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Are you financially stable enough to be a horse owner?

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  • It's ok horse_poor {pat...pat...pat..} We'll start up a fund and get you the professional help that you need.

    Take care of horse_poor everyone... I'm off to work.

    "My husband said it was him or the horses ... I miss him sometimes."

    Comment


    • I totally agree with MistyBlue and the idea that financial planning should be taught in school. I just took a job with a financial planning company and went to orientation and found out this tidbit of information. Take 2 people age 22. A. invests $2000 a year for 6 years and then nothing until he is 65. B. spends %2000 on himself for 6 years and then the remaining years invests $2000 a year till he's 65. Who has more money at age 65? With equal interst rates they have virtually the same amount of money at age 65!!! So start young kiddies!!!

      Right now, if there was high dollar emergency vet call, I'd have to borrow the money. BUT, I have no debt, so this it isn't really that bad for me. My husband and I were not all that good with finances. TWICE we got ourselves into very high credit card debt and twice we were saved by real estate. We were able to sell our house to pay off debt and even have some left over. SO, I am working to rectify my bad habits (no more debt...except for my car payment and a future house payment.)

      The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde
      The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        Some clarifications and a request:

        First- too all you "gnomers". I can appreciate the humor, sort of... but I started this thread to discuss a serious topic, and I was considerate enough not to "hijack" another thread that was going in another direction. The "gnome" talk is unnecessarily cluttering what I think is basically a good discussion. If you don't think its a good discussion, or would rather not participate, then don't... but the gnome-ing is getting old... please take it somewhere else. Just a gentle request.

        Second- There have been a lot of responses made here,... that are responding (sometimes vehemently) to points that I don't think anyone has made. Either I'm missing them, or people are misinterpreting the intent of my original post... or some others: Here are some points I *think* we are all in agreement on (though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

        1) No one is saying that you need a certain minimum salary to be a responsible horse owner. Every circumstance is different. You can be a responsible horse owner making $15,000 a year, and you can be an irresponsible horse owner making $500,000 a year.

        2) No one is saying that if you're not willing/capable of paying $X amount for emergency surgery, you are a bad horse owner.

        3) No one is saying that if you're living "paycheck to paycheck" you're a bad horse owner.

        If anyone thought that that was the intent of my original post, I'm sorry for the confusion. As we've seen here, the "paycheck to paycheck" standard is a bit confusing, and people take that to mean different things. Initially, I was using that phrase (perhaps poorly) to refer to someone who was living "too close to the line". In other words... if you can barely afford rent, don't go buy a horse. (Obviously... things happen, so I concede that there might be a responsible person who falls on hard times, and for a period of time, owns a horse and can barely pay rent... )

        The whole point of my post, which I guess I didn't make very clear... is that before you buy a horse, a responsible person evaluates their personal finances, does their best estimate of costs... and that estimate SHOULD include SOME allowance for "emergencies"... because, as we all know... these are horses, and "emergencies" are basically a "normal" occurance.

        No one ever thinks that THEY are being financially irresponsible. But if you've embarked on the journey of horse ownership, without taking a candid look at your finances, and considering what your options will be and what decisions you are comfortable making,...then I think you are being irresponsible.

        Comment


        • Just my honest opinion...but this whole topic of "affording" a horse based soley on whether or not you can afford expensive surgery is really elitist.

          There is a huge difference between providing for the basics of horse care, and being able to pay the 10,000 dollar surgery that may or may not save your animals life. It doesn't really surprise me that a vet would say " if you can't afford the surgery, you can't afford an animal". DUH...he would REALLY like for everyone to be able and willing to afford expensive surgery for their pet. That is a biased view, to say the least. If you want to pay that, great, but it DOES NOT make you a bad pet owner if you do not do everything humanely possible (including emptying your bank account) to save your pet. AND IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A BETTER OWNER OR PERSON IF YOU DO PAY FOR THE SURGERY(which some posters evidently feel strongly is the case) Good owners are classified by how they take care of their animals on a daily basis, not just in the face of an emergency, nor by what is in their bank accounts. FACT OF LIFE: ANIMALS DIE. It is presumptious at BEST to assume that someone is a bad pet owner or shouldn't own pets because they can't afford an expensive surgery. That is like saying that no one should have children because someday they might need a life saving operation that, oh, by the way, costs 150,000 dollars, that, by the way, insurance probably won't cover.

          Should you have a pet if you can't afford to feed it and take care of routine needs?? NO. I don't think any of us think that.

          Short of that, though...give me a break. I would never suggest that someone is a horrible person or owner because they didn't shell out thousands to hopefully save their horse, whether or not they could actually afford it. Quite frankly, that is no ones business but the owners. (mind you, I am not talking of abuse or neglect, I am speaking of expensive surgeries or medical treatments).

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rileyt:
            Some clarifications and a request:

            First- too all you "gnomers". I can appreciate the humor, sort of... but I started this thread to discuss a serious topic, and I was considerate enough not to "hijack" another thread that was going in another direction. The "gnome" talk is unnecessarily cluttering what I think is basically a good discussion. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            THANK YOU!!

            I think you opened up an excellent discussion and something that we all should be thinking about.

            The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde
            The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seahorsefarms:
              Well, what would you do if your situation changed right now and you became financially strapped (like some of us)? Would you sell the horse? What if he was a 23 YO and unsalable? Send him to a rescue (we've all heard some horror stories about this, although NOT ALL OPERATIONS, but it can get ugly once ownership is relinquished)? Send him to slaughter?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              If I lost my job, Rudy would be for sale so fast, it would make your head spin. If he was unsaleable and I could find no other option, I'd put him down.

              My fabulous husband has made it possible for me to spend my money on horses by paying for everything else. I could never subject him to financial difficulties for something that is, bottom line, a frivolous luxury in every mind but my own.

              Horses are bought and sold all the time and I think we are being supremely arrogant when we think our horse will only be properly care for by us.

              *****
              Still trying to find the answers to life's persistent questions.
              *****
              You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

              Comment


              • riley the only reason the gnome thing was brought up, as it is in other threads, is to subtly guide the thread away from the screamin potential of a train wreck it has....a tact used on many a thread....brings a little comic relief and allows people to take a deep breath and gather their thoughts......certainly not trying to down play the seriousness of the thread, as it is a very serious one of which got people up in arms (myself included)

                that being said i am off to find a trust fund baby to take my poor horses as i live paycheck to paycheck and shouldnt own them

                ******************************
                molly
                **proud member of the calendar- CBW FOR LIFE !!**
                http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971
                www.oasisequestrian.com
                Co-founder of White Trash Dressage (WTD)
                http://www.lulu.com/mavw1971
                also available on Amazon.com
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                Comment


                • Midge, no offense here, BUT WHAT??

                  I am glad that your fabulous husband allows you to spend every dime you make on your horse, but is this really necessary in order to own a horse?

                  Are you suggesting that if you lost your job, your husband wouldn't help you out and you couldn't find a cheaper alternative for a few months until you found another job? You would sell your horse before you cut other expenses? Well, more power to you! Every bit your right.

                  BUT...

                  I think "we are being supremely arrogant" to assume that others should do the same.

                  As far as being a "frivolous luxury" in every mind but my own"....huh??? Who are you hanging out with? For me, and I bet for most of us here...our horses are very important to us, and not a "frivolous luxury". My horse is more important to me, personally, than any material thing that I own.

                  JMHO of course.

                  [This message was edited by CHJoker on May. 04, 2004 at 10:31 AM.]

                  Comment


                  • "Justthemom, I'm not going to apologize for calling you a potential troll. You only had 4 or 5 posts, most of them on this thread"

                    Silver: No one asked for an apology, and none was expected. I can handle the fact that name-callers exist in this world. Some grow out of it, some don't. I won't ever change that fact. Yes, I had only a few posts. Everyone does start somewhere. And what an enlightening initiation into the COTH boards it's been. But I won't hold a grudge, I know most people are probably very polite.

                    "...and you were making some pretty big assertions about what kind of an income was appropriate for horse ownership in your opinion."

                    Silver: I'm afraid I feel required to politely correct you, as I don't care to have my words twisted in order for you to make your point. If we could use "quotes" in BBs...it would avoid our restating a poster's original words, and turning them into what the reader THINKS they might mean. Just makes things a little clearer. For instance...I would NEVER in a million years say "what kind of an income was appropriate for horse ownership". What I DID say was that, on MY income, I could never afford a horse.

                    "You were the one who brought up your income and asserted that in your opinion "six-figures" was not enough to support a horse"

                    Silver: THIS is what I said, taken as a direct quote from my post: "I have a 6 figure income ... and I'd NEVER think I could afford a horse" Because I simply don't understand why this statment bothers you so much, I don't know how to help you feel better about it. So I can only reiterate it. But the saying of it does not make me a troll. But...I AM a little on the short side ...if that counts toward being considered a troll.

                    "And while you may be someone's mom you're not my mother and I don't need to be told off by you for stating my opinion that your postings seemed inconsistent and inflammatory. They did to me."

                    Silver: I don't really think you'll find any post I've entered that could be categorized as "telling you off", but it's all in the eye of the beholder I guess. Just as I haven't said anything remotely inconsistent. Now, calling someone a troll...I'm thinking that's a bit inflammatory. I've frequently found myself in a quandry as to why those who protest the loudest, most often are the worst offenders. I'm tending to wonder why my not being able to own a horse means so very much to you that you've devoted this time to it.

                    Anyway...Im pretty even keeled. Telling someone off is not my thing. But I have been known to expend energy righting my good name. But, hey...we all see things as we want to see them. And that's what makes life a challenge.

                    "If you choose not to buy your daughter a horse, that is your choice."

                    Yes, I know. But thanks so much for your input and support.

                    Mom

                    [This message was edited by justthemom on May. 04, 2004 at 10:38 AM.]

                    Comment


                    • I don't understand what is so wrong with Midge's position? I think she is saying, eloquently IMHO, that were she to lose her job, she wouldn't feel that it was fair to saddle her husband with the necessary expenses that horse ownership, even at its most basic level, entails.

                      I think that's an extremely responsible view, personally.

                      Comment


                      • Everyone has a different comfort level regarding risk. I'm guessing that most of the people who lease here spend more on the horse habit than I spend on owning a horse. My situation is just very different from many here. It wasn't about getting a competition beast....I got him (an OTTB) without even trying him out because I wanted to save him. I just happened to get lucky because in reality, he saved me.

                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde
                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                        Comment


                        • Sorry Ketch, can't really agree with you! I have been there, done that...and you CAN afford the horse in a smaller stable, pasture board, minimum extras, exchange work with the stable owner for the board, etc, until you find another job!

                          Selling my horse would be the LAST option...not the first..and certainly not " so fast your head would spin".

                          JMHO.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            I understand horsepoor. And I appreciate the attempts to keep the trainwreck from occurring... but hopefully not at the expense of "derailing" the train.

                            Maybe we can avoid a train wreck if people give each other the benefit of the doubt, and stick to responding to what people SAY... instead of what we PERCEIVE their implicit message to be... for example:

                            CHJOKER wrote:
                            ______
                            Just my honest opinion...but this whole topic of "affording" a horse based soley on whether or not you can afford expensive surgery is really elitist.
                            ________

                            WHERE did you get this? Is there a "whole topic" out there where people have made this argument? Did I miss it? Or are you imagining things? Did someone say this? Did others agree? Not from what I've been reading.

                            At times, this board is frustrating because people use controversial topics such as this to get on their soap boxes and shout "DOWN WITH THE ELITIST SCUM!" instead of focusing on the real issues.

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If we could use "quotes" in BBs...it would avoid our restating a poster's original words, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>\
                              You can quote, there is a button up by the italics button, on the row that the is on when you hit reply.

                              CHJoker: I don't think the poster was saying that everybody should do what she did. She's sharing what she chose to do.

                              (goodness, things happened fast. I reply, and discover that other people already have!!)

                              ~~~~~~
                              Member of the Lurker's Clique and the Non-GPA Clique

                              "we all have to fight our own tendencies and precoceived ideas to excell at something. " - slc

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CHJoker:
                                Should you have a pet if you can't afford to feed it and take care of routine needs?? NO. I don't think any of us think that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                I agree with all of your post, but particularly the part above. Just thought I should add that in the case of horses, "routine needs" includes occasional stitches, bute, antibiotics, etc. Let's face it, if you have a horse, there is a strong possibility that you will have a $300-500 vet bill every other year, if not every year. That's a far cry from colic surgery or other highly expensive procedures.

                                To the person that asked if I would put my horse down instead of colic surgery: I have insurance so I probably wouldn't have to. But I know the possibility exists. It would break my heart, but I'm not going to go mental trying to save a horse from a very uncertain outcome.

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>that being said i am off to find a trust fund baby to take my poor horses as i live paycheck to paycheck and shouldnt own them<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  Molly I usually agree with you, but I have to say - How can you possibly say you are joking around to keep this thread from becoming a train wreck, and then make a snitty comment like this in the same breath? I don't remember anyone telling you you shouldn't own your horses...

                                  If you must choose between two evils, choose the one that you've
                                  never tried before.
                                  If you must choose between two evils, choose the one that you've never tried before.

                                  Comment


                                  • I think it's a very valid discussion point & I do think it's something to think about. I don't think anyone is saying you have to make $x to have a horse. Or that if you don't have X, you're not a good horse owner.

                                    I do however think you need to have your financial house in order. Yes, unexpected things happen & people lose jobs, horses get sick, whatever. But I think the point Riley is making (forgive me if I'm wrong) is that you should have a basic level of financial stability BEFORE you get a horse. If you can't pay your bills (whatever they are),buying an expensive animal with expensive upkeep is probably not the most fiscally responsible thing to do. You need to make sure your basic needs are covered (house, food, health, etc) before you take on a dependent in my opinion.

                                    I could go out tomorrow & buy a nice horse in cash but I wouldn't have a lot left over. I won't do it until I have enough money in the bank not only for the initial purchase but also for at least a year's worth of board, shoes, etc. Because you don't know if an emergency will happen & I could lose my job (especially given how much time I'm on COTH! ) and I would want to have enough money put away if that happened that I could have a security cushion.

                                    Frankly (dons flame suit) I think a lot of people are pretty irresponsible with money (I'm not refering to pet owners here, just talking in general). If you can't afford to pay cash for things, you probably can't afford to put them on a charge card either. The interest rates on cards can be a pretty heavy burden especially if you're already struggling to make ends meet. Live below your means & you'll usually wind up fine. Have a champagne lifestyle on a beer income & you're going to wind up in trouble. I think many of us are so worried about keeping up with the Jones & thinking we're entitled to certain things that we've created some pretty unreal expectations of the world.

                                    (PS I'm not a trust fund baby, I pay all my own bills, I was irresponsible with money & did overuse my credit cards. It took a lot of hard work & growing up on my part to become solvent, responsible & a girl with a savings account, retirement fund & investments. I know of what I speak...!)
                                    Visit us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/ranchopampa or our website at www.ranchopampa.com

                                    Comment


                                    • CHJOKER wrote:
                                      ______
                                      Just my honest opinion...but this whole topic of "affording" a horse based soley on whether or not you can afford expensive surgery is really elitist.
                                      ________

                                      Riley T: WHERE did you get this? Is there a "whole topic" out there where people have made this argument? Did I miss it? Or are you imagining things? Did someone say this? Did others agree? Not from what I've been reading.
                                      _________________________________________________

                                      CH JOKER ANSWER: Well, yes Riley T, there was a "whole topic" not necessarily YOUR original topic : You might want to review....
                                      quote from CuteHunter: Page 3:

                                      "
                                      I personally dont live paycheck to paycheck and am in no way a trustfund baby (just got lucky that my first real world job pays decently) but I still wouldnt buy a horse now even though I could techinically afford it. I just think that until you can afford most surgeries (including some very expensive colic surgery) you should stick to leasing/partboarding. SOrry if that offends but frankly, people to often forget that horses are a luxury and until you can truly afford one adn the MANY associated costs, you shouldn't buy one.".

                                      These kind of comments (this isn't the only one) is what I was specifically referring to.

                                      Who is on the soapbox?? That is the pot calling the kettle black...don't ya think?

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smigget:
                                        [QUOTE] If we could use "quotes" in BBs...it would avoid our restating a poster's original words,

                                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>\
                                        You can quote, there is a button up by the italics button, on the row that the is on when you hit reply.


                                        Smigget: Thanks! I am new, but I did discover that button (see? using it now!). I admit though, I only saw it AFTER I'd already quoted in a different way. But the real point of my asking that WE use quotes...was to subtly suggest it (obviously too subtly) as a means to avoid misrepresenting what other people are saying. I was trying to direct that universal WE toward those who are twisting words. I just hate to see the discussions become tanited with bad vibes. But I REALLY appreciate any help you're willing to give...that was very kind.
                                        Mom

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CHJoker:
                                          Midge, no offense here, BUT WHAT??

                                          I am glad that your fabulous husband allows you to spend every dime you make on your horse, but is this really necessary in order to own a horse?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          No, it's not and of course it would depend on circumstances. He has shouldered the huge majority of our 'joint' bills. Bottom line, he could not also have a hobby as expensive as my horse, so already our situation is inherently unfair. and where did I say 'every' dime'?
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                                          Are you suggesting that if you lost your job, your husband wouldn't help you out and you couldn't find a cheaper alternative for a few months until you found another job? You would sell your horse before you cut other expenses? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Mr. Midge would want to do whatever it took, if that's what I wanted. But, once again, because our situation is already unfair, I couldn't ask him to do much, for long.

                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think "we are being supremely arrogant" to assume that others should do the same.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Where did I say everyone should do the same?

                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                                          As far as being a "frivolous luxury" in every mind but my own"....huh??? Who are you hanging out with? For me, and I bet for most of us here...our horses are very important to us, and not a "frivolous luxury". My horse is more important to me, personally, than any material thing that I own. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Geesh! Am I really so unclear??? MY horse is a frivolous luxury to everyone but me. I alone think my horse is not a frivolous luxury.

                                          *****
                                          Still trying to find the answers to life's persistent questions.
                                          *****
                                          You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                                          Comment

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