• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Horse Slaughter Ban Lifted by Oklahoma Senate -- Needs Gov Signature -- YOU can help!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by TKR View Post
    Bluey - I am hardly a nutjob or connected to PETA as you would like to "label" me or anyone else who opposes horse slaughter. Yes, I am an animal activist and proudly wear that label as it applies to someone who cares about animal welfare. I get really sick of people deciding that the best way to "fix" a "problem" with animals is to simply kill them and walk away. Why indeed does a horse have to have a "last use" as dinner? I actively work in rescue of pet animals and horses constantly -- wish I was smarter and more wealthy and could do more. But I refuse to accept that slaughter is the answer. It wouldn't matter if breeding was all done by discriminating breeders and there were better laws about horsekeeping or any other way you might consider -- there would still be those who neglect or abuse them and throw them away because they simply don't care. I don't care if horses have been eaten over the years or it's accepted in Europe or Asia -- it's wrong! With horse slaughter many very viable, young and nice horses are quickly snapped up for slaughter instead of getting a real chance. I doubt seriously it will be monitored down every avenue as far as transport, care or the actual kill floor to insure "humane" treatment. It's just another disgusting thing that people do to a very noble creature for reasons of greed who deserve much better. If it weren't for Tippi Hedren, Defenders of Wildlife, Causes and other groups who monitor and make a difference, the plight of animals would be much worse. I started this thread so that those who wish could email or call the governor's office and say "NO" to the repeal of the ban on horse slaughter. If you feel differently, fine. However, denigrating those who are against it and labeling us in a derogatory manner is total *BS*!
    PennyG
    Since you are a Rara...please share YOUR solution. The slaughter industry removes about 150,000 horses out of the million horse excess inventory (or there abouts) ..counties have no money...rescues are full...so WHO is going to take care of this number of horses. WHO is going to pay for them..Please share YOUR SOLUTION for that numberr of horses to be removed and "taken care of safely" in 12 montrhs.

    Anyone can be against something...and they have a right to their opinion...but if they want to ban something...they better present a workable alternative.
    The Elephant in the room

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
      Since you are a Rara...please share YOUR solution...

      Anyone can be against something...and they have a right to their opinion...but if they want to ban something...they better present a workable alternative.
      .
      Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

      http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
        .
        The most intellegent thing said by the RARAs.
        The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 7HL View Post
          The most intellegent thing said by the RARAs.
          And your intelligent submissions include...?



          By the way Fairfax' claim that the meat in Canada gets tested for banned substances, I would love to see his source for that info cause this is what I found:

          A letter to Crosland from CFIA's chief veterinary officer, Dr. Ian Alexander, says that between 2012 and 2013, 385 horses were scheduled for sampling, which is less than half a per cent of the estimated number of horses killed annually in Canada.

          http://www.cbc.ca/m/rich/news/story/...da-foodie.html


          Oh yeah, that sounds like a thorough testing....
          Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

          http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

          Comment


          • Originally posted by hunter.pleasure View Post
            When slaughterhouses move into communities, violent crime and sexually violent crime rates rise:


            Now that is grasping at straws.
            The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
              And your intelligent submissions include...?


              And yours????

              Just regurgitated RARA talking points.
              The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 7HL View Post


                Now that is grasping at straws.
                Interesting that you left out the link that poster provided.

                http://oae.sagepub.com/content/22/2/158.abstract

                A university study that included this conclusion:

                This study uses panel analysis of 1994-2002 data on nonmetropolitan counties in states with “rightto-work” laws (a total of 581 counties) to analyze the effect of slaughterhouses on the surrounding communities using both ordinary least squares and negative binomial regression. The findings indicate that slaughterhouse employment increases total arrest rates, arrests for violent crimes, arrests for rape, and arrests for other sex offenses in comparison with other industries. This suggests the existence of a “Sinclair effect” unique to the violent workplace of the slaughterhouse, a factor that has not previously been examined in the sociology of violence.
                Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                  Interesting that you left out the link that poster provided.

                  http://oae.sagepub.com/content/22/2/158.abstract

                  A university study that included this conclusion:

                  This study uses panel analysis of 1994-2002 data on nonmetropolitan counties in states with “rightto-work” laws (a total of 581 counties) to analyze the effect of slaughterhouses on the surrounding communities using both ordinary least squares and negative binomial regression. The findings indicate that slaughterhouse employment increases total arrest rates, arrests for violent crimes, arrests for rape, and arrests for other sex offenses in comparison with other industries. This suggests the existence of a “Sinclair effect” unique to the violent workplace of the slaughterhouse, a factor that has not previously been examined in the sociology of violence.
                  Curious, that is the same out of the ballpark type arguments the religious right makes to keep standard racing banned in TX.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                    Back to economics....year one

                    The slaughter plant is employing AMERICANS right in the United States.
                    Oh yes, lots and lots of jobs!!!

                    BELTEX CORP
                    3801 N GROVE ST
                    FORT WORTH, *TX *76106-3720 *|* view map
                    (817) 324-1136
                    www.frontiermeats.com

                    COMPANY DETAILS
                    Have fresher information? | Update now
                    • Location Type: Headquarters
                    • Industry: Meats and Meat Products

                    • Ownership: Private
                    • Year Founded: 1972
                    • Sales Range: $25,000,000 to $74,999,999
                    • Employees: 100 to 250

                    http://start.cortera.com/company/res...j/beltex-corp/



                    Cavel International Inc
                    Own This Business?
                    Edit Company Info
                    8510 Gurler Road
                    Dekalb, IL 60115-8665 map
                    Ads

                    Employees
                    50 to 99

                    http://www.manta.com/c/mm8hc77/cavel-international-inc



                    Dallas Crown, Inc
                    Own This Business?
                    Edit Company Info
                    2000 W Fair Street
                    Kaufman, TX 75142-1868 map
                    Ads

                    Employees
                    50
                    50 **

                    http://www.manta.com/c/mmgcpby/dallas-crown-inc


                    Your point demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge....back to the books for you...
                    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                      Interesting that you left out the link that poster provided.



                      A university study that included this conclusion:

                      This study uses panel analysis of 1994-2002 data on nonmetropolitan counties in states with “rightto-work” laws (a total of 581 counties) to analyze the effect of slaughterhouses on the surrounding communities using both ordinary least squares and negative binomial regression. The findings indicate that slaughterhouse employment increases total arrest rates, arrests for violent crimes, arrests for rape, and arrests for other sex offenses in comparison with other industries. This suggests the existence of a “Sinclair effect” unique to the violent workplace of the slaughterhouse, a factor that has not previously been examined in the sociology of violence.
                      I don't read it as a slaughter house issue but a reason not to have "right to work" laws.
                      The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                        Oh yes, lots and lots of jobs!!!
                        .

                        Yes every job created is a job. I am glad you agree.
                        The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by 7HL View Post
                          I don't read it as a slaughter house issue but a reason not to have "right to work" laws.
                          http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1027987

                          Although right-to-work states may be more attractive to business, this does not necessarily translate into enhanced economic verve in the right-to-work state if there is little “trickle-down” from business owners to the non-unionized workers. Findings are that the number of businesses and self-employed are greater on average in right-to-work states, but employment, wages, and per-capita personal income are all lower on average in right-to-work states.
                          http://www.minnpost.com/community-vo...rk-legislation


                          Unemployment & low wages breeds crime.
                          The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                            Oh yes, lots and lots of jobs!!!

                            BELTEX CORP
                            3801 N GROVE ST
                            FORT WORTH, *TX *76106-3720 *|* view map
                            (817) 324-1136
                            www.frontiermeats.com

                            COMPANY DETAILS
                            Have fresher information? | Update now
                            • Location Type: Headquarters
                            • Industry: Meats and Meat Products

                            • Ownership: Private
                            • Year Founded: 1972
                            • Sales Range: $25,000,000 to $74,999,999
                            • Employees: 100 to 250

                            http://start.cortera.com/company/res...j/beltex-corp/



                            Cavel International Inc
                            Own This Business?
                            Edit Company Info
                            8510 Gurler Road
                            Dekalb, IL 60115-8665 map
                            Ads

                            Employees
                            50 to 99

                            http://www.manta.com/c/mm8hc77/cavel-international-inc



                            Dallas Crown, Inc
                            Own This Business?
                            Edit Company Info
                            2000 W Fair Street
                            Kaufman, TX 75142-1868 map
                            Ads

                            Employees
                            50
                            50 **

                            http://www.manta.com/c/mmgcpby/dallas-crown-inc


                            Your point demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge....back to the books for you...
                            Nope...back for you with your california buddy

                            My point was...they EMPLOY AMERICANS...now lets look further...they purchase goods and services...electricians...plumbers...construction companies for ongoing work on their plants. They buy supplies. They pay taxes that support the community. They purchase cardboard goods for shipping boxes. They produce paper goods. They hire accountants.

                            This is not a case, as claimed by your beach bunny friend that money is leaving the U.S. Look at other industries...they pay NO taxes...kThe slaughter industry...equine..beef...chicken...pork pay for goods and pay for employees.

                            You are grasping at straws.

                            A local butcher of beef will hire maybe ONE employee. A local bakery will hire maybe 2-3 employees for a small business. Employment is employment.

                            50-250 employees I think is wonderful.

                            Dakalb Ill....population 39.000
                            Education
                            Less than 9th grade 5%
                            9th to 12th grade, no diploma 8%
                            High school graduate 21%
                            Some college, no degree 21%
                            Associate's degree 8%
                            Bachelor's degree 20%
                            Graduate degree 18%


                            http://www.simplyhired.com/a/local-j...y/l-Dekalb,+IL

                            The article was by Amy...

                            Did you READ IT....actually READ IT?

                            These increases have been theorized as being linked to the demographic characteristics of the workers, social disorganization in the communities, and increased unemployment rates. But these explanations have not been empirically tested, and no research has addressed the possibility of a link between the increased crime rates and the violent work that takes place in the meatpacking industry.

                            Back to the bottom of the barrel and grasping for straws.
                            The Elephant in the room

                            Comment


                            • Angela...ALL of us are still waiting for YOUR solution for 150,000 horses over 12 months..that the slaughter industry would remove from the chain.

                              Pro slaughter ARE looking for alternatives as slaughter is just one small piece of the puzzle.
                              The Elephant in the room

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                . ..however many in San Diego would challenge your comments about safe as would friends in Tucson and Phoenix. There is much violence due to conflicts arising from Mexican versus others issues.
                                There is very little violence here. We average about 8 murders a yr and most of those are husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, drunk at a party fights. I can walk my dogs at midnight and feel perfectly safe. The idea that violence is coming across the border is a myth. Phoenix and tuscon are 8/5 hrs away.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                  There is very little violence here. We average about 8 murders a yr and most of those are husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, drunk at a party fights. I can walk my dogs at midnight and feel perfectly safe. The idea that violence is coming across the border is a myth. Phoenix and tuscon are 8/5 hrs away.
                                  You're right!


                                  http://www.kvia.com/news/El-Paso-Ran...z/-/index.html

                                  Comment


                                  • I believe we're still waiting for even 'one' alternative from the raras. I feel sorry for them, so I'll mention one really special alternative which was offered by our buddy Carol of Oklahoma. Her 'alternative' to the slaughterhouses was to establish special herds of horses to be self-sustaining on the curtilage of each slaughterhouse!!!! These horses could then be used for slaughter and the rest of the horses in the U.S. would be saved and everyone could sleep well at night? I'm still pondering the insanity of such a thought process. I have to wonder if her recent withdrawal from the AHA means she has done an about face and become pro-slaughter?

                                    Comment


                                    • Every time an alternative is mentioned it is shot down by pro-slaughter people 50 ways to Sunday. Slaughter is a business - to say that it actually benefits horses?? Spittin' in the wind. It really does not. It provides an outlet for bad breeding. The horses that need to be put down - the old, the unfit and the crazy are generally not the ones that get slaughtered for food. Whether you want to admit it or not, drugs are an issue.
                                      I really don't want to have to deal with a passport. I don't want more government regulation in regards to what I do and do not do with and for my horses. That would open up a whole other can of worms.
                                      You can "IF" the whole thing to death as well - IF it were humane - IF transport were better/shorter.
                                      All other food animals are now taking a longer ride as well. So what's really going to change???

                                      Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                      Angela...ALL of us are still waiting for YOUR solution for 150,000 horses over 12 months..that the slaughter industry would remove from the chain.

                                      Pro slaughter ARE looking for alternatives as slaughter is just one small piece of the puzzle.
                                      The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                                      H. Cate

                                      Comment


                                      • Angela, Let's just admit the obvious: If the slaughterhouses would just take a piece of your hearthorse during processing and make it into a bracelet bead or a necklace charm, you would be happy and actually support slaughter. Most raras believe in anthropomorphism and just want something to remember their 'friend' with.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
                                          Angela, Let's just admit the obvious: If the slaughterhouses would just take a piece of your hearthorse during processing and make it into a bracelet bead or a necklace charm, you would be happy and actually support slaughter. Most raras believe in anthropomorphism and just want something to remember their 'friend' with.
                                          You guys need to come up with something better than the namecalling and sarcasm.


                                          JGHIRETIRE- your post is 100% correct.
                                          All these pro slaughter posts are just lies/misleading.

                                          1) Myth- What else will we do with old, crippled horses?-
                                          Fact- The horses being slaughtered are young and healthy. KB are not buying emaciated horses in danger of starving.
                                          2) Myth- Horses will be abandoned-
                                          Fact-KB's have dumped/abandoned over 5000 horses rejected from crossing the border last yr in the desert outside of the POE to MX.

                                          3) myth- Horses will be left to starve like the big starvation cases we've seen.
                                          Fact- Slaughter doesn't reduce neglect/abuse- The largest horse neglect case in TX was just outside Dallas when Dallas Crowne was open. They were owned by a VET, who surely had access to slaughter or euth. In addition, when cavel shut down for 2 yrs, horse abuse cases dropped in the surrounding area.

                                          4) Myth- We need to be able to get one last use from horses.
                                          Fact- You can get one last use if you shoot and eat them yourself, donate to a vet school, hunt or big cat sanctuary, make them in to a carbon piece of jewelry, stuff and mount them in your living rm as a piece of furniture, have the body rendered, or compost them.

                                          5) Myth- It's bad for the environment if you don't send to slaughter.
                                          Fact- You can compost, cremate, make into jewelry, donate to hunt, big cat sanctuary, or vet school. Plus SH normally have a huge amount of EPA violations/environmental impact.

                                          6)Myth- People can't afford vet euth-
                                          Fact- There are euth clinics. Or a bullet is cheap, and if they are that hard up, they can shoot and eat him themselves since they probably can't afford meat purchases for the month.

                                          7) Myth- Dead is dead.
                                          Fact- True. But it's how they get to where they are killed, and how they are killed that's the issue.

                                          8) Myth- Things are different now. We'll be better.
                                          Fact- If they wanted to improve, they would have done it before the 3 SH in US shut down. They had more motivating them then. And they would have everyone with humane violations/EPA fines/court fines pay them as a show of good faith. And you would have 24 hr video from the SH streamed to the internet so people could see how humane the process is, not enacting Ag Gag laws to prevent anyone from seeing the process. They would have some plans for enforcing transport violations/humane handling violations.

                                          9) Myth- We give cattle the same drugs as horses. There's no difference.
                                          Fact- Unless cattle are being given Bute because they strained something while playing on the mountains of manure, while they cavort around happily in feedlots, I doubt they are being given the same drugs as horses. And if they are getting Bute it's being done illegally.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X