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Abraham & Venekl File Amended Ccomplaint Against AQHA Regarding Clone Lawsuit

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  • Abraham & Venekl File Amended Ccomplaint Against AQHA Regarding Clone Lawsuit

    The Plaintiff’s First Amended Complaint for the lawsuit filed by Abraham & Veneklasen v the American Quarter Horse Association was filed on Feb. 19 in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Amarillo Division.

    Jason Abraham, a rancher from Canadian Texas and Dr. Gregg Veneklasen, an Amarillo, Texas veterinarian are suing the AQHA for relief under the Sherman Antitrust Act, which is the watchdog over monopolies, due to their denial to register clones of registered Quarter Horses or their offspring that are sired by and out of registered Quarter Horses. Should they win, the plaintiffs are asking to recover threefold the damages sustained, which is allowed in antitrust cases, plus the cost of the suit, including reasonable attorney fees.


    What are your thoughts?

    Is raising horses a "sport" or an expectation to produce livestock such as cattle?

    Would cloning have increased the number of Impressive bred Quarter Horses?

    For the rest of the story go to
    The Elephant in the room

  • #2
    Well at least the low quality back yard breeders can't afford to clone. Don't think there would have been more Impressive bred horses as cloning is more expensive then live cover or ai.


    • #3
      When you're talking registration by a breed association, sport. This lawsuit isn't because the cloned horses aren't allowed to be ridden, or shown, or worked - it's because they're not allowed to be registered and gather points in a specific sports/show association.
      Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia


      • #4
        The lawsuit is because a clone is as much an AQHA horse as the one it was cloned from.
        THe AQHA is going to have a hard time denying registration to clones once it is contested in court.

        This is about the science behind this and there is no denying genetics make a clone as much an AQHA as the original.

        I am surprised the AQHA is letting this suit be brought to court.
        I heard it is because some politics involved, a hard headed director getting ugly about it, saying "over his dead body they would prevail", making this personal.

        I would think that, after losing the Melvin Hatley "white rule" lawsuit, the AQHA would walk a bit more carefully, when it comes to such lawsuits.

        Breeders have certain rights too, even the right to, at times, be stupid.

        I wish, if the AQHA was going to use their resources for lawsuits, they would have done so on the HHYP problem.
        THAT was one place they could have prevailed, where clear harm to the horses may have been easy to present to the court.

        In this case, well, I don't see how the AQHA has a hoof to stand on this, the science is too clear even to those that don't know science.
        An AQHA clone is still an AQHA horse, anyone can understand that.


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
          An AQHA clone is still an AQHA horse, anyone can understand that.
          And an AI TB is just as much of a TB as any other, but the Jockey Club seems to have successfully resisted efforts to get them to accept AI foals.

          In the end, the AQHA is a private organization, so if the courts follow the sort of precedent that's around likely they will be able to continue to disallow clones.
          According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.


          • #6
            Originally posted by loshad View Post
            And an AI TB is just as much of a TB as any other, but the Jockey Club seems to have successfully resisted efforts to get them to accept AI foals.

            In the end, the AQHA is a private organization, so if the courts follow the sort of precedent that's around likely they will be able to continue to disallow clones.
            The Jokey Club knows that won't last if one breeder wants to contest that in court, they are holding their breath on that one.

            The Australian Jokey Club had that happen already.

            There is not enough business in JC for any one breeder to care to sue them over that, it is a very mature industry and anyone trying that would be blackmailed, making their gain thru a lawsuit an empty win, when no one would buy from or train for them.

            The AQHA lost the white rule lawsuit and it was not as clear cut a case as this one is, hard to see what they are thinking on this one.

            The ones bringing up the lawsuit have been petitioning the AQHA for over 10 years on this, finally decided to go the lawsuit route.
            It is really a good science question and that is what they are standing on.
            Hard to stand against cloning when they have accepted AI and embryo transplant already.


            • Original Poster

              I will disagree with you on this one. They, the registration body, do have the right via their membership to decide whether or not cloning should be allowed.

              The TB industry ony allows for live cover. They stood strong against the breeders who wanted A.I.

              The Arabian Registry stood firm against L D Pistol and the "clone" who was shipped across the border into Mexico...only a few miles from Pistol whom it was said was having fertility problems.

              Horses are livestock however they are also for sport or entertainment or usage. Mass production was never the intent when one studies the bylaws and the mission statements of the registration bodies when they were founded (of course they did not know the ensuing challenges that would evolve)]

              Saddlebreds reward the producing mares with the designation Brood Mare Hall of Fame. This was not diluted as it was very hard for a mare to produce two world champions or combinations with reserve in 3G 5G and Fine Harness...that is it...now we have a mare who is kicking out embryos like there is no tomorrow. She has "won" the right to be an BHF she was born in 93 and started kicking them out 2001 She has had 22 foals..and yes some have been World Champions...I would never breed to that line for one reason. There is nothing special...they just played the numbers game.

              AI has been attributed to the demise of colt sales. It used to be only those with a great deal of money could import a stallion...and due to distance hauling...a farm would buy a son and stand him at stud in their area. Now, with AI and a reasonable price, anyone can breed to any stallion...

              I support the AQHA in their stand against cloning.
              The Elephant in the room


              • #8
                But, but, you see, this is not about what any one association wants or can do, but what rights the breeders have.

                The court has already ruled on that, there is a precedent, the Melvin Hatley white rule lawsuit decided that.

                No one can deny that a clone of a duly registered AQHA horse IS an AQHA horse.
                As such, it should be subject to registration.

                Now, if that is good or bad for the association is immaterial to a judge, just that rights prevail and laws be upheld.
                Here, the law already spoke, breeders have some basic rights to fair trade.

                Guess that we will see what happens.

                I don't really have an opinion if that would be good or bad or indifferent for the AQHA or the horse industry in general, my crystal ball is cloudy on that one.
                This is not about that, but more basic, about the rights of any one breeder.
                The science is there that a clone from an AQHA registered individual is for all purposes as much an AQHA horse as the parent, just as if it was the natural offspring of it.
                I don't see how the AQHA will get around that one.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                  The Jokey Club knows that won't last if one breeder wants to contest that in court, they are holding their breath on that one.

                  The Australian Jokey Club had that happen already.

                  I think you'll find that the Australian Jockey Club WON that suit.

                  Now, Oz is not the U.S., but given the courts' pretty heavy support of private clubs and businesses to pretty much choose their members however they want, as well as the fact that people who want to breed and show cloned QHs could start their own registry with their own rules, I'm not sure I'd hold my breath on this one. YMMV.
                  According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.


                  • #10
                    I think it is foolish for AQHA to waste $$$$ fighting this. They ended up settling on the embryo transfer lawsuit, they'll end up losing or settling on this one, after spending God-knows how much money. The basic argument is the same.

                    White rule, embryo transfer..losing/settling on cloning will be next.