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How bad is it not to train your horses?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by katarine View Post
    Consider that the way in which you made your general topic, pointedly about one person- that's why. And I don't even know that person. By mentioning that your horses 'worked for a living' it would seem you feel compelled to justify feeding and caring for them. Why justify it? To whom? I'm not about to justify mine to you, or to anyone.
    All that tempest in a teakettle because you didn't like that I quoted someone?
    It must be the full moon.

    Comment


    • #62
      I made a concerted effort to explain myself, and you are dismissive. Typical Bluey.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Sobriska View Post
        I don't see much wrong with having horses that are well cared for, but are not well broke to ride.
        I have a coming 4 year old that was orphaned at 3 weeks. She has been handled daily, and is a model citizen.

        At 2 she was taught to lunge with tack, and was sat on, bareback, just hanging out. A no big deal, this is part of life. Through that year, she was taught to walk around, bareback, in halter and leads, and to trot a few steps. Mainly just reinforcing the go, steer, and most importantly whoa.

        She was to go to a local trainer early in her 3 year old year, but suffered a leg injury that needed stitches. She healed quickly, but her reserved space had been filled. Discussed another date, and then I broke my leg. And during that time, she injured her eye, and had to have it removed.

        So....she's going to be 4 in April, and she is basically unbroke. She has impeccable ground manners. Anything can be done with her. And because of her trusting personality, and good basics, I have no doubt saddle training would be easy.

        However, she is not marketable should I be suddenly hit by a bus, LOL! I am fully aware that a 4 year old, one eyed mare is not saleable, despite her great personality. SO... I have made provisions for her and the boys, should I die tomorrow. They all have designated caretakers and funds to provide for them for some time.

        No, I am NOT wealthy! I have made it a point to forgo things I want to have and want to do in order to provide for my animals.
        at four she is still a baby, and with one good eye she can still have a job.


        It is not bad to have a herd of pets.

        If said pets have the basic schooling to be something more if the need arises.
        Originally posted by BigMama1
        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
        GNU Terry Prachett

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
          All that tempest in a teakettle because you didn't like that I quoted someone?
          It must be the full moon.
          Sorry, Bluey, but I've got to agree with those who were set back on there heels by it.

          It did come across as judgey, intrusive and rude. Perhaps it didn't read the way you intended, important in person inflection missing, or even a language thing. But I'm another who inhaled deeply when I read it and wondered if you'd really just written that.
          "Aye God, Woodrow..."

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Long Spot View Post
            Sorry, Bluey, but I've got to agree with those who were set back on there heels by it.

            It did come across as judgey, intrusive and rude. Perhaps it didn't read the way you intended, important in person inflection missing, or even a language thing. But I'm another who inhaled deeply when I read it and wondered if you'd really just written that.
            Thank you, at least you were not all judgeypant, passive-aggressive and rude telling me off yourself, while expressing your opinion.

            Guess that it sounds wrong to several, so it must be I who is not getting this.

            I still don't see why what I said would offend anyone, thought it was just one more observation, like any other.
            Seems that it hit a sore spot with many, that is true.

            Horses are so much for so many.
            Here many times we have posters questioning what they can do with a horse the can't carry any more, or doesn't work for them and they need to move on so they can enjoy horses.
            Others talk about their personal struggles to have horses or even to be around horses, even if not their own.

            Horses are and have always been something not just anyone could have.
            They take resources to own and keep, financial and emotional resources.
            To examine that part of our owning horses, to me, is part of that whole our horses are for us.
            We should be glad we are the privileged ones that get to have and be around horses, any one way we can manage that.
            I have been very well aware of that all my life, even more so now, when keeping horses is becoming harder for several reasons.

            Why that is not a PC opinion, well, I honestly still don't get it, but seems that is something most don't agree with.
            Maybe some day I will understand why, but I sure don't now.

            Comment


            • #66
              Bluey I know lots and lots of ranchers that don't use horses on their cows any more; you may think your horses are earning their keep but IMO they aren't necessary. In this day and age of cows producing methane and taking up resources according to some environmental folks, I would think you'd be a little more careful about appointing YOURSELF the one that is going to dictate which critter is taking up the resources that another should have. Someone else can flip that onto you.

              You often bring up your past and experiences; obviously you learned a lot about getting along in American society. I'd challenge you to take it just a step further on this one. Sometimes I "get" where you're coming from considering your experiences but sometimes that isn't enough to justify blaming the audience when they don't like what they hear from you.

              Your point was/is a valid discussion topic-attaching it directly to Gainer's post and her horses was a cloddish maneuver.

              Blaming it on the audience and the full moon is insulting.
              “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by cowboymom View Post
                Bluey I know lots and lots of ranchers that don't use horses on their cows any more; you may think your horses are earning their keep but IMO they aren't necessary. In this day and age of cows producing methane and taking up resources according to some environmental folks, I would think you'd be a little more careful about appointing YOURSELF the one that is going to dictate which critter is taking up the resources that another should have. Someone else can flip that onto you.

                You often bring up your past and experiences; obviously you learned a lot about getting along in American society. I'd challenge you to take it just a step further on this one. Sometimes I "get" where you're coming from considering your experiences but sometimes that isn't enough to justify blaming the audience when they don't like what they hear from you.

                Your point was/is a valid discussion topic-attaching it directly to Gainer's post and her horses was a cloddish maneuver.

                Blaming it on the audience and the full moon is insulting.
                There you go again, complaining about how I express myself and you picking on me is ok?
                Now you also know how I should use my horses and that they are not necessary for what I do?

                The reason I mentioned that our horses are working horses is because someone else had brought up that today horses are not any more but for pleasure, that they don't work any more.
                I didn't mean, as some then assumed, that being working horses was giving them any other special meaning than that, was not putting other horse uses down, please.

                Methane and global warming is what you now bring up?
                Ok, I will respond to that, also a myth.
                Most of global warming gasses come from transportation, that one little study in 2006 was wrong and has been already explained many times why.
                Too bad it fit some agendas so well, it won't die.

                Hey, if you want to curb global warming gasses, vegan is sure not the way to go, think of all the gas all those beans produce!

                As for making jokes being insulting, well, I can't really help what level of humor others may understand, that is true.

                I get it, there is something wrong with the way my thoughts came across, according to some here and, well, I have already acknowledged that, would be foolish not to, although still don't see why that was so.

                All I can do is try to be a bit more careful when answering.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by 5 View Post
                  It is a horse by horse thing.

                  Some horses can go years and not forget a thing they learned, other horses have the memory of a goldfish.
                  Don't mean to hijack, and I know it is just a metaphor, but goldfish have much longer memories than that: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-02-1...busted/1046710

                  Oh and yes, horses need to be trained or, unless their owners are independently wealthy and provide for their entire lifespan in their will, they could fall on very hard times.
                  http://www.camstock.net/

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by katarine View Post
                    Says who?
                    That thinking of animals = humans is what has made the whole mess with ARA, HSUS, PETA not just with livestock but pet type animals as well. You can see the fallout of that all around us. My animals are family and I meet their needs before my own, but they are not human.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                      There you go again, complaining about how I express myself and you picking on me is ok?
                      Now you also know how I should use my horses and that they are not necessary for what I do?

                      The reason I mentioned that our horses are working horses is because someone else had brought up that today horses are not any more but for pleasure, that they don't work any more.
                      I didn't mean, as some then assumed, that being working horses was giving them any other special meaning than that, was not putting other horse uses down, please.

                      Methane and global warming is what you now bring up?
                      Ok, I will respond to that, also a myth.
                      Most of global warming gasses come from transportation, that one little study in 2006 was wrong and has been already explained many times why.
                      Too bad it fit some agendas so well, it won't die.

                      Hey, if you want to curb global warming gasses, vegan is sure not the way to go, think of all the gas all those beans produce!

                      As for making jokes being insulting, well, I can't really help what level of humor others may understand, that is true.

                      I get it, there is something wrong with the way my thoughts came across, according to some here and, well, I have already acknowledged that, would be foolish not to, although still don't see why that was so.

                      All I can do is try to be a bit more careful when answering.

                      Well, at least you give the emoticon board a reason for existence.

                      I'm not picking on you, I'm trying to TALK to you for heaven's sake but you don't seem to work both ways in a conversation. You think you're above reproach and you apparently have the time in the day to drive that perception forward 24/7. Have you ever had an interactive conversation???? You're right Bluey, keep talking, don't stop and carry on. You're perfect, your audience is flawed.

                      Knock yourself out, I think you're talking to yourself more than you're talking to anybody else. I think you learned English just enough to tell other people what you think, not enough to hear what THEY think.

                      Gainer: Thank you for taking good care of your horses and I can imagine the peace, happiness and fulfillment they bring you at least twice a day. If you ever need any resources, let me know, I'll share!
                      “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

                      Comment


                      • #71


                        is it full moon again?!

                        can we maybe possibly get back to the normal, regularly scheduled topic?!
                        Originally posted by BigMama1
                        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                        GNU Terry Prachett

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          For the first two pages of this thread, the OP got some very rational, informational responses. Then, the thread veered off-topic. If it doesn't return to center, it will be closed.

                          If anyone needs to review the original topic of conversation, please see the first page.

                          Mod 3

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #73
                            Originally posted by Moderator 3 View Post
                            For the first two pages of this thread, the OP got some very rational, informational responses. Then, the thread veered off-topic. If it doesn't return to center, it will be closed.

                            If anyone needs to review the original topic of conversation, please see the first page.

                            Mod 3
                            In my original posting I was trying to address temporary lack of day-to-day training of already well handled and educated horses.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by HHH View Post
                              In my original posting I was trying to address temporary lack of day-to-day training of already well handled and educated horses.
                              If a horse is well trained already, it should be fine turned out for as long as you want, as long as the horse in question is happy turned out and not ridden.

                              I have had a few that just didn't thrive in that situation, were truly unhappy for long time and didn't seem to want to change, so I moved them to where they were ridden more.

                              The rest, happy as larks as pasture ornaments, for as long as you want and yes, they will quickly remember being good, well trained horses once you again start riding them, even years down the road.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Making sure your horses are trained is the best way to give them a future. if you choose not to ride, that is up to you, but it would be sensible to have your horses ridden periodically to keep their training up.

                                I have a new pony as of yesterday. He has no current vaccines, his feet are overdue, he is scared, and between 6-10 years old, all because no one bothered to train him. Had I not taken him in, he was auction bound.
                                “Pray, hope, and don't worry.”

                                St. Padre Pio

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by HHH View Post
                                  In my original posting I was trying to address temporary lack of day-to-day training of already well handled and educated horses.
                                  Some horses are "slow changers." You can train them, work them up, ride for a while, and then turn them out for sometimes very long periods and you will have little "refresher" work that needs to be done to get them back in work.

                                  Others are "fast changers" and require regular, frequent work or you'll have a BIG "refresher training" program after any sort of layoff.

                                  Most, however, are somewhere in the middle.

                                  Two of the saddest sights are Earth are a man or a horse without a job. Both tend to deteriorate and often decline into dangerous behaviors. Horse owners have a duty to keep their horse "engaged" in some sort of "work" to keep them from that decline. As for men, that's a tougher problem.

                                  This duty, however, is moral and ethical and belongs to the owner of the horse. Saddles, harness, etc. are not necessary. Time and dedication are.

                                  G.
                                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    I don't think day to day training is always necessary. Plenty of horses retire because of an injury at a very young age and may live 20+ more years without any day to day training. Some horses learn boundaries and then rarely if ever press those boundaries and other need daily reminders that certain behavior is not acceptable.

                                    Of course the degree of training affects marketability but if you have a built in cushion through family or friends if you life took a dramatic change for the worse over night then marketability doesn't affect you.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      I would worry about the lack of exercise. Practically no one has a paddock big enough to allow horses to self-exercise, and like all creatures, they are lazy by nature- if there is no incentive to move, they don't. And unfortunately lack of exercise causes all kinds of health problems. If you don't want to go out there and exercise them yourself, you can try to set up your situation so they move more- put the water way over there, and the hay over here, and build lots of pointless fences so they have to walk long distances to get from one to the other.
                                      People think it's "horsey heaven", but most likely many of the horses stuck in such paddocks are bored beyond belief, and just don't know how to improve their situation. I especially worry about all the elderly horses left in paddocks- "motion is lotion" and many of these horses probably suffer from a lot of very avoidable joint pain because they aren't forced to move around a lot regularly, thus the muscles get weak and the joints deteriorate. I once half-leased an elderly horse who would go completely lame if not ridden daily- she thrived on long, slow trail rides, and would sort of "seize up" if not made to move.

                                      Comment

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