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Surrey Horses Bahamas

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  • Original Poster

    I am wondering what you think my agenda is?


    • #22
      Originally posted by SCMD1954 View Post
      so you are saying that putting a carriage horse out to pasture would be worse for them? i am having a hard time believing that.

      Where are these pastures they would be going to? Are these pastures plentiful enough for all of the carriage horses that would no longer be working?

      Who would own them?

      Are they going to be confiscated from the owners, or is the owner expected to pay for their pasture life? What if they can't afford that?
      What is going to be done about drivers not able to continue to feed these animals? Is a fund in place, or is it just expected that someone, somewhere will "pony" up?

      What if the owner would prefer to eat them if they are not working and producing an income? Okay with that?

      In addition:
      Do you have photos of multiple animals with "feet rotting off"?
      How do horses gag on bits?


      • Original Poster

        sounds like you are the person who doesn't know anything about horses. i own and have run horse barns in the states for years. where i come from we have what is called a PASTURE to clarify it is land where someone puts their livestock where they may graze(eat grass) and run about, as opposed to spending their lives pulling a carriage and tethered (tied to) a tree to.not rocket science i hope this helps to clear things up for you.


        • Original Poster

          I am wondering what you think my agenda is?


          • #25
            I always think when dealing with the customs of a different country one has to take into account that standards of care are going to differ from what we are used to. The carriage horses might not meet "our" standard of care, but they may well be receiving good to very good care under their own country's standards.

            As for being out to pasture, perhaps being tethered to a tree fits that country's idea of out to pasture. On an enclosed island, there simply may be little or no "pasture" for the horses available. Also, on an enclosed island where the basic standard of living is probably very different from ours in the USA, any animal "without a job" is simply not going to be kept around.

            So--are these horses with a job better off than the ones without a job? Probably so.

            BTW, the rope on the bridle seemed to be reins from looking at the pictures. Not ideal, certainly. Inhumane, not at all.


            • #26
              Originally posted by SCMD1954 View Post
              sounds like you are the person who doesn't know anything about horses. i own and have run horse barns in the states for years. where i come from we have what is called a PASTURE to clarify it is land where someone puts their livestock where they may graze(eat grass) and run about, as opposed to spending their lives pulling a carriage and tethered (tied to) a tree to.not rocket science i hope this helps to clear things up for you.
              Wow, great attitude for someone looking for help with their cause!

              I guess my 30+ yrs of horse ownership (5 at the moment) don't mean squat, lol.

              Let me clarify for those that seem a bit slow on the uptake:

              Where, on the islands, are these pastures that are large and plentiful enough to maintain that quantity of horses?

              Who is going to pay for the land, extra feed as needed, etc. for these horses?

              Or are you expecting to send them to the mainland? If so, who is going to pay for that expense?

              And again, for a silly little non-experienced person like me, exactly how does a horse gag on a bit?


              • #27
                We have pastures here too but that will not take care of a horse for long. Their feed needs to be supplemented. We have the term "put out to pasture" which means retired. Now, if the horse is not working, how many of these horses would actually be able to "live" in a pasture? I feel that if they are working and earning their keep, they are able to get better care. At least that is the case in the USA.

                Do you know how many horses are being turned lose on roads because the owners can not afford to feed them? Most of these are on pastures but the pastures cannot support horses completely. There is not enough room.

                I don't think most people realize how many horses in "pastures" actually starve to death or get struck by lightning because they have no shelter. I don't think people realize how many acres per horse it also takes.


                • Original Poster

                  What I would like to see is a better environment for the horses - living and working - you all seem to be concerned with what might happen to the horses rather than what is happening now - you don't have to be a specialist in horses to know that abuse and cruelty is going on. when the humane society shuts down a puppy mill do they need to know that all the puppies will be placed in a wonderful home? or do they just stop what they know is wrong and hope that they will come up with the best resolution they can? throwing up obstacles can be done all day long till nothing can be done about anything.we are trying to right a wrong here and stop the day to day suffering of these horses.


                  • #29
                    Perhaps it is lost on this OP and the dozens of other FARTS(Fanatical Animal Rights Terrorists) that just because you do not find something to be pleasant or your ideal does not land it squarely into the context of "abusive"

                    If the owners do not have currently have these mythical "pastures" where the horses might run about and graze then banning their means of income certainly is not going to suddenly produce them. Instead its is the animals that will suffer ..if you think they are lacking in care now wait till their owner has to decide between feeding his children and feeding the horse.

                    Then again perhaps not among the reasonable but for most of those with this sort of mindset it is not about the animals welfare it is about removing what is offensive from their sight.

                    The OP provides that beautifully in their post
                    stop what they know is wrong and hope that they will come up with the best resolution
                    They provide no proof that what is going on is "wrong" and what happens to the horses and people after is simply an after thought. Frankly should dozens of those surrey horses end up in piles in some back lot they will just again point to the inhumanity of the owners/people rather then reflect upon what they have caused.
                    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


                    • Original Poster

                      There is pasture - how do you think the barb horses in Abaco live?


                      • Original Poster

                        There are also people here in the Bahamas who are willing to take any of the horses that need to be. In no way shape of form is this fanatic behavior. This is about the welfare of the horses and you can all be distrusting of the information but the attitude here is that 'if the horse doesn't work for a week then I don't feed him for a week' (surrey owner).


                        • #32
                          Well there you have it, the OP has observed a pasture somewhere. The horses can simply be put in that pasture and live happily ever after. Problem solved. What other problems can we solve for the world on COTH today?
                          \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns


                          • Original Poster

                            BTW if you all want to come here and see for yourselves the inspections, the places where these horses go at night and the work environment then feel free.


                            • Original Poster

                              clearly you don't give a shit


                              • #35
                                I'm guessing these people that are willing to take the horses have no idea how much it costs to keep a horse. Given the level of ignorance on the FB page, they seem to think it's easy to keep a horse looking fat and shiny. It's not. It takes a lot of time and money.

                                I'm not saying it's ok to ignore a horse that needs vet care or is simply not being given adequate feed. But we also don't know, from here at our keyboards, that the owners of these horses aren't doing the best they can. And I won't support the seizure of anyone's horses without the kind of due process for which gangs of bullies on FB are not an adequate substitute.
                                \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns


                                • #36
                                  So from that stand point OP why are you not championing to raise husbandry standards , provide education , help provide / raise financial assistance to purchase better fitting tack etc ? There are plenty of programs that work in areas that the culture and financial situation of the providence is vastly different then ours. They manage to find ways to help vs ban ?

                                  Are you familiar with The Brooke and the group that operates through this FB page https://www.facebook.com/princefluff...ref=ts&sk=wall

                                  There are truly photos of shocking issues and yet they put their time and effort into education and care for the animals vs abolition. They get my support your efforts ..not so much
                                  "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


                                  • Original Poster

                                    No-one is trying to seize the horses - we are simply trying to make a better environment for them - the people that reply to the FB posts are locals who are ashamed of what they see in the surrey horses and also know how they are treated and how they are housed. This is not a new thing - this has been going on for decades - and it doesn't seem to matter if a horse dies cos they just get another one - if they can't afford to feed their horses, how can they afford to buy another - btw they don't come from the race tracks many come from the Amish is Philidelphia


                                    • #38
                                      If your not seizing horses then why did you make this statement ?

                                      There are also people here in the Bahamas who are willing to take any of the horses that need to be.
                                      "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


                                      • Original Poster

                                        It is clear that you are all making the assumption that I would like to see this whole thing banned - that is not the case - I have not said anything about banning the surrey horses - We have already tried to help the owners and drivers - over the past 5 years we have managed to get hay and food in for the horses duty free - we have had an equine vet and dentist and also a farrier to train them on how to shoe their horses.

                                        We have even tried to have meetings with the drivers to get their points of view about what improvements they think we can make - only one person turned up out of 30.

                                        Starving the animals and making them work is not an excuse because the owners are poor - If they can't manage to maintain their horses then they should get another job - Just because you are poor does not mean you can inhumanely treat animals - there are no moral rules separating poor people from rich people.

                                        Just like there is no excuse to go and rob someone because they are poor


                                        • Original Poster

                                          because it may come to the point where the horses may need somewhere else to go. We have found horses in the middle of the road because they can't work anymore - they are dumped

                                          The horse that died in November passed the inspection and was only supposed to work 1 day a week due to a heart condition - the evening before she died the driver was racing her against another horse and was aware of the horses condition.