Are you financially stable enough to be a horse owner?

[MistyBlue]

Well, here's my two cents if they're worth anything.

IMO...financial responsibility should eb taught in school. Through almost all grades...from check book balancing to 401K management to the evil hell of over extended credit card debt. Yes, some people have great jobs with great incomes in which they can afford the luxury of pets. (any type) And then they can lose those jobs and have tough decisions to make. However (flame suit o here just in case) if while they had the great job they didn't live above their means they wouldn't always have as tough a time as they could if they lost that job. I've known people who've made low 6 figure incomes and live wildly extravagant. One or two brand new luxury vehicles in the driveway every few years, big vacations put on credit cards, runway type wardrobes, eating out constantly and horses. They lose the job and find they cannot afford the debt they have. I've also known peope to have mid 6 figure incomes who keep their old cars, purchase clothing wisely, vacation by camping or RV-ing, and when they lose their jobs they can more easily keep their horses. We're a country of debt mongers mainly. Not all of us, but it seems the vast majority are.
If the animal is young and insurable, insure it. If not, and you don't have a secure comfortable income job, put away what you can when you can. And don't touch it if a tack shop has a sale...or if a new car is being offered at a cheap sounding lease...and stay in to eat and not hit the restaurants. Maybe hit a few less shows. Maybe pare the lesson down to every other week. Maybe not lust after the $350 skunky helmet because everyone else has one. Maybe not pick up that one extra horse that's being offered for free as a project horse. Darned things are like potato chips once many of us get one we HAVE to have all the new stuff, trendy stuff and more lessons, shows or horses. Sometimes we have to make the long term financial decision when our loved ones get older to stop showing and not buy another younger horse for shows because we're not sure if we can afford the health care in the long run on the steady-eddie big hariball who loves us greatly and gave us the best years of it's life.

Equine Crash Test Dummy
Member of: Non-GPA Clique
Auto Release Clique
Connecticut Clique
Helmet Nazi Clique

[Mosby]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by xegeba:
the nice thing about Jaguar's is they don't get sick and die.... [QUOTE]

Yes, they do. Trust me. Very painful, long, slow, horrid, expensive deaths.

[RugBug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ketch:
To bip: So are you saying that if your horse required colic surgery, you wouldn't have it done because it costs too much money? I'm confused.

I agree with your self-education argument. I stand by my assertion, however, that it is irresponsible to own a horse if you will not pay for medically necessary procedures.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to answer for bip, but at a certain point, a point I've decided on in advance, I wouldn't pay for colic surgery.

I actually think it can be cruel to do the surgery. Which is harder on the horse? Being allowed to leave the pain behind or to go through more pain, surgery, recovery, etc with higher chances of recurrence? There's a point surgery is only me holding on too tightly to a beloved animal that I have been given charge over.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I didn't jump. I took a tiny step and there conclusions were." --Buffy

[Chef Jade]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rosijet:

I think I have a point... Without a doubt, horse ownership can be costly and difficult but each person's standard can be vastly different. Each individual should honestly try to determine what will work for them, and I'm not sure that we should judge others for their decisions if the animal is not abused or neglected.

"Crazy is just another point of view" Sonia Dada<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I completely agree with this. I don't think we should judge if someone's horse needs emergency surgery that they just can't afford, and choose to HUMANELY euthenize them after exploring all other possible options.

I boarded at a barn in Malibu (obviously a VERY expensive property, with a VERY wealthy barn owner.) Her old pet pony coliced. She called the vet, and the vet reccomeded she put the horse down. The procedure would have cost a couple hundred, plus cost to remove the body.
So what does she do? Calls the killer to come pick up the pony, who had to suffer for days on a truck to Texas only be ver INHUMAELY destroyed. We of course didn't know any of this had happened until it was too late. These are the kinds of pet owners I think we should condem.

Personally, I have decided to forgo buying a house because it would wipe-out my emergency horse fund. Though my guy is insured.

But one thing I am concerned about it selling my horse. What will be the buyers financial "threshold" before choosing to put the horse down? How can you be sure the people who buy your animal will choose to do as much as they can? Are we being neglectful by selling our animals to anyone without a trust fund?

Come and visit the horses at: http://www.crosscreek.tk

[tosca4711]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RugBug:

Not to answer for bip, but at a certain point, a point I've decided on in advance, I wouldn't pay for colic surgery.

I actually think it can be cruel to do the surgery. Which is harder on the horse? Being allowed to leave the pain behind or to go through more pain, surgery, recovery, etc with higher chances of recurrence? There's a point surgery is only me holding on too tightly to a beloved animal that I have been given charge over. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have often thought this myself.
I've never had to make this particular decision.

Tosca

[silver]

Justthemom, I'm not going to apologize for calling you a potential troll. You only had 4 or 5 posts, most of them on this thread and you were making some pretty big assertions about what kind of an income was appropriate for horse ownership in your opinion. You were the one who brought up your income and asserted that in your opinion "six-figures" was not enough to support a horse.

And while you may be someone's mom you're not my mother and I don't need to be told off by you for stating my opinion that your postings seemed inconsistent and inflammatory. They did to me.

If you choose not to buy your daughter a horse, that is your choice.

Thank you, have a nice day

[BelladonnaLily]

Choo choooooo! Can ya hear the whistle blow?

[Raspberry]

Mistyblue - We are of the same mind on the education issue. There should be, without a doubt, a course in high school that covers income tax, 401k and all that jazz (and most definitely credit cards).

I think its clear that everyone has there own tolerance level. And at the end of the day, there is no right or wrong as long as the horse is well fed, sees the vet and farrier and is kept comfortable (i.e. you have money to address emergencies like a gash needing stitches and the like, but no necessarily being obligated to afford 10k worth of surgery).

I would not buy a horse if I had any debt (outside of morgage and maybe car payments), and if I could not afford to comfortably put aside average board in area + 50%. And even then, I would probably run it like that for about 6 months before buying the horse so that I had a contingency fund.

Thats MY threshold. And thats when I feel I can afford a horse and all the resposability that comes with one. And I would take offense at anyone telling me, I choose not to afford a horse. I do everything within my power to make sure I can afford my horse, I have to ensure that I'm around to provide for the horse. That means making sure I have a roof over my head, a car to get to and from work, insurance, food and saving for my retirement...in after tax dollars. So if I were to say I couldn't afford, I would have been after REALISTICALLY examining the situation.

I was thinking...oh, wait, that wasn't me.

[xegeba]

Belladonna, what kind of car do you drive?(please don't say a Jag) Do you lease or own?

[BelladonnaLily]

I am the proud owner of a Toyota Corolla that is literally falling apart before my eyes. And it's a '99. I'm hard on a car. The struts are shot from hauling all of that feed. We're looking at Suburbans but I'll be keeping the Corolla for a work car or else I'd HAVE to give up the horses to afford the gas!

I'd never own a Jag (even if I could afford one). I've always been a Toyota person (we sold my 4-Runner a few years ago) so it'd have to be a Sequoia or Land Cruiser for me.

Now I have to ask...why?

edited to add: Leasing is quite possibly one of the worst financial decisions one can make regarding a PERSONAL vehicle. A mistake that I made once. Gave the vehicle up a year early and forked out over 6,000 out of pocket to pay the lease off. I was almost up on miles and had realized my mistake and did not want to shell out even more the following year to pay for excess miles. If I had bought the vehicle at the end of the lease, a $22,000 vehicle when we first bought it would have cost around 50,000 (possibly more, I calculated it once but I can't remember the exact amount). And that's with low-interest financing.

[BelleBoyd]

Well, well, well, what have we here? First of all, I have been horseless for 2 years (good thing as some of you think I shouldn't even have my dogs). I sold my horse whom I had owned for 13 years when I relocated, as he was 18 and I did not feel I should haul him 1000 miles at his age to a totally different climate and way of life. I sold him to a wonderful little girl who still competes him in eventing (he is now 20). When I owned my horse, most of the time his board was more expensive than my rent - this is the way I wanted it and it was MY choice! I paid all my vet bills, board, farrier, etc. on time, however, since I was an established client, I was allowed to make payments if it was something really big.

I do, however, have household pets. They get the best food (no grocery store crap for them!) and their shots are up to date and they are groomed regularly and live a VERY good life. I really was not expecting such snide remarks on my financial situation or my fitness as a pet owner. I was merely asking what people - IN MY SIMILAR SITUATION - do when faced with this particular problem.

Amazingly, I have gotten some really useful information from both of these threads. I have now started an emergency fund for my dogs to use should this occasion arise again.

I really appreciated the helpful hints, ideas and empathy from the BBers who posted these. As for the others, "Bless your hearts!!"

[BelladonnaLily]

HairyFeet...I think most people got your post. It just got way off track. I, for one, am staying out of this one.

I am glad to hear your pup is doing well! My mom's golden retriever puppy once ate glass that my grandmother thought she had totally cleaned up. Vet told my mother that if he didnt' die, he'd be okay ...just have to wait and see. Fortunately, he lived. Only to continue eating bizarre things and still live.

[SaddleFitterVA]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rileyt:
It doesn't bother me that one person, for reasons due to economic reality, might say "I can afford a horse, but I only have $1500 to spend on emergencies... so in the unfortunate event that my horse requires $10,000 worth of surgury, I will choose to put him down."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm glad you added that some may not choose to spend exorbitant amounts of vet bills and would instead opt to put down an animal.

My personal opinion is that I'd rather put down an animal that would require huge vet bills, often with questionable outcome, and spend the money on a giving a new animal a chance at a good life.

I only have one horse who I would seriously consider colic surgery for, the other 3, it just isn't an option. It is not how much I love the animal, but more about my own, long term, financial health. To go spending huge amounts would put my finances into a shaky position and then I couldn't afford any of the horses.

We all die, horse, human, dog, cat, etc. In my opinion, my responsibility as a horse owner is to provide quality food, water, annual health care, teeth floating, well fitting saddle, good farrier care, and safe transportation should I choose to haul them. I also have the responsibility to deal with emergencies. If they are injuries or illness, either case may exceed my personal threshhold for spending. If that is the case, I have the responsibility to my animal to put him down humanely and dispose of his remains.

What my personal threshhold amount is, is not relevant.

Horses are expensive and I probably could not afford them for several years. Heck, I couldn't afford a baby, I had him anyway. Kept the horses too.

Mel

[MRedmond1502]

I'm 19 and support 2 horses. Things are tight, but I also have my wonderful parents and I know that if I can't afford something they are there. Not everyone is as lucky to have this safety net. And I'm a firm believer if you can't take care of the horse (or any animal for that matter) they'd be better of with someone that could. And I know it's not an easy thing to think about. I recently sold a horse because I can't take care of 3 on a college students income. But you also have to think of the best interest of the horse. They can't depend on themselves, so they depend on us. And if we let them down who's gonne help them out. So I'm not trying to put down anyone who's struggly cause god knows I am, I just wanted to point out that the horse comes first.

I'm still under the impression today that there is nothing alive quite as beautiful as a horse.
~ john galsworthy

[Sky Meadows]

This is a good thread.

Personally, I own 3 dogs and one horse (boarded), each year, for shots, food and treats for my dogs (just the dogs), I'll spend an estimated $559, anything like teeth cleaning, etc, is extra, which can run from $50.00 and up.

Now, for my horse, who is boarded, with paying for her shots, farrier, board bill, it'd probably come out to around $4,100 a year, getting her teeth floated, which I do once a year, at least, would add probably another $100 or so, anything else is also extra. If i were to keep shoes on her right now, it'd be another 45 bucks a month.

With that being said, dogs are expensive to buy...well, atleast a registered one with good bloodlines, the breed I own range about $600-$800 for pets, and usually $650-$1500 (usually the higher end) for breed/show quality. Horses are equally expensive to buy, usually starting at $1,000 and up for a horse.

If you move, there are transport fee's etc. Since I've owned my mare, I've payed $1575.00 in transport fee's, and I have only owned her for two years. She also had an emergency vet bill that required her to stay at the vets overnight (she choked), that was another $750.00 bill (that was done shortly after I bought her & shipped her out to where i lived, and we were making payments on her).

At that time, we had no savings put up for an emergency fund, but we came up with the money somehow.

Right now, we don't have an emergancy fund for any of our animals, but we do have some money in savings, and could fork up money if we needed to for an unexpected vet bill.

I am currently thinking of putting insurance on my mare and also my Shetland Sheepdog, who will be a year in August, just in case. My two male Shetland Sheepdogs are 5 and 6 years old (both will turn 6 and 7 this year), I would pay a good sized vet bill for, as they are like family (owned their mother and owned both the boys since they were born). Basically, any animal I own, I would do anything I possible could for them, even if it meant me eating rammen noodles for years.

I may not be rich, and I may not be poor, but we do get by farely well, with some money left over when all is said and done. Every animal I own, and ever have owned is like a family member to me, and I would have and will do anything I possibly could to help them.

If you have your own place where you can keep your horses, that is one huge expense taken out of your bills every month, I know, because my father and I used to have 6 horses at home and it didn't cost anywhere near what it would have to board them. We're currently trying to buy a place (getting ready to be in escrow), so that we can do that as well, and save a little more much up each month.

You do not have to be rich to own animals. In my opinion, if you can pay for their annual shots, licensing, food, and overall upkeep (depending on the animal), I don't see why you shouldn't be able to own them. Its a very good idea to set some money aside for unexpected expenses every month, to help out when you do need it. However, if you are so strapped that you can't afford anything other than their food, and little else, I'd suggest not buying the animal....instead, like with a horse, I'd suggest leasing the horse, or, offer to help out at stables, etc in your spare time to ride horses, or take lessons, etc. There are many other ways of being able to do what you want, without having the whole expense of owning the animal.

JMO

[horse_poor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BelladonnaLily:
Choo choooooo! Can ya hear the whistle blow?



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummmmmmmmmmmm so, how are the gnomes doing today?

anyone here from betty or hank lately?

******************************
molly
**proud member of the calendar- CBW FOR LIFE !!**
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971
www.oasisequestrian.com

[SaddleFitterVA]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by justthemom:
Well, I'll still disagree. But that's OK. I don't know why my choice of words is a problem, but that's fine. I know I can't afford one. Can't afford a jaguar either, or a 2nd home. But I could make the payments on those if I wanted (OK...only ONE at a time!). But I still can't afford them. But it's ok to call it whatever you like.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JTM,

I understand. You use "afford" the same way I use "afford". I've had friends who got upset when what I really mean is that "I choose to spend my money on something else".

Now, "affording" to many, is when you are willing to give up just about everything else, and still live, then you can "afford" something. Others need more of a cushion in savings before they can "afford" something.

I personally am worried that I cannot "afford" my new farm, but obviously the bank and industry standard percentages SAY I can "afford" the new farm. I cannot "afford" both the new farm AND private school. But, that is part of why we are moving. My child wants to go to public school and the ones where we live are pretty bad. I couldn't really "afford" the private school he's been in for the past 7 years, but I figured "It's just money, I'd just spend it somewhere else". So, I gave up a few things.

I DO have horses and they are worth it to me.

I would not choose to spend exorbitant amounts on emergency vet bills because I can't "afford" that. But, I'm not going to give up my 4 horses. I can "afford" to keep all my horses until they die. That was a lifestyle choice that many choose not to make. And, given the amount of work involved, I don't blame them.

Mel

[BelladonnaLily]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horse_poor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BelladonnaLily:
Choo choooooo! Can ya hear the whistle blow?



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummmmmmmmmmmm so, how are the gnomes doing today?

anyone here from betty or hank lately?

******************************
molly
**proud member of the calendar- CBW FOR LIFE !!**
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971
http://www.oasisequestrian.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually heard Hank is in the slammer. His CHEVY broke down (yes, again ) The police stopped to help and when they looked in the back (he had that new camper shell on Betty bought him for his birthday), they found an entire family of illegal alien gnomes in the back. And there was something about an illicit "arrangement" Hank had made with said gnomes in return for transporting them across the border...

[Ain'tNoFoolinAround]

I guess I fall into the 'shouldn't have a horse' category...I live paycheck to paycheck. and, well, to be honest, some months some of the bills DON"T get paid...I had a vet come out because my guy wasn't keeping the weight on, had a manky coat, and generally looked crappy. Several hundred dollars later, we foud a partially broken tooth that was gouging a hole into his cheek. Tooth was fixed, teeth floated, bloodwork, urinalysis, internal, all that. That broke my bank account. I had NO money for quite a while...I coped, board got paid, so I had to sell some stuff I didn't use, didn't insure my car...But to me, I'd rather be broke and happy with my horse, than to sell him and be miserable. There's always a way. As to the surgery/euthanasia debate...well, god forbid *knocks on wood* If it ever happened...Well, I'll cross that bridge then.

Unofficial Founder of the Tall People Clique! Member of the Klutz Klique, Thread Killer's Clique, Mighty Thoroughbred Clique!

"What is your major malfunction?!" -Full Metal Jacket

[horse_poor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And there was something about an illicit "arrangement" Hank had made with said gnomes in return for transporting them across the border... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



OMGiH

and i thought betty and hank were not on speaking terms...why on gawds green earth would she buy him anything for his birthday..or am i confused?

******************************
molly
**proud member of the calendar- CBW FOR LIFE !!**
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971
www.oasisequestrian.com