• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

When they are ready to reach into your hands...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • When they are ready to reach into your hands...

    Anyone have tips for when they go from working on maintaining balanced to maintaining balance and reaching into the bit. How to not *hold them up* unwittingly?

  • #2
    I'm working on that right now with my guy! For me, I think of it as the difference between squeezing a horse forward into light but steady contact with the bit versus him leaning on the bit with heavy/strong contact and me holding him up.

    I start out with a loop in the reins and leg and then once he's reaching for the bit I get connected to the bridle. I do a lot of collection, extension, halts, etc. I can tell when I'm balancing him because the downward transitions lag and are messy. Once he's going nicely I drop him again and let him trot around on a loose rein. If he is balancing himself regardless of my contact there is no change of pace between a loose rein trot and a trot with contact. He doesn't speed up because he's unbalanced or rush onto his forehand.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      When they are ready to reach into your hands...

      Anyone have tips for when they go from working on maintaining balanced to maintaining balance and reaching into the bit. How to not *hold them up* unwittingly?

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        When they are ready to reach into your hands...

        Anyone have tips for when they go from working on maintaining balanced to maintaining balance and reaching into the bit. How to not *hold them up* unwittingly?

        Comment


        • #5
          Don't pull, don't pull, don't pull. Ride with 5-pound test fishing line "fuses" that will break if you start pulling. Put a loop in the rein, wrap with the fishing line and if it breaks, one of you (usually the 2-legged one) was pulling!
          Click here before you buy.

          Comment


          • #6
            What level horse?
            Can you give a more specific example of it?
            www.destinationconsensusequus.com
            chaque pas est fait ensemble

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
              What level horse?
              Can you give a more specific example of it?
              Green. Just is getting comfy and strong not falling onto his front end. He is getting strong enough to remain back and more balanced, and is starting to reach down into my hand. I want to have some tricks to catch myself so that I don't end up holding him with my hands.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                Don't pull, don't pull, don't pull. Ride with 5-pound test fishing line "fuses" that will break if you start pulling. Put a loop in the rein, wrap with the fishing line and if it breaks, one of you (usually the 2-legged one) was pulling!
                Ok. Thanks! I guess what happens is that he ends up falling back down onton his forehand. Ugh. My big Achilles heel...

                Comment


                • #9
                  If he is truly working correctly and carrying his own balance, you should only be carrying about 2lbs in each hand. When this gets to be more, then half halt to bring him back into self carriage. You can do walk, trot, walk, canter, walk transitions, with about four strides of each, to shift his balance back, too.

                  As a check to see if he is in self carriage, try giving both reins forward for a stride or two, to see if he maintains his balance. If he falls on his forehand, then he is not seeking the rein, but seeking for you to carry him around the arena.
                  When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Auburn View Post
                    If he is truly working correctly and carrying his own balance, you should only be carrying about 2lbs in each hand. When this gets to be more, then half halt to bring him back into self carriage. You can do walk, trot, walk, canter, walk transitions, with about four strides of each, to shift his balance back, too.

                    As a check to see if he is in self carriage, try giving both reins forward for a stride or two, to see if he maintains his balance. If he falls on his forehand, then he is not seeking the rein, but seeking for you to carry him around the arena.
                    Awesome. Thank you

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I really do believe this is a topic that can't be explained over a forum.
                      It comes back to "feel". Just like in the other thread.

                      Hence the reason why some people are so good with youngsters and some people are not. Shoot, there are pros out there that are great with a 4* horse and crap with youngsters.

                      But to answer the OP question in a simple way.
                      When are they ready to reach into your hands?
                      The moment you get on them.

                      Personally, if they don't know how to use the bridle I don't get on. (unless we are talking a baby's very first rides which I do in a pony ride fashion)

                      I teach them to work into the bridle on the lunge. Then hop on and it's a golden opportunity.
                      http://kaboomeventing.com/
                      http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                      Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This is a matter of feel. When they are carrying themselves and you have a light contact, they are just there. The trick is to never allow yourself to pull. Even from an early stage you should ride them as you expect them to go later. Turns initially are accomplished by using your body as you plan to for the rest of your relationship, backed up by an an opening rein, the softest consists of rolling your hand so the palm is up and moving it away from your body. As the response to your leg and seat improves your opening rein diminishes, and becomes a quiet movement of your fingers.

                        Downward transitions are accomplished by stopping your body, and closing your fingers. If you have spent time longeing, your voice command should be delivered exactly as you taught on the longe. This is the beauty of spending your time longeing. It is never wasted. Ditto for upward transitions.
                        Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                        Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We merged the duplicate threads on this topic in separate discipline forums into one here in Off Course, which is visited by users from "across the board."

                          Thanks!
                          Mod 1

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Moderator 1 View Post
                            We merged the duplicate threads on this topic in separate discipline forums into one here in Off Course, which is visited by users from "across the board."

                            Thanks!
                            Mod 1
                            Thanks. I just wanted input from all areas.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Awesome insight. Thanks!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                fwiw, any kind of description that includes a certain weight ie: 2 lbs, 5 lbs etc - is wrong and will only hamper progress.

                                what helped me was to think of holding the front end of my horse up with my front line..... the contact is even and following and if they tip a bit towards the front weight wise i use my front line (not my hands!) and i also ask them to be more energetic with the hind leg -not faster, but more engaged... because it is the hind leg that is the issue - not the head/neck.

                                so on a greenie, ask them to go forward, in rhythm and balance, with even soft forward thinking *non looped* reins... when the horse starts to reach towards the bit - keep that elasticity and don't allow them to tip forward - use your front line and don't put your hands forward.

                                when the horse continues to work with elasticity as above you can allow them to reach out down towards the bit - small degrees at a time - but only for a few steps and again, use your front line to help them stay balanced over the haunch .

                                and i agree this is all about feel

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Can you just explain "front line" a little more?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Contact is one of the most misunderstood concepts there is. More damage is done by riders to young prospects by thinking that there horse must reach into their hands. There is a tendency in modern dressage riding to manipulate and manage every move the horse makes, for the sake of the "form" they are looking for, because it's "dressage".
                                    I say, ride your young horses outside, up and down terrain. Get out of the dressage court. Your horse can learn to handle and balance himself, by giving him a job and a reason to balance himself and use himself.
                                    Here is what Podhajsky has to say:
                                    "A perfect contact is possible only when the horse is in absolute balance, carries himself, and does not seek support from the reins."

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I want to be able to "flap the rein" and send a ripple down it to the bit, IF I am not pulling or holding him up. He and I are "talking" with bit and reins, but I am NOT MAKING his head stay up or tucked or anything. Nothing more tiring than holding that big head up!

                                      So having gotten horse beyond him needing to "feel" the reins constantly as a basic just-started horse, I need to be able to flap that rein anytime, to show I am NOT letting him hang on me or over-controlling him during the ride. He WILL reach a self-balance ONLY if I let him learn where it is! We can always polish him, refine his gaits and responses, once he learns he can't depend on me to hold him up.

                                      We then move on to "training the mouth" on him taking rein when it is given, head and mouth giving to my hands EASILY when I take up reins. If I pick up the rein buckle, I want him to drop head until he can feel the reins again. Nose may be rubbing the ground. He is SEEKING contact, so we can communicate. As I lift and shorten reins, he comes back to me, contact pressure stays the same on the reins.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by 2boys View Post
                                        Can you just explain "front line" a little more?
                                        Perhaps she means that by elevating and opening up her chest, and engaging her core muscles, she encourages the horse to pick himself up. This is a very effective way. Using your hands encourages them to hang.

                                        Watch the UL riders, they sit up, and carry themselves. But, they are not stiff.
                                        Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                        Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X