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Independent Contractor my A$$

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  • #61
    MVP, read the article. "McCartney was awarded: $14,390 for past medical expenses; $9,620 in lost wages and $250,000 in noneconomic losses. The noneconomic losses award is not impacted by the state cap on noneconomic damages in non-medical malpractice lawsuits."

    The damages were not capped per the article; this is not a malpractice or product liability case.

    It's not unusual for a plaintiff to sue for multi-millions and settle for significantly less. Without knowing all the facts, it is hard to gauge how serious the injury or the jury's rationale for the non-medical damages. It's high, so my guess is that the jury was sending a message.

    I'm with QH4me -- this isn't a very high dollar case on actual damages. It suggests to me that it would be settled rather than adjudicated. I know that's what I would have done if I were the BO.
    Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule


    • #62
      some folks here clearly have a very incorrect view of the law. I highly encourage ANY small business to find a GOOD and KNOWLEDGEABLE person to help you so that you are not unknowingly breaking the law and putting your bushiness at risk .

      While the laws can be complex it isn't that hard to make sure you are legal.

      And also FWIW, in *general* for non high risk positions, if you add apprx 12 - 15% to an employees hourly wage that should cover your portion of the cost of hiring them. Unless of course you are hiring roofers and that number would go up to 100% ....


      • #63
        I find this interesting-- as a consultant, my contract is VERY detailed on these points. It specifically states that I am expected to work for other entities, provide my own equipment (computer) and that the client has to provide me with access to their systems using that equipment, and that my working hours, location, etc are not defined by the entity with which I have the contract. I had to make it even clearer a few years ago.

        Obviously a 17 year old does not know any of this, but I find even in the big-dollar companies that folks still do not know the rules and try to play the "I'm paying you so you work by my rules" game.
        Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
        you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.


        • #64
          Originally posted by mbm View Post

          I think that the IRS and states are cracking down on incorrect categorization of folks - they are not against 1099 contractors per se.

          If someone is truly offering services to the public then they are an IC. It is pretty darn clear. It is not about the time you work for someone.

          We can use me as an example: I offer accounting & bookkeeping services to small businesses - you can find my info on Google, yelp, etc. I have my own URL, etc. It is very easy to classify me as an IC because of these facts.

          Now, if I were only providing services to one company, if I went to work 9-5 and had to do as they say, when they say to do it - while I am providing the same services I would be classified as an EMPLOYEE.

          Most folks who say it is unclear are trying to bend the line... in most cases it is very very clear.

          So, yes, if you get overwhelmed and you need an office worker - unless you hire someone who offers those services to the public (and those folks are out there) you will need to hire the person as an employee.

          As for cost - a REAL IC will charge far more than an employee - why? Because they need to cover the "employer taxes" that they have to pay... they also have to pay for their overhead. So a 1099 IC will charge usually about twice as much as an employee would.

          My suggestion would be to ask before you make an error that could have large ramifications.
          An attorney and accountant presented the evening we were advised to be careful of using "independent contractors" in a new business seminar. Then talked to my own attorney, and he agreed that it is tightening up. But then again, attorneys almost always tell you to be conservative.

          So I probably will plan for the worst if needed to take someone on. The suggestion to me was that this was a new wave, in an attempt to gather more taxes collected (paid for by the employer) up front, of course.
          But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson


          • #65
            Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
            I live in OR and hadn't realized things had changed. When I worked for a trainer ($5 an hour) I did not clean stalls. My job was to tack up and untack the in-training horses. My reward was a couple of lessons throughout the day on client horses that weren't scheduled to jump that day.
            Haha! You got the only legit/worthwhile horse job in this one-horse state. Maybe the mid-Willamette valley is just a horse desert for good trainers and opportunities.
            The armchair saddler
            Politically Pro-Cat


            • #66
              Originally posted by IronwoodFarm View Post
              MVP, read the article. "McCartney was awarded: $14,390 for past medical expenses; $9,620 in lost wages and $250,000 in noneconomic losses. The noneconomic losses award is not impacted by the state cap on noneconomic damages in non-medical malpractice lawsuits."

              The damages were not capped per the article; this is not a malpractice or product liability case.

              It's not unusual for a plaintiff to sue for multi-millions and settle for significantly less. Without knowing all the facts, it is hard to gauge how serious the injury or the jury's rationale for the non-medical damages. It's high, so my guess is that the jury was sending a message.

              I'm with QH4me -- this isn't a very high dollar case on actual damages. It suggests to me that it would be settled rather than adjudicated. I know that's what I would have done if I were the BO.
              Oops! Read too fast. Thanks for correcting my mistake. It would be interesting to know whether the jury was interested in punishing the defendant or sending a policy message to similar employers. Hmm.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat


              • #67
                Originally posted by airhorse View Post
                You all agree with the verdict right up to the point your board doubles or triples...

                This is exactly why I do everything myself. I don't know who can afford employees!



                • #68
                  employees cost about an additional 15% of the hourly rate which would include employer taxes and workers comp.

                  its not *that* expensive!

                  so a barn worker that makes $10/hr and works 20 hours a week would cost 800 without ER costs and 920 with.

                  that is 120 per month. that would NOT double anyone's board.....
                  Last edited by mbm; Feb. 23, 2013, 01:23 AM.


                  • #69
                    I feel that girl absolutely should have been treated as an employee, but it's partially based on my experience.

                    I worked for a book publisher for a year. I was hired on as a receptionist; I worked 40 hours a week in their office, on their computers/equipment. There was a daily schedule and I was expected to be present. I was also considered an independent contractor - it was the only option presented to me, I needed a job, so I agreed. I was offered no health insurance.

                    6 months later they made me a salaried employee and started taking takes out and offered health insurance - but I had to push and push for it. A month later, the company went bankrupt and I showed up to work one morning to be told it was closed.

                    Well, when I went to sign up for unemployment, technically I hadn't been an "employee" for the required 3 months to receive unemployment of 50% of a paycheck. I got $20 a week and had to request the IRS open an investigation into whether I SHOULD have been considered an employee all along. I had to write letters, prove my points as to why I was an employee, and basically gave them every bit of evidence I could come up with.

                    Thankfully, they found in my favor - but I lived on $20 a week (and I own a horse!!!) for two months. I had savings (thank goodness) and just this past week started a new job. But, I have serious issue with companies listing people who ARE employees as independent contractors. It had never occurred to me that it could cause such an issue with unemployment - if I'd realized that, I probably wouldn't have taken the job in the first place.
                    Dapplebay - home of original equestrian clothing and accessories.