• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Horse Slaughter Ban Lifted by Oklahoma Senate -- Needs Gov Signature -- YOU can help!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Years and years ago, I used to buy the orphan foals from the local kill plant. Once, after paying for some foals, I got turned around and walked through the wrong door, straight into the kill chamber. It was clean and quiet, except for the clanking of the equipment and other things. The horses standing outside, waiting, were just standing there. There wasn't any histrionics of any horse, no frenzied neighing or kicking or fighting, except when some studs were in the same pen.

    I was there several times over the course of a year, not to mention a friend and other friends who bought the foals. The horses were fed up in big corrals or put on pasture to fatten up.

    The only downside I saw was one guy who thought it was funny a foal was ran over by some big horses. He was there and then he was gone the next time I was there.

    The owners wife actually showed QH's only she never would tell where her horses came from....?? Read between the lines there. HA!

    I've seen the horrific vid from Mexico of the horse being stabbed but, from what I understand now, there are regulated slaughterhouses in Mexico, which I didn't know. The vid I saw was from one which wasn't.

    Annnnnddd....lastly, where are these horses supposed to go if they can't be fed by the owners? I know I can't take on anymore and people I know are trying to give horses away. I've turned down about four in the last month.

    I'll take this direct report from someone who's seen it with their own eyes! Far better to have plants in the USA. The 'ban' has just pushed the problem over the borders. There can be NO doubt that the horses suffer more for it.
    "Friend" me !

    http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
      As you are notorious for not posting your sources, I'll offer to post mine when you post yours.
      Actually I usually do provide them...just not when you ask for the same over and over and over...wait a week and ask for it again.

      I will therefore reply, as you have when I have not provided a source...you don't have any. You can not prove your statement...therefore you are telling stories out of the playground.

      You have acknowledged you have not viewed a slaughter plant therefore your views are also not from first hand current experience.

      It makes sense that a shorter trip, monitored numbers in vans, ongoing recording tapes set up in the slaughter chute area will result in greater profits and when that occurs, businesses usually get on board.

      Those of us who volunteered to be "watchers" at Fort MacLeod did make a difference. I would suggest that others offer to do the same.
      The Elephant in the room

      Comment


      • #23
        Is there any proof that the captive bolt gun does not, in fact, render them completely unconscious? I haven't done the research on horses, but I know that the argument that the animals are still 'alive' after the bolt gun are completely unfounded in hogs and cattle.....

        Temple Grandin has some great videos on the slaughter process....
        To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.

        Comment


        • #24
          I wonder why this is the only place this is coming up?
          You think such news would be all over the horse world?

          Is there really a ban and is there really a bill to maintain the ban?
          OP, can you give more information on this?

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
            I wonder why this is the only place this is coming up?
            You think such news would be all over the horse world?

            Is there really a ban and is there really a bill to maintain the ban?
            OP, can you give more information on this?
            It's not the only place it's coming up, I've been reading about it for days now.
            I'm surprised that those on this forum who are so 'in the know' about these things, didn't. [know that is]

            Yes there is a ban in OK.

            More info.?
            http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2013/0.../#.US-5cka4bB4

            http://quarterhorsenews.com/index.ph...slaughter-pass

            http://www.meatpoultry.com/News/News...ban.aspx?cck=1

            http://farmprogress.com/story-horse-...kd-ok-25-95324
            Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

            http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

            Comment


            • #26
              It would be the first smart things the politicians have done in quite a while. Why not spend your energies making transport better.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
                I'll take this direct report from someone who's seen it with their own eyes! Far better to have plants in the USA. The 'ban' has just pushed the problem over the borders. There can be NO doubt that the horses suffer more for it.
                "Pushed over the border", that is what I thought and figured out after I heard about the ban. That's pretty much all that has happened.
                GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                Comment


                • #28
                  Yanno, if you don't want your horse to go to auction and possibly going to the killers, call the vet up and put them down, thereby knowing for sure where they went. If you can't afford that, I've read there is an entity in CO which will help pay to euth your horse, something like half the cost. Also, I've read there are euth clinics but I've never put eyes on them and don't know much about them.

                  But, if someone is to the end of their rope, against the wall and afraid of the neighbors turning them in, causing even more problems for both horse and human, the auction is the place to go. Better than being turned out to fend for themselves and hopefully not die of thirst or eaten by a cougar or chased till they go over a cliff, all possibilities in my part of the world.
                  GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                    It's not the only place it's coming up, I've been reading about it for days now.
                    I'm surprised that those on this forum who are so 'in the know' about these things, didn't. [know that is]

                    Yes there is a ban in OK.

                    More info.?
                    http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2013/0.../#.US-5cka4bB4

                    http://quarterhorsenews.com/index.ph...slaughter-pass

                    http://www.meatpoultry.com/News/News...ban.aspx?cck=1

                    http://farmprogress.com/story-horse-...kd-ok-25-95324

                    Thank you, that is interesting.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
                      I'll take this direct report from someone who's seen it with their own eyes! Far better to have plants in the USA. The 'ban' has just pushed the problem over the borders. There can be NO doubt that the horses suffer more for it.
                      Thousands of horses still shipped across the borders to Canada and Mexico even when we had plants processing in the U.S. Opening plants again will not stop horses being shipped across the borders for slaughter.
                      Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                      http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                      http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post
                        Yanno, if you don't want your horse to go to auction and possibly going to the killers, call the vet up and put them down, thereby knowing for sure where they went. If you can't afford that, I've read there is an entity in CO which will help pay to euth your horse, something like half the cost. Also, I've read there are euth clinics but I've never put eyes on them and don't know much about them.

                        But, if someone is to the end of their rope, against the wall and afraid of the neighbors turning them in, causing even more problems for both horse and human, the auction is the place to go. Better than being turned out to fend for themselves and hopefully not die of thirst or eaten by a cougar or chased till they go over a cliff, all possibilities in my part of the world.
                        This is great and all, but what about the drugs Dobbin has been ingesting for years that are either not allowed EVER in meats for human consumption, or those that require a clearing time?

                        All those thinking that Big Corp. is gonna' want to buy the horses we slaughter 'cause they have buyers for the end product are forgetting the huge kerfuffle ongoing in Europe right now over horse meat being found in foods labeled 100% beef, AND that meat testing + for Bute.

                        The EU buyers of horsemeat, I would guess, are going to insist on that passport system being instituted here in the US for horses intended for the human consumption market like they have in Europe... and maybe then some more safety measures... considering the tainted meat they are presently having issues with which was supposedly from the continent [ie where there are passports and all drugs the animal has been given are logged therein]

                        I wouldn't eat horse myself. But I also wouldn't eat it even if it wasn't because of what it was and my person revulsion, but because of what may/may not be in it. And I certainly don't think it's A-ok to sell it under the premise that it's wild, free range, grass fed mustang.
                        Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                        http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          The timing on this is a bit odd. Not only do we currently have all of the EU embroiled in an undisclosed-horsemeat scandal; the law that any horse entering the EU foodchain has to have a "passport" including lifetime medication records as of July 2013 but also this "sequestration" biz may considerably reduce the numbers of meat inspectors available to monitor our major food species NOW.

                          If I remember correctly, the final straw that shut down the last US plants was when the government de-funded inspectors to cover them. I just don't see that initiative being RE-funded NOW.

                          Suspect this will die in committee.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                            This is great and all, but what about the drugs Dobbin has been ingesting for years that are either not allowed EVER in meats for human consumption, or those that require a clearing time?

                            All those thinking that Big Corp. is gonna' want to buy the horses we slaughter 'cause they have buyers for the end product are forgetting the huge kerfuffle ongoing in Europe right now over horse meat being found in foods labeled 100% beef, AND that meat testing + for Bute.

                            The EU buyers of horsemeat, I would guess, are going to insist on that passport system being instituted here in the US for horses intended for the human consumption market like they have in Europe... and maybe then some more safety measures... considering the tainted meat they are presently having issues with which was supposedly from the continent [ie where there are passports and all drugs the animal has been given are logged therein]

                            I wouldn't eat horse myself. But I also wouldn't eat it even if it wasn't because of what it was and my person revulsion, but because of what may/may not be in it. And I certainly don't think it's A-ok to sell it under the premise that it's wild, free range, grass fed mustang.
                            Most drugs are out of the system in a few days.
                            Very, very few leave residues any longer.
                            Most horses are not "given drugs" anyway.
                            Seems that horses are kept in pastures or feedlots by the traders for the required time to eliminate most drugs, when they don't know if a horse had anything given recently.
                            There is testing for any drugs also.

                            The question of drugs is a management one for the slaughter plants, that's all.

                            With cattle, any time you sell any one animal to slaughter, you have to sign that it was not given anything illegal or if legal it was past the withholding period.
                            If you lie, it is at least 1 year in jail and $10,000 for each animal and up from that.
                            The few cattle residues a year from millions slaughtered are from dairy cattle, from mastitis treatment antibiotics and the whole dairy can be shut down from that, not a chance many are willing to take.

                            I know, from the ones testing the horses at the TX plant long ago, that they were testing EVERY horse, it was in their in house regulations, way above what the USDA requires.
                            Too expensive to send a lot all the way to it's far away destination and be positive when tested there and have it all turned back.
                            They were not taking any chances.

                            Today, there are even better testing protocols, I would not worry about that.

                            Now, if they sell meat under false advertising, saying it is from feral horses and it is not, I guess a court will have to decide if that is against their labeling laws.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                              Most drugs are out of the system in a few days.
                              Very, very few leave residues any longer.
                              Most horses are not "given drugs" anyway.
                              Seems that horses are kept in pastures or feedlots by the traders for the required time to eliminate most drugs, when they don't know if a horse had anything given recently.
                              There is testing for any drugs also.

                              The question of drugs is a management one for the slaughter plants, that's all.
                              Tell that to the consumers.

                              My point is only that with the situation as it is now in Europe from supposedly clean horses [and the discovery of Bute in that meat] I would highly doubt that the demand for horsemeat will remain what it is.

                              Add in that the US is not terribly interested in implementing a passport system- it's too much like Big Brother!- and well, I just can't see the financial sense in investing in new plants to slaughter US non-passport holding horses.

                              'Audits carried out by the European Commission Food and Veterinary Office have consistently highlighted that current Canadian Food Inspection Agency standards are insufficient and do not meet EU food safety standards...

                              A 2010 EU regulation requires that only meat from horses with a known medicinal treatment history can be exported to the EU. However horsemeat from North American (including Canada) continues to be exported to the EU even though the FVO audits have concluded that the equine identification documents for horses originating from the U.S. are insufficient to meet the EU’s food safety regulations. '

                              http://www.habitatforhorses.org/hsic...b_source=pubv1
                              Last edited by Angela Freda; Feb. 28, 2013, 08:39 PM.
                              Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                              http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                                If I remember correctly, the final straw that shut down the last US plants was when the government de-funded inspectors to cover them. I just don't see that initiative being RE-funded NOW.

                                Suspect this will die in committee.
                                The Governor's office has been taking a poll on the issue, and when I spoke with one of her aide's he said the calls have been overwhelmingly against slaughter.
                                Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                                http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                                http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                                  Tell that to the consumers.

                                  My point is only that with the situation as it is now in Europe from supposedly clean horses [and the discovery of Bute in that meat] I would highly doubt that the demand for horsemeat will remain what it is.

                                  Add in that the US is not terribly interested in implementing a passport system- it's too much like Big Brother!- and well, I just can't see the financial sense in investing in new plants to slaughter US non-passport holding horses.
                                  They found bute in a very small percentage and so small a residue as not being a safety risk.
                                  Just because we can test for residues, you have to read past that to what that testing shows.

                                  There is a bit of a problem for the consumer, there is going to be more and more people and less and less to eat and I expect soon even the USA won't be turning their nose up at horse meat either, when there is not enough meat to go around.
                                  Yes, meat is important for human health, all that vegan propaganda is wrong.
                                  While being a vegan may work for some, if they eat right and take many supplements, most humans need a varied diet to be and stay healthy and some animal proteins are an important part of that.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Thanks for the number, now I can call and let them know that I support their decision to lift the ban on slaughter. I think somebody needs to buy that secretary a box of wine or two, she gonna need it
                                    www.michelesfindinghappiness.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Darn, I don't even have any popcorn!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        ....
                                        "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Who will buy USA horses for consumption? I think that ship sailed.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X