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Are you financially stable enough to be a horse owner?

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  • This can be a very touchy subject for some people.

    I am 19 years old and live in San Diego. There's no way in hell I can afford a horse. The cost of living has skyrocketed here the past few years. I waitressed since I was 16 but now have set my sights on real estate. I have 3 (yes, 3) jobs! I work P/T afternoons in a real estate office, Sundays for a dressage barn (to work off my lessons) and Mornings I work for another office doing reception work. I'm in debt, live paycheck to paycheck, have no support from my parents and barely get by.

    I would enver even consider getting a horse right now, although god knows I deserve it. Instead, I work my ass off because I know eventually, when the time and $$ is right, I'll be able to buy the horse I want on my own terms.

    It's hard to see my best friend have 3 horses in her private stable with her mucho expensive tack and 3 million dollar house. It's even more heart wrenching because she doesn't ahve the slightest interest in her horses since she was 15.

    I make do. I think that people do the best they can in this world. I think insurance is a wonderful option for those who don't have the reserve for emergency surgeries, etc.

    Is there anyone out there who is like me? Horse-less and barley getting by in this world?

    <3

    ToXiC

    Comment


    • Financially stable enough? Oh my Lord- I can't even fathom emergency costs when horses are selling for prices like this...

      horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/654597.html

      horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/664563.html

      And to think I was worried about paying board! That's more money than I'll see in a lifetime....sigh

      "Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you jump, but how well you bounce."
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Full-time Lurker, Part-time Poster

      Comment


      • No,no Midge, it's mortgage, then horses, THEN food!

        ok, got that out of my sytem. I've been checking in on this topic for several days, now.
        And I just don't think the criteria should be whether or not you have the financial wherewithall to pay for an expensive surgical procedure to alleviate something that very well may not happen in your horse's lifetime. I fully support those who say that your ability to pay motnhly budgeted horse expenses (board, routine farrier and vet and a little extra that can be put aside for nonroutine such as a lameness exam, some extra meds, and so forth) is more meaningful.

        I got my first horse when I could see that, on paper, I could swing it. Of course, nothing works quite as cleanly in real life, but I never missed a board payment, never missed a farrier call, she never missed her vaccinations or worming. And she did just fine for 28 years. I of course lived on pasta and sauce, missed a lot of dental visits, and had furniture left over from my student years. Now, this was almost 30 years ago. Vet options to treat catastrophic events were much more limited, and much riskier. Colic surgery would never have been an option in my mind for the sake of the horse, much less my finances.

        Of course, every time I got a little ahead financially, I celebrated by somehow acquiring another horse!

        It's really only been the past few years that I've gotten a little ahead of the game, with a decent amount in non-retirement savings for emergencies/layoffs/whatever. (Time to buy another horse!)

        So now I finally get to my point. Which is that I find it more difficult now than it ever used to be as far as the whole "do everything possible to save your horse" thing goes. Before, it was real simple. I couldn't afford a $10,000 surgery, so it wasn't going to happen. Now, I could pay cash if I wanted to, and if not I have a couple of hefty credit card limits on cards carrying no balances, so I could charge pretty much anything.

        But does that make it a good thing to do? Certainly, when I sit down and look at my long term financial needs, my head says clearly that expensive treatments that do not have HIGH probabilities of success (defined as horse happy, painfree, pasture sound without continuig complications - a pretty generous definition) should not be undertaken.

        But then there you are in the moment and the heart has a mind of its own. Before, even the heart would have understood that it wasn't affordable, but now? Yes, it's affordable, if I compromise some of my longer term goals for retirement, but should I? And yet if I don't, will I be judged by others who know that I could have spent the money if I wanted to? And I love my horses, of course I want them with me for as long as possible. My horses are the prime motivator of my adult life, and yet...if I spend money on expensive surgery which may or may not give my horse her life back, and then I'm laid off three months later, was that really a good decision, even if it looked like I could easily afford it?

        So I have no answers, only more angst to add to this already long topic.

        "Enjoy every day with your horses, for they truly are a gift of life." - L. Wilson
        Only one cat - must not be totally crazy yet!

        Comment


        • Re: six-figure incomes.

          In a lot of urban areas, where housing prices have gotten to be VERY high, a six-figure income is just barely enough to pay a mortgage. A typical house in the LA area is now going in the half-million dollar range. That's an ordinary perhaps 1500 sf house, with a small yard, in a neighborhood with average or better schools.

          And in that sort of area, board with all expenses of $600 would be pretty frugal.

          Yes, one might choose to live elsewhere, where housing expenses were lower... but then one wouldn't have a six-figure income either.
          If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

          Comment


          • Heck, move right on over here. You can buy a townhouse up the road a few minutes for a mere 600,000. Or head into Arlington, along a main road and metro stop- 800k anyone?

            Of course, many of us are familiar with one of the neon signs that shouts I AM NOT READY TO OWN A HORSE! Them (knows nothing or little about horses but has craved one forever, won't get into lessons because they're "too expensive" or their rents won't let them): "... and he only costs X dollars." You: "That's a great price but see, that horse isn't suitable for a beginner. And you should remember that buying a horse is pennies compared to what you'll be spending." Them: "Are you crazy?! Buying a horse isn't nothing!" And I mean it in the way not that it's not a lot of money to shelf out; the kind where you really know that they think buying the horse is the big financial thing.

            -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
            Honored founder of the Teen Clique, Homeschool Clique, Boarding School Clique, and Proud to be a Mushroom Head/ Wear a Helmet Clique; member of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique
            <><

            Comment


            • I think that really this is about life choices and what each person is comfortable doing/giving up in order to have the type of life they feel is important.

              That said, I do think it is very important to understand from the start just what is involved when you take ownership of a horse. And it is NOT just having the $.

              Are you able to devote the TIME? Does your family,friends,husband UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT the fact that you may not be able to: go away that weekend (horse got injured),go out to eat(you have been working days&have to ride at night),you haven't prepared a nice dinner in ???,or the house is a mess(because you work and need to ride the horse)....

              Do they understand that should finances go south...Selling a horse is not like cancelling a membership to a golf club...you do not just say "OK sell him"...and poof he is sold!

              Do you have the emotional strength when it comes time to think of the HORSE and not yourself and allow him a dignified end? (I'm thinking of Coreene)

              I just think there is so much for people to consider in addition to money before taking on a partnership with a horse.

              So many people here have shared their stories about what life choices they have made to keep their horses...and I haven't seen any regrets...
              So, I guess I believe they have made the RIGHT choice for themselves no matter what "important" things they have given up...that is really not for anyone else to judge!

              Comment


              • Some things on this thread are hitting home with me right now...I have a 10 year old cat who I love so much who was just diagnosed with a rare condition that requires a $2,000 surgery or euthanasia. He only has a 50/50 chance with the surgery. We can come up with the money but we are pretty maxed out now. We've decided to go ahead and do it- surgery is scheduled for Monday.
                I have so many thoughts going through my head- somehow I feel irresponsible or crazy for spending this much money (don't know why) and I also worry about making him go through more stress and pain with an uncertain outcome. So please, some positive thoughts for my kitty!

                Comment


                • Saratoga, good luck with your cat. At 10, you can have many more years with him if all goes well. Ask the vet if you can pay it off over a few months rather than one lump, which will probably make it a lot easier.

                  A story that may cheer you up: when our current cat was 1-year old and had only been living with us for a week, he was run over. The vet recommended that he be put to sleep, but if we wanted to operate, we wouldn't be charged if he died on the operating table (nice vet). Well, he lived, and we got a hellacious bill (perfectly justifiable of course). So to get a little breather on the finances I did some writing for a local paper--science writing, I'm an astronomer--and that lead to more writing for magazines, and so forth. SO not only did my cat get another lease on life, but I got into a nice little sideline which I wouldn't have done otherwise. These things can actually be positive!

                  --s.

                  Under carefully controlled conditions of breeding, training, and care, a horse will do whatever it damn well pleases.
                  Under carefully controlled conditions of breeding, training, and care, a horse will do whatever it damn well pleases.

                  Comment


                  • Dear PonyFixer,

                    Obviously my comments struck close to home, and of course, I do not know you, or your practice. My comments were not directed at you personally. I stand by my statement however...do YOU really prefer people DO NOT choose to have expensive surgeries for their pet? The way you made it sound... you are not making any money on those procedures at all.....

                    BUT, as a horse owner, and vet bill payer...I have some observations. The expensive equipment that you speak of is, well, expensive. BUT, it is there in your (or your bosses) office or clinic and necessary whether or not you perform a surgery. That is a fixed cost. In fact, all of the costs you mentioned...your time, etc, are fixed costs, unless you own the practise yourself.

                    The "basics" ie, vaccinations, routine procedures, etc. are overcharged for a reason. Somebody has to pay for the overhead of all that equipment, the salaries, the vet clinic, etc! The same reason why hospitals charge so much for an aspirin, and a hospital bed. These basic costs are upped to pay for all the overhead.

                    There IS a profit to be realized, especially in the big surgeries, once the overhead has been paid. Whether or not the vet performing the surgery sees the profit is a question of who owns the practise or clinic. But someone DOES make a profit. This is fine!! I I never questioned the prices of the vet. It is like any other business.

                    Perhaps the small vet does have a hard time making ends meet,(although, definately not in Switzerland) but from what I understand, and what I see here, at least...the clinics that specialize in equine surgery in areas that have high dollar horses (ie, owners have insurance or are willing to pay for the horses to have surgery) make a LOT of money. And it isn't from the vaccinations.

                    Of course, the reason that I say all of this is to go back to my original point. IMHO, YES, most vets(perhaps not you WOULD prefer that you elect to have the surgery. This is not sinister or bad, just common sense. Why would they NOT want your pet to receive a surgery that your animal needed or they suggested? They are not the ones who have to pay the bill...and in their perspective...they want to try to save the animal! Perfectly understandable. I doubt ANY of us WOULD NOT want to have a surgery performed that could (maybe) save our pets life! The unfortunate reality is...can we afford it? But, that question does not have any correlation with how good a pet owner you are, in my opinion. And, as many of you have pointed out, there are priority questions....it isn't Mom or Dad on the table...it is a dog, cat or horse.

                    So, again, to beat a dead horse... I say again, IMHO you don't need have money stockpiled in order to own a horse. You should be able to meet the basic needs of your horse. I think we all can agree to this. What horse you own (ie, how much you spend on the purchase price), what level of care you want to provide(ie, big barn, little barn, training, etc), what commitment (priority)level you have towards your horse is YOUR business. There is a big difference betweeen neglect and not being able to pay a multi thousand dollar vet bill.

                    [This message was edited by CHJoker on May. 05, 2004 at 05:10 AM.]

                    Comment


                    • I don't know what to say but here goes, I agree to a point that if you are living check to check it would be hard to own a horse and properly care for it but depending on the situation every one is different....
                      Take my case I have a 33 year old mare I have let it be known that there will be NO HEROIC measures taken for her (call this what you want) I could get the money BUT at her age I have had her 3 years now why prolong anything,she has had a wonderful purposefull life and is now a lawn ornament.
                      Does that make me a bad owner? In my eyes certainly not, if it weren't for me she would be dead , now do you think thats cruel? I shouldn't have saved her because I will not spend $$$$$$$$$$$$ on her?
                      I spent about $5000 in the first year I had her on medical alone (not including board or food). Please don't turn this into a fight I am just stating what I think.



                      The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but rather, "Can they suffer?" ~Jeremy Bentham
                      The question is not, \"Can they reason?\" nor, \"Can they talk?\" but rather, \"Can they suffer?\" ~Jeremy Bentham

                      Comment


                      • What exactly is the definition of "living paycheck to paycheck?"

                        I've seen it used so many times in this thread, and I have an idea of what it means to me, but I don't know what the standard definition is.

                        "We all need mirrors to remind ourselves who we are." M E M E N T O

                        Comment


                        • No savings to fall back on. Each paycheck is spent (or committed) to monthly bills and any unforseen but predictable occurance such as auto repair or illness causes debt.

                          Friendship is Love without his wings
                          -Lord Byron
                          "If you would have only one day to live, you should spend at least half of it in the saddle."

                          Comment


                          • This thread is bringing back painful memories of the first time I got a vet bill with a comma in it! That was a rather abrupt awakening to the world of owning horses!

                            The bill was for exams, x-rays, nerve blockings, etc in an effort to diagnose a lameness--we hadn't even gotten to the treatment yet! I knew there were more big vet bills on the horizon!

                            I had major medical but (for various reasons, mostly that I didn't really read through the policy I got and it was a poor one) it didn't cover that exam. I had money set aside for "horse emergencies." It was nice that I could write that check and not worry about whether it would clear or where the money would come from.

                            I have better major medical now. But, for me, I still couldn't be comfortable not having some kind of cushion in place for emergencies--even with major medical.

                            I like being able to say "do the additional x-rays if that's the best way to figure out what's going on." I don't like having to make the decision between doing what the vet recommends vs. what my finances can handle.

                            Obviously, there are limits. If we were talking $10,000, then I'd have to make that decision based somewhat on my finances. But there is an amount that I feel I need to put aside to give me mental peace of mind about most likely emergencies.

                            Your milage may vary, and if you can manage horses on a shoe string budget that's your choice and I applaud you. Personally, I can't handle that kind of stress. Money worries are not something I deal with well.

                            However, there are some things that I think you need to be able to afford before you can consider--or continue--horse ownership. For example, I remember 2 ponies who came to our barn for evaluation as possible new lesson ponies. There were sweet as can be. Extremely patient teachers who would put up with the most unblanced, uncoordinated little (or BIG) up-downer.

                            Unfortunately, the poor guys had the most awful feet. They hadn't been trimmed in over 4 months (it could have been longer than that, we never got the full story). They didn't have elf shoes or anything, but they were still quite awful looking.

                            The owner had fallen on hard times (which is why he was looking to sell the ponies to the lesson program). Heck that could happen to anyone and I don't hold that against anyone.

                            What I do have a problem with is the fact that, rather than face up to the issue at hand (financial problems), he kept putting off things like getting the ponies' feet trimmed in hopes that "next month will be better--I'll do it next month." And the months went by without the ponies getting their feet trimmed.

                            Unfortunately, by the time he decided that things weren't getting better, this guy was really in the hole financially. As a result, he was asking so much for the ponies (in an effort to cover outstanding bills) that they really were much more than my barn owner would pay for lesson ponies. They went back and forth with negotiations. My barn owner felt so sorry for these ponies (and for the owner, I think) that she offered more than the ponies were worth, but that still wasn't enough for the ponies' owner who kept thinking he'd find a buyer for them who would pay enough to cover his ever-growing bills.

                            The ponies ended up having to go back to the owner. They had been given trims while at our barn (and vaccinations too I think). But we were all sad to see them go knowing what they were going back to. It was just very sad all around.



                            "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

                            Comment


                            • Many jingles Saratgoa!

                              -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
                              Honored founder of the Teen Clique, Homeschool Clique, Boarding School Clique, and Proud to be a Mushroom Head/ Wear a Helmet Clique; member of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique
                              <><

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                You raise some very good points Claire.

                                As to vets... I just have this one observation to make. I have known, personally and professionally, a whole host of vets over the years. I worked for a couple... my uncle is one, and I know a number of others pretty well. I HAVE NEVER KNOWN A RICH VET. Never. I'm sure they exist... but I sure don't know where.

                                Vets are professionals and though most of them choose this line of work because they love animals... it IS a BUSINESS to them. Of COURSE they are looking to make money. Most of them are just above "scraping by"... some are comfortable middle class... but it is not a profession you enter to become a millionaire. I think there are very few vets out there who would recommend some expensive surgery just so they can recover the costs of some piece of equipment. As a group, I find them to be honest individuals who do whatever is best for the animal. I'm sure there are exceptions.

                                Comment


                                • Oh geez, lets end this now

                                  I have a few vets who are close friends, and they are not fabulously wealthy, but they make a good living. AS they should. I know my personal equine vet (granted, in Switzerland) makes ALOT of money. His huge house, huge mercedes, and girlfriends all attest to this. But, I don't think all vets live to this standard. BTW, my vet is a specialized equine surgeon.

                                  I DID NOT SAY (nor believe) that a vet is just trying to make money when they suggest surgery. I did say, YES, the vet would prefer that the owner have their pet undergo surgery if they needed it. PERIOD.

                                  So, this discussion (for me) is finished. I can financially afford my horse. It is worth every penny

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    CHJoker- my post was not aimed directly at you... there have been several posters who've commented on this issue... and I don't think any of them are saying that all vets are a bunch of money grubbing jerks... I was just having a "thought"

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyingstardust:
                                      Is there anyone out there who is like me? Horse-less and barley getting by in this world?
                                      &lt;3
                                      ToXiC<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Definately.

                                      We make enough to cover our bills, and rarely have anything left over. Partboarding a horse isn't an option right now, forget about owning one! To lessen the stress of having 3 cats at home (and worrying about vet bills), I got pet insurance. To get my riding fix I've been taking any free ride that's offered to me(exercising & schooling horses for friends). Sure it's not the same as owning a horse, but it is still riding and a heck of a lot cheaper!

                                      I figure one day I'll have my own horse again so I try not to let it get to me. I try to take comfort in the fact that I don't have to worry about unexpected vet bills, etc.

                                      ------------------------------
                                      I'm an angel, honest! The horns are just there to keep the halo straight.

                                      Comment


                                      • Flyingstardust, I sure couldn't afford a horse when I was 19! I did have one though, thanks to my mother.

                                        I also couldn't afford a horse when my husband was in graduate school. This was a pretty long period of time! I found out it was pretty easy to find horses that needed to be ridden. I found a lot of really nice horses to ride, and I even got paid to ride some of them!! Sure won't say no to that!!!

                                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde
                                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                                        Comment


                                        • I think this is one of the first long, highly-debated threads on which I can honestly say I can see where every single poster is coming from and appreciate his or her viewpoint.

                                          Why?

                                          Because, as someone else said, it is about life choices.

                                          It's about what you are willing to do without in order to have something else. And these are extremely personal decisions that, unless someone or something is truly suffering because of the decision, no one really has the right to step in and judge the person.

                                          I sold my mare to finance my husband's and my first house (we were VERY young) because we needed the money and I knew we would not be able to afford the monthly bills, much less emergency vet expenses). We were absolutely walking the financial line. I still rode, but horse ownership was out of the question.

                                          My good friend got married a few years later and decided to keep her horses and keep competing. It was a financial hardship for them and she was constantly working to pay for them all, but it was the path she chose.

                                          Four years later, my husband and I make a heck of a lot more money than we did starting out, but still would not be comfortable with horse costs until we both get our upcoming raises. We donate a good bit to charity, we like to eat out, we drive home a lot to our family (gas $$), and we like not being nauseated with every trip we make to the grocery store. As it is, we have decided the timing will be right to try having a baby soon (we have carefully reviewed what the finances will be and have good savings). It looks like a horse will then totally be out of the question because I will be working part-time eventually, but I am okay with that. Because, once again, it is simply the choice we have made.

                                          I get a lot of funny looks from my friend who knew me in my competing days. They wonder why I haven't bought another horse yet. And I know EXACTLY what justthemom means when she says that despite her income, with the way she wants to live her life, she cannot afford a horse at this point. I can't either.

                                          ***
                                          The hardest to learn was the least complicated.

                                          [This message was edited by kt on May. 05, 2004 at 02:51 PM.]

                                          [This message was edited by kt on May. 05, 2004 at 02:52 PM.]
                                          ***
                                          The hardest to learn was the least complicated.

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