'd definitely register him if its at all doable. AHA has some great distance programs and awards, as well as the "in-case" situation arises that makes sale a need, it would definitely help him out.

            Comment


            • #46
              If there really is an amnesty in April and the stud fee is reasonable, I'd register him I've heard the amnesty rumor several places

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              • Original Poster

                #47
                Update: So I finally worked it out with the stallion owner and I just needed the signature from the mare owner. But alas, the mare owner (shady guy that sold me Xander) is now being a complete cow and won't sign his part. He is mad that the I got it settled with the stallion owner and mad that I don't want him constantly calling and emailing me. He said he'd only sign them if I forked over $500 more for the horse (that I bought a year and a half ago). Nice huh? especially coming from a guy that claims to be a big proponent of bloodlines and research.
                Oh and I called the Arabian registry and even though I have the stallion owner's signature, the owner of the dam at time of breeding's signature, a signed bill of sale and the original emails stating that he would sign the papers- they flat out said they didn't care because they were protecting their members by not giving my horse papers. WTF?!
                I'm thinking now that I may just register him PHR and be done with it- partly just to shove it in the mare owner's face because he's gloating all over the place about how he won't let Xander get papers.
                I'm good at being uncomfortable so I can't stop changing all the time -Fiona Apple, Extraordinary Machine
                If I were your appendages, I'd hold open your eyes so you would see- Incubus

                Comment


                • #48
                  Well, thanks to the MO, now you have your answer. It's not worth the hassle to register your boy.
                  I'd do the same thing you sugguested and go with PHR. That way he's "someone on paper", even if it isnt with the AHA.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    I have had arabs from the mid 80's until last year. He died.

                    I would tell the MO, that you sign the paper, or FO. I totally HATE people who are like this. I would say thank you, or I would yell at the top of my lungs in person or on the phone or on the recorded message: FO! and a few more adjectives.

                    Yeah, guys like this are all yeah the bloodlines, but then he is being totally a asshat about $500 more dollars. Gee, maybe he wants your 401k too. Would that make him happy? He should be happy somebody took that horse off his hands.

                    Really sad for ya. Sorry. If you register part arab, just think of the major advantage you will have over the actual non purebreds! In the future if you sell him, the next owner might like the registration papers.

                    At least you know the lineage.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      If he is eligible for registration, you should do it while you can and are in contact with the stallion owner. Something could happen to "you" or to the stallion owner (where he may not be in the position to sign off..), and it will give the horse a better chance of a soft-landing if he has papers. If you need to sell him in the future, it will be an incentive for a buyer. The Arabian market has ticked up in the last few years.


                      Nevermind. Just read the update with the owners. Jerks. People have no compassion for the animals...

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        The Arabian market is not 'ticked up.' It's an absolute tragedy anymore. It just came across my FB feed this morning that a Nationally titled halter and EP stallion is for sale with a $10k price tag. This would never have happened years ago. You wouldn't have been able to touch one of his babies for that little $. It's a sad state of affairs.

                        That said, I think I would file a small claims suit against the seller, using the correspondence that you have as evidence. Maybe just the threat of a lawsuit would get this asshat's attention. If not, then take it all the way to court. As another poster said, it would help the horse's chances if something were to happen to you. It probably won't do much for his resale price, but it would likely influence the quality of buyer that he would end up with.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          "I asked the seller about registering Xander. I was told that I could either register Xander as a half-Arab because the seller was the mare owner at time of foaling or I could try to contact the stallion owner and see if I could get him to sign off on the registration as well so that Xander could be registered as a full Arab. Then seller told me a big song and dance about the goings on with the stallion owner and why Xander wasn't registered. "

                          Do you have anything in your bill of sale and packet from the mare owner to register this horse as 1/2 Arabian? If you have them signed off on a registration application for 1/2 arab, this clearly would allow you to submit this with all the rest of your paperwork to the AHA to get your horse registered purebred as it verifies the dam parentage.

                          If you have none of that, you have 2 choices: lawsuit IF you can prove they agreed to sign off on registration application - will cost more than the registration and horse's value, most likely.
                          or Warn them you will have no choice but to go public with their acts hampering your getting the horse registered, including any difference between the registration cost at time of sale VS. the registration cost now that the horse is older, and your upkeep and training costs to date for said horse. Would they please reconsider signing the paperwork?
                          If they say no, and the Registry still refuses to agree to register the horse (see if you can give the Registry a legal out as the mare owner's signature affirmation AT TIME OF SALE combined with the PAID IN FULL purchase price at time of sale... mare owner cannot 'change their mind' after the fact of closure of the sale, You might try having a lawyer write the letter requesting registry compliance on this issue citing their bylaws and rules as reference.)

                          If you must, and ONLY if you must, post your documents from seller proving their offer to sign registration papers in the on-line Arabian community and on horse-pro rating sites.

                          I hope it will not come to that.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Are both sire and dam's DNA on file with AHA? I wonder if you could do something with that route. Good luck. I don't know why people are such jerks.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #54
                              Originally posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
                              "I asked the seller about registering Xander. I was told that I could either register Xander as a half-Arab because the seller was the mare owner at time of foaling or I could try to contact the stallion owner and see if I could get him to sign off on the registration as well so that Xander could be registered as a full Arab. Then seller told me a big song and dance about the goings on with the stallion owner and why Xander wasn't registered. "

                              Do you have anything in your bill of sale and packet from the mare owner to register this horse as 1/2 Arabian? If you have them signed off on a registration application for 1/2 arab, this clearly would allow you to submit this with all the rest of your paperwork to the AHA to get your horse registered purebred as it verifies the dam parentage.

                              If you have none of that, you have 2 choices: lawsuit IF you can prove they agreed to sign off on registration application - will cost more than the registration and horse's value, most likely.
                              or Warn them you will have no choice but to go public with their acts hampering your getting the horse registered, including any difference between the registration cost at time of sale VS. the registration cost now that the horse is older, and your upkeep and training costs to date for said horse. Would they please reconsider signing the paperwork?
                              If they say no, and the Registry still refuses to agree to register the horse (see if you can give the Registry a legal out as the mare owner's signature affirmation AT TIME OF SALE combined with the PAID IN FULL purchase price at time of sale... mare owner cannot 'change their mind' after the fact of closure of the sale, You might try having a lawyer write the letter requesting registry compliance on this issue citing their bylaws and rules as reference.)

                              If you must, and ONLY if you must, post your documents from seller proving their offer to sign registration papers in the on-line Arabian community and on horse-pro rating sites.

                              I hope it will not come to that.
                              Honestly it's not worth all of that to register a gelding. I'll register him PHR and go on with life. He'll still be registered and DNA typed with his parentage to follow him, it just won't be AHA papers.
                              I'm good at being uncomfortable so I can't stop changing all the time -Fiona Apple, Extraordinary Machine
                              If I were your appendages, I'd hold open your eyes so you would see- Incubus

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #55
                                Originally posted by JJARAB View Post
                                Are both sire and dam's DNA on file with AHA? I wonder if you could do something with that route. Good luck. I don't know why people are such jerks.
                                Yes they are but AHA says that it doesn't matter if he won't s I gn they won't register.
                                I'm good at being uncomfortable so I can't stop changing all the time -Fiona Apple, Extraordinary Machine
                                If I were your appendages, I'd hold open your eyes so you would see- Incubus

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by tabula rashah View Post
                                  Honestly it's not worth all of that to register a gelding. I'll register him PHR and go on with life. He'll still be registered and DNA typed with his parentage to follow him, it just won't be AHA papers.
                                  So seller/ mare owner never gave you signed registration application to the half-Arabian registry when you bought the horse?

                                  You did check with the registry that they are the Owner of record of the dam -at time of foaling?

                                  If they didn't transfer in time, you could go to the prior owner in line of the dam and ask their help, giving them dates the foal was born and the date the mare was transferred to seller.

                                  People on the Arabian Horse Network site may be able to help you.


                                  PHR at least gives you proof of age.

                                  And you can always still enjoy the ride!

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Do you still have the option to register him half arab without the mare owner's signature?

                                    While I wouldn't give in to the cow-of-a-mare owner's demands, AHA papers would be nice for your horse. Your area has a lot of really great Arabian clubs/shows.
                                    Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

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