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Bill to ban NYC carriages in state committee - NEED YOUR HELP/UPDATE/Post#218

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  • Originally posted by Shine View Post
    If this bill does pass, what is the other high profile horses in the "city"? Police horses. I would think that they would be more at risk for injury.

    Getting a "dressing down" from a teller at a bank where we do a lot of business because "gasp" I have shoes on one of my horses and then handed me pamphlets for every animal activist group she belonged to. I can deal with those wackos on the internet, in real life not so much. She no longer works there (I was not the only one that happened to).

    I think once HSUS got their foot in the door, they will come in with guns a blazing.

    MF, e-mail sent!
    They already are attempting to shimmy into other facets. Case in point their "Responsible Breeders Council" http://www.humanesociety.org/news/pr...il-011813.html

    We all should beware and those that foolishly agree or align with them
    "When you drain the swamp.........don't wonder why you are now up to your ass in alligators."
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      When the RARAs came for the NYC carriage industry,
      I remained silent;
      I was not a NYC carriage owner - and besides, I didn't really like to see horses working there.

      When their groups succeeded in toppling urban carriage businesses like dominoes all across the country, using their victory in NYC as precedent,
      I remained silent.
      I did not have an urban carriage business.

      When they moved on to outlaw racing,
      I remained silent;
      I was not into racing.

      When they came for the breeders,
      I did not speak out;
      I didn't breed, and always got my horses from rescues.

      When they came for the eventers,
      I remained silent;
      I wasn't an eventer.

      When they came for me,
      there was no one left to speak out.
      VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
        They already are attempting to shimmy into other facets. Case in point their "Responsible Breeders Council" http://www.humanesociety.org/news/pr...il-011813.html

        We all should beware and those that foolishly agree or align with them
        "When you drain the swamp.........don't wonder why you are now up to your ass in alligators."
        Horses is not the only place they are after anyone that uses animals.
        Ask anyone in the dog world and you will hear plenty of stories about the HSUS push to pass all kinds of laws that sound good, but are affecting all, like the "puppy mill" laws, that in reality would affect all that breed dogs, making it so difficult as to make it impossible.

        The devil is in the details and unintended consequences, that in reality were foreseen in bringing those bills to vote.

        Tell me, why is the HSUS now suing the beef association, the pork board?
        Will horse groups as the USET, registries be next, The Jokey Club, the AQHA, AHA and others?
        Horse magazines?

        They are after publicity and the donations that brings just by their name.
        Who doesn't want to help animals and trusts someone with that kind of name?
        That money then helps them further their animal rights agendas, at the cost of true animal welfare and why not, they laugh all the way to the bank.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
          Basically she is equating their "cause" with human slavery. She see's herself as some sort of slavery liberator.

          I think simply stated the fact that SHE/THEY equate working horses with human slavery defines how mentally ill they are.

          well, I don't think THAT is the indicator that the cheese slipped off the cracker...but it certainly fuels the impression.

          I commented on something of hers via my FB profile....the one that had actually my name on it...she said it was a lovely made up one.... ah, no, lady, the one my Momma and the man from city hall bestowed on me.... her synapses are not firing in the right order for sure.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
            Horses is not the only place they are after anyone that uses animals.
            Ask anyone in the dog world and you will hear plenty of stories about the HSUS push to pass all kinds of laws that sound good, but are affecting all, like the "puppy mill" laws, that in reality would affect all that breed dogs, making it so difficult as to make it impossible.

            The devil is in the details and unintended consequences, that in reality were foreseen in bringing those bills to vote.

            Tell me, why is the HSUS now suing the beef association, the pork board?
            Will horse groups as the USET, registries be next, The Jokey Club, the AQHA, AHA and others?
            Horse magazines?

            They are after publicity and the donations that brings just by their name.
            Who doesn't want to help animals and trusts someone with that kind of name?
            That money then helps them further their animal rights agendas, at the cost of true animal welfare and why not, they laugh all the way to the bank.

            Does anybody got contacts to dog breeders? Maybe they could lend a hand as well? Westminster is around the corner!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
              Horses is not the only place they are after anyone that uses animals.
              Ask anyone in the dog world and you will hear plenty of stories about the HSUS push to pass all kinds of laws that sound good, but are affecting all, like the "puppy mill" laws, that in reality would affect all that breed dogs, making it so difficult as to make it impossible.

              The devil is in the details and unintended consequences, that in reality were foreseen in bringing those bills to vote.

              Tell me, why is the HSUS now suing the beef association, the pork board?
              Will horse groups as the USET, registries be next, The Jokey Club, the AQHA, AHA and others?
              Horse magazines?

              They are after publicity and the donations that brings just by their name.
              Who doesn't want to help animals and trusts someone with that kind of name?
              That money then helps them further their animal rights agendas, at the cost of true animal welfare and why not, they laugh all the way to the bank.
              I agree Bluey I am watching with much sadness and disdain the news Feeds on FOL about the legislation that just passed in Virginia involving hunting with dogs.
              ANYONE who thinks" it will not happen to me " is in for a rude rude awakening.
              "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                Does anybody got contacts to dog breeders? Maybe they could lend a hand as well? Westminster is around the corner!
                I do. We have a whole contingent of dog breeders who are supporting us here in NYC, and vice versa. There is a coalition of all kinds of animal people building against this onslaught, I have met alot of excellent people, and they give me hope.
                VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                Comment


                • Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
                  I do. We have a whole contingent of dog breeders who are supporting us here in NYC, and vice versa. There is a coalition of all kinds of animal people building against this onslaught, I have met alot of excellent people, and they give me hope.

                  Met the urban cowboys yet?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Shine View Post
                    So, sv, are you willing to hand your horse over to HSUS, PETA or some RARA because they don't approve of what you use your horse for? Just take a moment to think if this bill does pass and the tickle down effect that could happen.

                    This is not just the carriage industry at stake - it's the horse industry.

                    Ever hear of unintentional consequences?
                    There is absolutely NOTHING "unintentional" about any consequences that WILL arise if these bills pass and are signed by the Gov.
                    www.ayliprod.com
                    Equine Photography in the Northeast

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
                      Thank you. A pubic service announcement: if you disagree with the OP (or her minions) on this board, expect a dressing down, and it won't be nice. Additionally, these threads seem to bring conspiracy theorists out of the woodwork. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this board who disagree with carriage horses in NYC, but won't voice their opinion publically because you would expose yourself to all sorts of nastiness.

                      I agree with you. The "carriage industry" would be doing itself a favor if it fired the OP as its spokesperson.

                      I don't think carriage horses belong in NYC...there, I said it. And, I'm not some Bambi-loving animal rights activist. Far from it. I don't think banning carriage horses in NYC means that activist are coming after my horses, too. Provoking this type of hysteria in horse owners is just a red herring to try and protect a type of business that probably doesn't belong in the least horse-friendly city in the world.

                      You are wrong. This is a policy matter. It isn't about whether horses belong in NYC.

                      When legislators are lobbied to outlaw an existing industry, they want to know why. They need to understand why this practice is inherently different from all the other cities that have the same practice.

                      The reason NYCLASS has failed so far to ban horse drawn carriages in NYC is that they can't differentiate between how these horses live and any other horses. Policy makers aren't (all) idiots. They need to be able to tell the media that horses don't belong in NYC "Because NYC is different from the whole rest of the planet and here's why." Otherwise they look like fools.

                      Does that mean legislatures never pass laws that DON'T pass the smell test? Of course not, sometimes political will overcomes logic.

                      Here's the point: If this bill passes, then the argument that NYC horses aren't different from any other horses gets flipped on us. Do you comprehend, naysayers?

                      If pulling a carriage in NYC is inherently cruel, and Joe Schmoe Chairman of the Public Safety Committee in Your State also thinks eventing, with FAR more deaths, is cruel, then now it is on all of us to explain why eventing is so much more humane than keeping a horse in NYC.

                      Since, you know, eventers never die. Spectacularly. During international competition. And they get turned out every day, on grass even when it's January, and they have a balloon surrounding them keeping the temps near them always between 50 and 65 degrees. And they don't sweat, flop their ears over, cock a hind leg, spill their grain, slobber, lay in poop, stick their tongue out, drink out of puddles...or any of the other things that are THE ONLY PROOF of "abuse" in the NYC carriage industry.

                      Go ahead. Defend YOUR sport from this mentality.

                      WAKE UP. Love Eva or hate her, but look in the mirror first. And go on over to Carriage Horse Cruelty, Stopping NYC Horse Abuse, and No Walk in the Park on Facebook.

                      For the love of god read HUNDREDS of comments that all say "OMG! Those assholes! Horses belong in a pasture! Poor babies!" under a picture of a snoozing horse. Until you want to gouge out your eyeballs.

                      Post something rational on there and see how long it takes to get banned.

                      THEN come back and bitch about Eva.
                      \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

                      Comment


                      • Speaking of dogs, a hunting friend of ours was put out of the hunting dog business in a NY minute because CA banned that type of hunting. So, all those well bred dogs went....somewhere. They lost their value overnight, not to mention the training which was put into them.

                        Also, and I'm not picking on one person, only stating the obvious, my question wasn't ever answered and she seems to have quit this post.
                        GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MandyVA View Post
                          If pulling a carriage in NYC is inherently cruel, and Joe Schmoe Chairman of the Public Safety Committee in Your State also thinks eventing, with FAR more deaths, is cruel, then now it is on all of us to explain why eventing is so much more humane than keeping a horse in NYC.

                          Since, you know, eventers never die. Spectacularly. During international competition. And they get turned out every day, on grass even when it's January, and they have a balloon surrounding them keeping the temps near them always between 50 and 65 degrees. And they don't sweat, flop their ears over, cock a hind leg, spill their grain, slobber, lay in poop, stick their tongue out, drink out of puddles...or any of the other things that are THE ONLY PROOF of "abuse" in the NYC carriage industry.

                          Go ahead. Defend YOUR sport from this mentality.
                          Just for the record, Steve Nislick, co-founder of NYCLASS, is an eventer.

                          Yeah, wrap your mind around that and then tell me that this really has anything to do with the horses.
                          Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

                          "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

                          Comment


                          • haven't any of you heard this before... Guberment or PETA thinking

                            Originally posted by Appsolute View Post
                            I AGREE 100%! ALL of what you have said.

                            I have been staying away from the carriage threads, after I shared that I too think that the middle of the largest city in the US isn't the best place for horses to live - not a popular view point on these threads.

                            And screaming that PETA is going to come take my pleasure horse does not sway my opinion.
                            When the Nazis came for the communists, (Carriage Horses)
                            I remained silent;
                            I was not a communist. (Didn't have Carriage Horses)

                            When they locked up the social democrats, (Racing Horses)
                            I remained silent;
                            I was not a social democrat. (Didn't have Racing Horses)

                            When they came for the trade unionists, (Jumper Riders)
                            I did not speak out;
                            I was not a trade unionist. (Jumper Rider)

                            When they came for the Jews, (Horse Breeders)
                            I remained silent;
                            I wasn't a Jew. (Horse Breeder)

                            When they came for me, (Trail Rider)
                            there was no one left to speak out.

                            This can easily be converted to different horse groups.
                            " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers. Wood Routed Stall and Farm Signs
                            http://www.bluemooncustomsigns.com

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              Originally posted by grandprixjump View Post
                              When the Nazis came for the communists, (Carriage Horses)
                              I remained silent;
                              I was not a communist. (Didn't have Carriage Horses)

                              When they locked up the social democrats, (Racing Horses)
                              I remained silent;
                              I was not a social democrat. (Didn't have Racing Horses)

                              When they came for the trade unionists, (Jumper Riders)
                              I did not speak out;
                              I was not a trade unionist. (Jumper Rider)

                              When they came for the Jews, (Horse Breeders)
                              I remained silent;
                              I wasn't a Jew. (Horse Breeder)

                              When they came for me, (Trail Rider)
                              there was no one left to speak out.

                              This can easily be converted to different horse groups.
                              Thank you, Grandprix, so true, I posted something almost identical a few posts back. I hope you will take a moment to email or call on our behalf.
                              VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                              https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                              Comment


                              • Am I the only one offended by comparing the Holocaust to a bill against carriage horses?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                                  Am I the only one offended by comparing the Holocaust to a bill against carriage horses?
                                  I think this is not about the Holocaust itself, but comparing as per the slippery slope, that the Holocaust was but a part of it.
                                  Hitler's advances to absolute power is a perfect example of this.
                                  If those that have and use animals, here horses, don't stand up together to those that attack us, together we will fail.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                    I think this is not about the Holocaust itself, but comparing as per the slippery slope, that the Holocaust was but a part of it.
                                    Hitler's advances to absolute power is a perfect example of this.
                                    If those that have and use animals, here horses, don't stand up together to those that attack us, together we will fail.
                                    Only 7 pages for Godwin's Law to appear.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                                      Am I the only one offended by comparing the Holocaust to a bill against carriage horses?
                                      See Laura its statements like yours that frost my cap. You take issue with a piece of literature recomposed to reflect a current situation(btw people do it all the time) ....but its perfectly OK apparently at least OK enough that you didn't bother to make a public post defaming that E.Forel and her radial friends compare carriage horses/owners to slaves/slave owners daily.

                                      "
                                      • Chaz Neestrop Carriage Horse Cruelty, you just made the argument every other person does when they want to create a prohibition of anything. Funny thing is, prohibitions never seem to work well, now do they?
                                        January 23 at 7:15am







                                      • Carriage Horse Cruelty Chaz Neestrop - we beg to differ. Prohibitions are a time honored tradition in America. Prohibitions against slavery, child labor and animal cruelty. We hope one day to add the prohibition to enslave and exploit horses to that list. Chaz, why are you here, if you do not believe that carriage horses should be outlawed? This page is a community for like minded individuals and groups who are opposed to Carriage Horse Cruelty. Why are you here?
                                        January 23 at 7:26am · 4






                                      Stop trying to pick the fly shit out of the pepper. One doesn't get a reprieve because you don't have a personal issue with them.
                                      "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                                        Only 7 pages for Godwin's Law to appear.
                                        ah, come on, it's not like the other side has not used Adolf the Unnecessary on their behalf. However the point isn't who done it first, but what is playing out here.
                                        Evil happens when good people stand aside and say nothing.

                                        But sure. jump on the wrong point.

                                        Comment


                                        • But I don't read the other side or your side, for that matter unless it's a post here on COTH, and they're not posting here on COTH at the moment. I would make the same argument with them if they were posting on COTH.

                                          I've tried to point out, in the past, that playing the game their way doesn't really help the carriage horse cause. The less people you offend the better. But clearly you all have chosen the path.

                                          But I will call out offensive posts on COTH. If you don't like it, don't post on COTH.

                                          Alagirl, I wouldn't call wanting to eliminate carriage horses from city streets evil. I don't agree with the anti-carriage people, but I reserve the word evil for genocide, murderers, pedophiles, rapists, etc.

                                          Comment

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