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Unique perspective on the horsemeat scandal...

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  • #21
    No, that is 30,000 to 60,000 head.

    There is one about 9 miles from us and if you drive thru there in the mornings, when the mill is going full steam, it smells like someone baking bread.

    I agree, feedlots smell, especially when wet.
    That is why there are so many around here, where it is dry, so dry they water the pens and alleys regularly to keep dust down.
    At one person per square mile, not many to offend with the smell.

    I expect I care more trying to walk into the post office behind someone that uses too much perfume, than cattle care if it smells where they live.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by fourmares View Post
      I disagree with 4-H for the same reason I disagree with eating horses... an animal being raised to be food should be treated as such. Raising an animal as a pet and then slaughtering it seems like lieing to the animal and seems wrong.
      Are you serious? Like, you have actually thought about your stance on that issue and that is the position you are comfortable with?

      Let me tap into my non-existant Native American blood for a second here...

      ...you want an animal, who is giving its life to provide live for us (the general human race) to be MISERABLE in it's existence, because it's just going to die anyway?!

      WHAT?!?!

      The beef cattle my neighbor raises live on pasture all summer, and get scraps every afternoon. They sprint up to the fence line when they see the truck coming, give kisses, and love being scratched. They live in cow heaven all summer, and are quickly and painlessly dispatched at the end of it.

      That's wrong?! You want your meat to have lived a miserable existence?

      Excuse the excess punctuation, but I just do not understand your position and thought process. At. All.

      Comment


      • #23
        When exactly did I say that you should treat animals that are going to be food badly? Or make them miserable? Or be cruel to them??? I didn't say that. I said they should be treated like they are going to be eaten. As someone else said happy cows taste better... I object to treating them like pets and acting like they are your best friend and buddy and teaching them to trust people in general and then sending them off in the killer's nasty old truck to the slaughter house where they will meet people that are not nice, or trustworthy, or kind to them.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by fourmares View Post
          I disagree with 4-H for the same reason I disagree with eating horses... an animal being raised to be food should be treated as such. Raising an animal as a pet and then slaughtering it seems like lieing to the animal and seems wrong.


          4-H does not force kids to treat their project animals as pets. The point of 4-H is to teach care and management of animals on a small scale (1 or a few animals... not hundreds) as well as keeping track of financials, showmanship, etc. Getting an animal ready for showmanship requires the animal to be a little more trained (tame? pet-like?) than a typical farm animal.

          Sure, some kids are going to name their project animals and treat them as pets. They are, afterall, kids. But I really don't understand what the problem with this is. The number of people we have in our society who have NO connection to our food chain is huge - and growing - I think the more people we have with that connection (whether they be in a goat project or a gardening project) the better!

          Comment


          • #25
            How is that a unique perspective ? It reflects the view of most of the hoi polloi posting on my news station Facebook page.

            Comment


            • #26
              US and State governments' fault, they classify a horse as a pet... so like dogs and cats, which we do not eat in this country but are eaten elsewhere; a horse is not a food source.... at least here

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by fourmares View Post
                When exactly did I say that you should treat animals that are going to be food badly? Or make them miserable? Or be cruel to them??? I didn't say that. I said they should be treated like they are going to be eaten. As someone else said happy cows taste better... I object to treating them like pets and acting like they are your best friend and buddy and teaching them to trust people in general and then sending them off in the killer's nasty old truck to the slaughter house where they will meet people that are not nice, or trustworthy, or kind to them.
                So again: because they are "just going to be eaten anyway," an animal should not have the opportunity to experience the love and compassion that comes along with being a "pet," as you say?

                A coworker has two young sons, I want to say 4 and 6, and they raised two pigs last summer. In the fall, they were sent off, and the boys did not go to watch but they were told exactly what was happening. (I'm sure in delicate language, but there was no "they're going to another farm.") Every time they are served ham/bacon/etc, they go "Mmmm, Kiera tastes good. Thanks Kiera!!"

                They thank the pigs. It's a BAD thing to be teaching our youth, most so uninvolved in the "real world" around them, to be kind and compassionate and THANKFUL for any role that an animal may serve in their lives?? Whether it be the family cat for being a lazy pillow hog or the pig from Summer 2012 for providing them with food?

                Again, we just have VERY different thought processes, clearly. I, for one, don't ever see there being a reason for NOT sharing kindness/compassion/love with any being, no matter their ultimate purpose.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by clanter View Post
                  US and State governments' fault, they classify a horse as a pet... so like dogs and cats, which we do not eat in this country but are eaten elsewhere; a horse is not a food source.... at least here

                  thankfully horses are still classified as lifestock.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    why haven't are all the degreed, trained professionals & governement agencies taken a look at Harris? I would guess because not everything is as perfect as Bluey's world.

                    If Harris has been in business for a while, then clearly, poorly managed feed lots CAN stay in business and make money.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I'm trying to decide which is funnier, the original article or the CoTH replies. In the meantime, I'll try to find my can of screen cleaner.
                      The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
                      Winston Churchill

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Frank, I agree, it's a toss up. I think the article wins only because it manages to be funny *and* logical at the same time.

                        I think I'll go over to my neighbor's field later today, and give the grazing cattle some really mean glares. I might even lob a few insults in their direction.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                          why haven't are all the degreed, trained professionals & governement agencies taken a look at Harris? I would guess because not everything is as perfect as Bluey's world.

                          If Harris has been in business for a while, then clearly, poorly managed feed lots CAN stay in business and make money.
                          Maybe I can take a stab at answering this.

                          You know, when people drive down a road and see some horses napping and others over them with fly masks and call animal control about the blind and dead horses in the pasture?
                          That could be one explanation in why some see that feedlot as "bad".
                          Anyone that doesn't know about the regulations for feedlots may drive by, smell that to humans terrible smell, maybe see mud after a rain and assume that is a terrible place.

                          In reality, maybe they are inspected and all is fine, they are already following standard good business feedlot practices, just like the owner of the horses laying down and with fly masks, that really are fine?
                          Maybe we really can't tell, other than in clear abuse or starvation cases, what is adequate management and what is anthropomorphism misleading our thinking.

                          Not that I know, but seems that a huge feedlot in such a public place would not be exactly the kind you expect their managers to get by doing anything illegal.

                          Why do I think this may be a case of not really knowing any better?
                          Because anyone that thinks grass fed is "better" and more ecologically sound way to produce beef is already not knowledgeable, as that is old news by now, clearly not so, enough studies have that old badly run study of 2006 often quoted to support that fallacy long debunked.

                          Grass or grain fed are different management procedures, only difference being, those same cattle are not slaughtered off grass directly, but fed for a few more weeks of their lives a grain based ration, generally 50/50 grain and roughage.
                          What that gives us is 1/3 more meat per the same number of animals, think about that, at a cost that is considerably less than that, a gain all around for society, getting more from less.
                          If we went back to slaughtering all those cattle off grass, there would not be enough pastures or cattle today to produce what we do today by 1/3.

                          Things in life are not always what they seem, there generally is more to any story.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Appsolute View Post
                            My cousins always did 4H animals – cows, turkeys, pigs. Those animals were raised with love and care like a pet. The cows were handled often, taught how to lead and stand for shows, groomed and fluffed – and cared for.


                            Any way, they were well fed, handled, and loved – and then auctioned off to meat buyers at the county fair.

                            Edited to add - and my family would always buy some of that 4H meat. Its nice to know the animal you are eating had a good life up till the dinner plate.
                            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            I wish more kids were in 4H and learned good animal husbandry, so there would be less abuses out there by clueless, some times well meaning people, wanting to own some animal and not knowing what they are doing.

                            As anyone that cares for animals can tell you, humans, by having animals, learn much more than just how to properly care for them, also learning about themselves and so much more and 4H is one part of that learning process.
                            Originally posted by oldpony66 View Post


                            4-H does not force kids to treat their project animals as pets. The point of 4-H is to teach care and management of animals on a small scale (1 or a few animals... not hundreds) as well as keeping track of financials, showmanship, etc. Getting an animal ready for showmanship requires the animal to be a little more trained (tame? pet-like?) than a typical farm animal.
                            Part of the 4H process should include following the animal they raised through the slaughter process. If they are learning animal husbandry, why not teach them everything? It seems like a very important step in the raising of a meat animal is being left out.
                            Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              As I remember they used to do that. You could see what happened and how it was done. These days so much of the process is behind closed doors. They felt that it was traumatic to see actual slaughter. If it is done correctly it isn't that hard to watch.

                              Originally posted by jenm View Post
                              Part of the 4H process should include following the animal they raised through the slaughter process. If they are learning animal husbandry, why not teach them everything? It seems like a very important step in the raising of a meat animal is being left out.
                              The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                              H. Cate

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by jenm View Post
                                Part of the 4H process should include following the animal they raised through the slaughter process. If they are learning animal husbandry, why not teach them everything? It seems like a very important step in the raising of a meat animal is being left out.
                                I don't understand your question?

                                4H animal husbandry projects do teach it all, down to what percentage was which kind of product after slaughter and how it compared against the standard, being graded, etc.

                                That all goes in their project books to be later evaluated.

                                Many of those animals are kept by the family as replacement heifers, sheep, goats and pigs also, or other such, not all projects are geared for eventual slaughter.

                                A neighbor's kid project two years ago was a huge, sweet rabbit, that then was kept as his pet at home.

                                There are all kinds of such projects in 4H, because it is not about the project itself only, but about what the kid learns by managing all what goes into any one project, be it a specific animal or other.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                  Maybe I can take a stab at answering this.

                                  You know, when people drive down a road and see some horses napping and others over them with fly masks and call animal control about the blind and dead horses in the pasture?
                                  That could be one explanation in why some see that feedlot as "bad".
                                  Anyone that doesn't know about the regulations for feedlots may drive by, smell that to humans terrible smell, maybe see mud after a rain and assume that is a terrible place.

                                  In reality, maybe they are inspected and all is fine, they are already following standard good business feedlot practices, just like the owner of the horses laying down and with fly masks, that really are fine?
                                  Maybe we really can't tell, other than in clear abuse or starvation cases, what is adequate management and what is anthropomorphism misleading our thinking.

                                  Not that I know, but seems that a huge feedlot in such a public place would not be exactly the kind you expect their managers to get by doing anything illegal.

                                  Why do I think this may be a case of not really knowing any better?
                                  Because anyone that thinks grass fed is "better" and more ecologically sound way to produce beef is already not knowledgeable, as that is old news by now, clearly not so, enough studies have that old badly run study of 2006 often quoted to support that fallacy long debunked.

                                  Grass or grain fed are different management procedures, only difference being, those same cattle are not slaughtered off grass directly, but fed for a few more weeks of their lives a grain based ration, generally 50/50 grain and roughage.
                                  What that gives us is 1/3 more meat per the same number of animals, think about that, at a cost that is considerably less than that, a gain all around for society, getting more from less.
                                  If we went back to slaughtering all those cattle off grass, there would not be enough pastures or cattle today to produce what we do today by 1/3.

                                  Things in life are not always what they seem, there generally is more to any story.
                                  Thanks for your response.

                                  However, I et the impression that Appsolute knows what she is talking about and is not exaggerating since she lives nearby this poorly run in her vision, Harris Ranch. Seems to make no difference to the owners that their bad practice is visible to many.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Because of the article I had to change my sigy

                                    See below \/ \/ \/
                                    Draumr Hesta Farm
                                    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                                    Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

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