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Should I register him or not? update post #47

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Burbank View Post
    i would register him, this is his life line, also AHA does use endurnace for points and going for nationals etc
    besides if you sell him and his owner does want to do AHA stuff this will only help him

    registering a horse may not be important to "you" (a general you) but it can be very important to the horse and the breed, it will track his age, records of performance for any breed specific events, and his bloodline so if you love a horse you can look for another of similar breeding

    personal pet peeve but I hate it when ppl go on and on about how papers don't matter, yes they do b/c if we insit on papers we can keep better track of breeding records and we can help keep fraud down re age and preformance
    My thoughts exactly!!!

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    • #22
      I *think* I read recently that AHA is going to have an an amnesty program this year so that people can get horses registered that need to be registered. You might try contacting AHA and asking them or post on ABN and see if people in the know can give you more info. Seems to me that folks were mentioning April as amnesty month?

      I would register him in any case. See the thread in Sport Horse Breeding about someone trying to trade a "Hanoverian" - nobody can prove anything and the horse isn't worth much as a result.

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      • #23
        Yes, I would pay the stud fee and AHA fees to register him.

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        • #24
          Do it.
          "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

          ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

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          • #25
            Absolutely would. While I don't think the market for the average Arab is fantastic right now, not my forte so I could be wrong, an unpapered Arab, around me anyway, is almost certainly a giveaway in my area, and not easy to do that. Granted if he becomes very successful in endurance that is different but it is no guarantee.

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            • #26
              I like the idea of going back to the stallion owner and negotiating an even lower rate. Good luck!

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              • #27
                Originally posted by magicteetango View Post
                Absolutely would. While I don't think the market for the average Arab is fantastic right now, not my forte so I could be wrong, an unpapered Arab, around me anyway, is almost certainly a giveaway in my area, and not easy to do that. Granted if he becomes very successful in endurance that is different but it is no guarantee.
                My BO has one of these he got in on trade, and while it's a nice horse, he's worth zilch without papers. He also knows who the breeder is, but the guy isn't inclined to make a deal. If the breeder is inclined to make a deal, I would, perhaps pay for the breeding now & then register later. At this age it can't get much more expensive.
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                • #28
                  Definitely get papers. Even when I'm not concerned with registration, I do like that it spells things out, and it shows that I am the owner. Plus, when I look to buy a horse, if the horse is unregistered, I take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt. I usually tack on a few years because typically I think if a horse has been with a few owners, they forget how old the horse is, and the next person then forgets how old the horse is, and before you know it, you lose 3 or 4 years, if not more. And as others have said, for resale, it really is important to a lot of people.
                  “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
                  ¯ Oscar Wilde

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                  • #29
                    Arabians are almost worthless without papers, most people that like arabs want them. Bloodlines are very important to them, as is the ability to go to breed shows. You limit a huge portion of your potential buyers if you decide to sell, and even the endurance people like papers. Not only that but verifying the horse's age becomes impossible without papers
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                    • #30
                      If your reason not to register is "because you will always keep him", think again.
                      You really can't provide for all.
                      What if you get killed?
                      Doesn't sound like, if you don't have money for registration, you will have him in your will with money allocated to care for him the rest of his life, as some may say.

                      If you possibly can, when a horse is registrable, do so.
                      At least insures what his age is when there is some question down the line.

                      You can't believe how many registered horses people have for years and insist they are a certain age and they are wrong by several years, each way.

                      Age will be more important when a horse is old, say 25, not 20.

                      I would say, there are more reasons to register any one horse you can register than there are to let it slip while you have the chance to do so.

                      No problem if you register him and never again need registration papers for anything.
                      Sad if something happens and then you wish you had the registration papers for him.

                      If you possibly can find the money, I would go ahead with the paperwork.

                      Ask the association, some times they have specials for such horses and bring the fees way down to register such older horses.
                      The AQHA just did that last year, you could register older horses with the right foal paperwork people didn't get around to register for very little.

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                      • #31
                        Papers, and real Arab papers, not "American Warmblood", which adds no value. People who buy Arabians for decent money care about bloodlines and like proof the horse really is who and what you say he is.
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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by vtdobes View Post
                          What does the AHA say about registering the horse without the stud fee having been paid? You are an "innocent third party" after all....
                          You can't register as purebred without the stallion owner's paperwork.
                          You can not register him as 1/2 Arab if he is purebred...though people do, it is not supposed to happen...it defeats the idea of Half-Arab.

                          Sadly papers don't always get morre $$s for a horse...so it is a crap shoot. His training is what will add value for this horse IMO. A well trained horse is more likely to have, keep or go on to good homes.

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                          • #33
                            I think a lot of it depends on the amount the stallion owner wants. Your boy is a gelding, so breeding isn't an option. So the benefit comes down to resale value, potential to show and other incentive programs. Are they programs you could benefit from? Would you really choose to show in that venue (etc) if you could?

                            It is true that often Arabs w/o papers are not worth much, but at the same time- how much do papers increase value? Sadly there are a good number of Registered Pain, QH, TB, and Arabs that end up going to slaughter every year, so a sheet of paper for an Arab isn't going to magically transform a horse out of slaughter danger...

                            Another thing to consider that I don't believe was mentioned... do the bloodlines themselves add value... is the sire well known??? bloodlines desirable, etc.???

                            A lot of things to consider. In addition... is the money there to spend or could it be better spent or saved?

                            I'm going through the same thing with one of my ponies... she's retired... well known, but at her age is it worth paying the money for the transfer for a horse which is past her breeding years and just living out her retirement. In some ways it would be cool to officially have my name on her papers... in another way... why spend the money?

                            Good luck with your decision... whatever you decide will the right decision for you. Maybe the amnesty period will be rolled out soon-- that should save a significant amount, I would think.
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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by M.K.Smith View Post
                              I think a lot of it depends on the amount the stallion owner wants. Your boy is a gelding, so breeding isn't an option. So the benefit comes down to resale value, potential to show and other incentive programs. Are they programs you could benefit from? Would you really choose to show in that venue (etc) if you could?

                              It is true that often Arabs w/o papers are not worth much, but at the same time- how much do papers increase value? Sadly there are a good number of Registered Pain, QH, TB, and Arabs that end up going to slaughter every year, so a sheet of paper for an Arab isn't going to magically transform a horse out of slaughter danger...

                              Another thing to consider that I don't believe was mentioned... do the bloodlines themselves add value... is the sire well known??? bloodlines desirable, etc.???

                              A lot of things to consider. In addition... is the money there to spend or could it be better spent or saved?

                              I'm going through the same thing with one of my ponies... she's retired... well known, but at her age is it worth paying the money for the transfer for a horse which is past her breeding years and just living out her retirement. In some ways it would be cool to officially have my name on her papers... in another way... why spend the money?

                              Good luck with your decision... whatever you decide will the right decision for you. Maybe the amnesty period will be rolled out soon-- that should save a significant amount, I would think.
                              If you ever were to lose your mare's papers, if you are the owner of record with the association, you can ask for a copy of the papers.
                              If you have not transferred ownership with the association, the horse then becomes grade.

                              I see keeping horses up with registered horses as a management question, is what you do, like keeping their feet attended to regularly, vaccinate them, deworming, teeth floating.
                              Registration papers and that they be in order is just one more that goes with having a purposely bred horse.

                              We may never care that the horse is registered or not, but if he is, why not attend to that also, since it is an integral part of that horse?
                              You never know what may happen and if that the horse is registered will ever matter, from knowing the breeding to what age a horse really is.

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                                Papers, and real Arab papers, not "American Warmblood", which adds no value. People who buy Arabians for decent money care about bloodlines and like proof the horse really is who and what you say he is.

                                I only mentioned that because I thought he was a cross when I first read it. I thought she just wanted to document pedigree. This was the cheapest route if he was a cross and all you wanted were papers documenting who he was.
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                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                  Doesn't sound like, if you don't have money for registration, you will have him in your will with money allocated to care for him the rest of his life, as some may say.
                                  Whoa- insulting much? I currently have 5 horses including him- one of which is 19, the other 20. I've had them for 19 and 20 years respectively But I guess I should have gotten rid of them a while ago since I can't care for them.

                                  It's amazing how much people just read what they want into a post. I'm not sure where everyone thinks I am going to sell him??? I purchased him for my own personal horse, my horses are lifers (and in the couple occasions that I have sold a horse that I've raised- I know exactly where they are), all of my horses have arrangements to be provided for if something tragic happened, and if a monetary disaster happened to my DH and I, I would not have any trouble selling a trail horse that I trained (and there are several people on this board that I know IRL that could vouch for that).
                                  "Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by tabula rashah View Post
                                    Whoa- insulting much? I currently have 5 horses including him- one of which is 19, the other 20. I've had them for 19 and 20 years respectively But I guess I should have gotten rid of them a while ago since I can't care for them.

                                    It's amazing how much people just read what they want into a post. I'm not sure where everyone thinks I am going to sell him??? I purchased him for my own personal horse, my horses are lifers (and in the couple occasions that I have sold a horse that I've raised- I know exactly where they are), all of my horses have arrangements to be provided for if something tragic happened, and if a monetary disaster happened to my DH and I, I would not have any trouble selling a trail horse that I trained (and there are several people on this board that I know IRL that could vouch for that).
                                    No offense meant!
                                    I was saying that someone would bring the "I will see that, if something happens to me, he is taken care of in my will" and to that I was saying, if registration fees are a concern, then the much, much higher cost of providing for him is not to be expected.

                                    Didn't meant you can or can't do it, which I don't know.
                                    You DID say the cost of registration was a concern, that is why I was even touching on that.

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                      I was saying, if registration fees are a concern, then the much, much higher cost of providing for him is not to be expected.
                                      Why not? Perhaps the horse would be provided for via a life insurance payout. Or the money is in an account earmarked for that and consequently not available (even though it exists) for registration papers. Or any number of things that aren't anyone's business but the owner's.

                                      It amazes me how people on this board can extrapolate people's current and future financial situation based on offhand comments and jump to conclusions about their ability to care for horses.
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                                      • #39
                                        I would definitely register him.

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                                        • #40
                                          I think there are plenty of people who breed unregistered mares to a registered stallion and register the offspring as a 1/2 arab. You only have word of mouth on an unregistered horse even if it looks all arab and even 1/2 arab papers increases the value and life of the horse.

                                          I'm riding a 1/2 arab right now that is actually 7/8 arab and 1/8 saddlebred.
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