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Cattle industry comes clean about why it supports horse slaughter

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  • Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
    Anyway, it is not the number of farms that is the important number, it is the number of animals per farm. 100 family farms could have 1000 animals, but 1 large factory farm can have the same 1000.
    More ignorant talk.
    Doesn't even make sense.

    Do you think that, because someone may have 1 animal or 100, that is the definition of "factory farm"?

    This is becoming like a blind person describing an elephant by touch and insisting it is purple with neon green polka dots, because every other time it felt that kind of material it was told it was purple with neon green polka dots, yes sir.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
      This is true.
      I could be wrong about the number of farms but I do know that the majority of animal products come from factory farms/CAFOs/whatever you want to call them.
      More purple with neon green dots talk.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
        Geez, what's up with all this talk about how happy your cattle are? Irrelevant, because guess what, cattle are not horses!!!! Do you think horses are going to placidly mill around in your feedlots like cows may or may not do? Horses are prey animals -- they are nervous and spooky and have a flight instinct. Cows do not have those instincts.

        The cattle industry wants our horses to slaughter because it is horse owners who are going to breed and raise them. The cattle industry will not have to pay all those costs like they have to do for cattle ranchers. Then they get the horses cheap, send them to lots in their hell-trucks, pen them up to fatten them and get rid of drugs in the system, and it gets worse from there.

        There is no doubt in my mind that there are lobbyist hard at work to promote slaughter for money making reasons. They are using good intentioned pro-slaughter individuals who think they are helping with horse overpopulation as pawns.

        Why don't you ask those who do the annual " run with the bulls" just how placid cows are? Have you not seen the horses gorging themselves at the ever present round bale? Just like cows in a feedlot. Cows are prey animals and react to everything a horse will and in the same manner. I would get run over by both my horse and my milk cows if they are spooked by something.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
          You've got to be kidding me. A farm isn't considered family owned if the actual owner is Tyson Foods or a similar corporation. Large corporations own the majority of farms, this is basic knowledge.
          Honey, I'm in Arkansas, the home of Tyson's and one of the largest poultry producing states in the country. Tyson's doesn't own any farms. What they do is contract with FAMILY farmers to produce chickens to their specifications. The other poultry producers do they same. They don't actually own the land, buildings, etc. The farmer owns them. The farmer contracts with Tyson's, or Pilgrims or Con Agra and builds the broiler house to their specifications. Tyson's, etc. provide the chicks and the feed. The farmer gets paid a certain amount per pound of broiler produced plus an efficiency bonus based on pounds of chicken produced vs pounds of feed used. Tyson's hog production is different. I believe they contract with hog producers to produce the piglets but at weaning they are sent to Tyson owned feed lots.

          When people who have little to no knowledge about modern American agriculture talk about "corporate" farms, they don't realize that most of them are family corporations. Farm families often incorporate their farm businesses for tax reasons, to limit inheritance taxes, to limit personal liability and for other business reasons. So, yes, they are corporations but they are family owned corporations.
          Last edited by wireweiners; Mar. 7, 2013, 04:01 PM. Reason: more info
          I'm a second hand Vegan. Cows eat grass. I eat cows.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
            Geez, what's up with all this talk about how happy your cattle are? Irrelevant, because guess what, cattle are not horses!!!! Do you think horses are going to placidly mill around in your feedlots like cows may or may not do? Horses are prey animals -- they are nervous and spooky and have a flight instinct. Cows do not have those instincts.
            Honey if you were even half right we'd be riding Herefords instead of Haflingers.
            "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
              Animal liberators are entirely different from undercover investigators. And this has nothing to do with bio-security, the undercover investigators work for the company they are filming. Try again.
              Yes, of course.
              A person walks into a place is automatically identified as one or the other.

              Heck, the TSA can't tell which passenger is a terrorist and which is a child or geriatric person...and they are trained....


              Where ever did you that from?

              Oh, let me guess, the internet....

              Bonjour!

              Comment


              • Not taking sides or getting into the pissing match here, just clearing up some incorrect stuff:

                1) Cows are prey animals. They have the exact same fight or flight instincts as horses.

                2) Most farms in the USA are indeed family owned. Tyson, et al, subcontract their products from family farms. The farms/farmers have to follow strict guidelines and testing, but Tyson and others aren't one large "factory farm" somewhere.


                *Factory Farm is a high density meat producer, a lot of animals in less space requiring more antibiotics/meds to prevent disease spread and eliminate internal parasites to accelerate growth. Which maximizes profits. Factory Farms can be family owned the same way a factory making anything else can be family owned.


                *An example is here in CT, Guida's is a major/popular milk company. There are a handful of dairy farms that supply Guida's milk. Guida's isn't a farm, it's a company. The farms that own the cows aren't Guida's, they're dairy farms with family names. The commercial businesses have contracts with one another, but none are owned by the other. Same with most large/national food companies.


                *The words Factory or Commercial do not mean what some many think it means.

                *This does not mean I support/don't support either.

                *These are facts, not opinions.

                *Carry on.
                You jump in the saddle,
                Hold onto the bridle!
                Jump in the line!
                ...Belefonte

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                  More ignorant talk.
                  Doesn't even make sense.

                  Do you think that, because someone may have 1 animal or 100, that is the definition of "factory farm"?

                  This is becoming like a blind person describing an elephant by touch and insisting it is purple with neon green polka dots, because every other time it felt that kind of material it was told it was purple with neon green polka dots, yes sir.
                  How is that ignorant? A factory farm has thousands more animals then a non-factory farm. Once again the definition of factory farm is large-scale, industrialized agriculture.
                  Proud owner of Finger Lakes' Finest Devilshire.

                  Comment


                  • I'm aware of how Tyson and others operate. I don't consider a farm where the final product goes to a large corporation a family farm.
                    Proud owner of Finger Lakes' Finest Devilshire.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
                      Geez, what's up with all this talk about how happy your cattle are? Irrelevant, because guess what, cattle are not horses!!!! Do you think horses are going to placidly mill around in your feedlots like cows may or may not do? Horses are prey animals -- they are nervous and spooky and have a flight instinct. Cows do not have those instincts.

                      .
                      Um, sweetie, cows are prey animals too. If anything, they are more flighty than horses, except maybe feral mustangs. Haven't you ever watched a western movie and seen a stampede? Those really did happen.
                      I'm a second hand Vegan. Cows eat grass. I eat cows.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
                        How is that ignorant? A factory farm has thousands more animals then a non-factory farm. Once again the definition of factory farm is large-scale, industrialized agriculture.
                        There are many family farms with larger numbers of cattle that are not what you think as "industrialized agriculture".
                        You are still not getting this, obviously completely clueless about how we raise cattle, but that's ok.
                        Just keep talking about what you don't know, not listening to those that do, insisting you are right, of course.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by wireweiners View Post
                          Um, sweetie, cows are prey animals too. If anything, they are more flighty than horses, except maybe feral mustangs. Haven't you ever watched a western movie and seen a stampede? Those really did happen.
                          Feral horses don't have anything on your run of the mill, wild Florida crossbred heifer just off the truck.
                          At least the feral horses won't try to kill themselves.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
                            I'm aware of how Tyson and others operate. I don't consider a farm where the final product goes to a large corporation a family farm.
                            Um, where do you think the final product of any farm goes? Wheat farmers sell to corporations that process it into flour and they in turn, sell it to corporations that produce bread, etc. Corn farmers sell their products to companies like Purina for feed, or ethanol producing companies or Kelloggs for corn flakes. The only time farm produce is sold directly to consumers is the small producer that sells at farmers' markets and such. Nothing wrong with that, but the majority of farm products are sold to corporations.
                            I'm a second hand Vegan. Cows eat grass. I eat cows.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
                              How is that ignorant? A factory farm has thousands more animals then a non-factory farm. Once again the definition of factory farm is large-scale, industrialized agriculture.
                              Yes, and the term factory farm is coined by people who could not afford to buy more cows....


                              Let me see....

                              there are roughly 200.000 farmers left in the US, to feed nearly 400 million people.

                              Open land space, fields, are rapidly vanishing.

                              Profit margins have always been small.
                              Leading to country people to seek out other employment, thus leaving the farm...

                              Yes, you have to streamline, automate, economize.....
                              That means keep more animals with less work.


                              However...
                              Oh, goodness, how many ways can it be said, animals that ere not happy, cared for with their needs being considered will not thrive.

                              And frankly, animals don't give a rip about human companionship. Food and shelter, and that does pretty much cover their needs.


                              Tyson owning farms?
                              nope.
                              I am sure they own some, here or there....

                              but it is so much easier to contract out the production to - you should have guessed it - family farms with only a few chicken houses.
                              Naturally you won't fill your quota with a couple heritage hens....

                              Look, Sister: You are reaping the benefits of 'factory' farming, whether you like it or not. It includes your carrots as well as your Flax seed, as it does animal products, because without modern production methods the country would starve.
                              Got food? Thank a farmer!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
                                I'm aware of how Tyson and others operate. I don't consider a farm where the final product goes to a large corporation a family farm.
                                we seriously need a ROFLMAO icon!

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by wireweiners View Post
                                  Um, where do you think the final product of any farm goes? Wheat farmers sell to corporations that process it into flour and they in turn, sell it to corporations that produce bread, etc. Corn farmers sell their products to companies like Purina for feed, or ethanol producing companies or Kelloggs for corn flakes. The only time farm produce is sold directly to consumers is the small producer that sells at farmers' markets and such. Nothing wrong with that, but the majority of farm products are sold to corporations.
                                  What do they teach in grade schools any more about the world around us, when we get kids that short on basic knowledge as we are getting here?
                                  "Some believe milk comes from the grocery store" is not a joke any more.

                                  Comment


                                  • How do any of you know that I hold animal rights beliefs, or am aligned with PETA? Neither are true. I just don't trust people who make money from an activity whose practices are underregulated (slaughter) and even if there are good regs on the books (sometimes), enforcement is haphazard and grossly underfunded.

                                    Why am I supposed to be involved in damaging anything?

                                    I say, if meat industry businesses want to be permitted to do what they want, the sunshine has to shine in.

                                    Such a bunch of presumptuous morons. Because I am critical of slaughter, I am a bombslinging animal rightist criminal. Wow.
                                    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                                    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Lori B View Post
                                      How do any of you know that I hold animal rights beliefs, or am aligned with PETA? Neither are true. I just don't trust people who make money from an activity whose practices are underregulated (slaughter) and even if there are good regs on the books (sometimes), enforcement is haphazard and grossly underfunded.

                                      Why am I supposed to be involved in damaging anything?

                                      I say, if meat industry businesses want to be permitted to do what they want, the sunshine has to shine in.

                                      Such a bunch of presumptuous morons. Because I am critical of slaughter, I am a bombslinging animal rightist criminal. Wow.
                                      Really?

                                      you know that PETA has given financial aid to ALF and ELF members. Yeah, they said it was deranged individuals, but they paid the lawyers anyhow.....

                                      It's the old saying: you sleep with dogs, you get fleas.

                                      Or:
                                      Show me the company you keep and I tell you what you are.
                                      Or was it who...regardless.

                                      Like buying illegal opiates puts money in the Taliban war chest, supporting PETA and HSUS supports terrorists.
                                      The week Osama bin Ladin was killed one white guy made the FBI's most wanted list, at the 3d spot: Animal rights 'activist'

                                      Yeah, Baby. That's how the cookie crumbles.....

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
                                        Horses are prey animals -- they are nervous and spooky and have a flight instinct. Cows do not have those instincts.
                                        Seriously? You honestly think cows are not prey animals without a flight instinct? Um, what do you can a "stampede"?

                                        Have you ever been around a cow?
                                        They are just as watchful, just as spooky, and, believe it or not, more intelligent than most horses.

                                        Oh, and they are prey animals, too. Look it up.

                                        I just lost the ability to take you seriously.

                                        Comment


                                        • Damn, little did I know I was surrounded by evil factory farms! Drat those beef cattle farmers, hiding their nefarious factory farms right under my nose!

                                          One of the smallest beef cattle operations around where I live is 800 acres, and I have no idea how many cattle. Most of them are well over 1,000 acres with boatloads more cattle than my 'small farmer' neighbor.

                                          My county is proudly agricultural, and has no plans to change that. Not only are subdivisions discouraged, it's downright impossible to get one approved.
                                          Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.

                                          Comment

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