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Bill to ban NYC carriages in state committee - NEED YOUR HELP/UPDATE/Post#218

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  • Originally posted by oldpony66 View Post

    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on my interpretation. Basically, you can continue to own the horse, but you have to keep it as a "companion animal"? Or do you actually have to cease ownership?
    It could be read either way.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
      See how easy that was SV. Its ok that you don't agree

      For reference sake Atlanta is one of the cities targeted. http://www.horseswithoutcarriages.org/index.shtml

      There is a anti group just for Atlanta.

      The quote from HWCI
      "Horses Without Carriages International is a coalition of many diverse organizations and individuals throughout the world with the common goal of exposing the injustice, cruelty, and inhumanity in the urban horse-drawn carriage tourist trade.

      A horse should not be forced to work between the shafts of his carriage for many hours per day, with a metal bit in his mouth, a diaper tied to his rear, blinders blocking his view, ear plugs, and sometimes a muzzle.

      We advocate for the right of these horses to live free according to their own terms and not to be enslaved."

      On their supporters list "PETA, HSUS"


      I guess those who think horses shouldn't be working pulling carriages also think they shouldn't be used for farm work either??

      Comment


      • And maybe most of them are really just trying to get the land so build a parking garage or whatever, but now that I'm thinking more about it... if they're not really out to get the rest of our horses then explain this logic - if they're NOT out to get our horses and are only trying to get horses out of the city, then why is it not OK for these carriage horses to "work" somewhere other than NYC?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by MandyVA View Post
          It could be read either way.
          Well that makes the bill even more splendid, doesn't it.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tidy wabbit View Post
            Those horses have more to fear from the slaughter proponents than they do from the government. How many acres of federal land do you rent for cheap fees out there, anyway?

            And all that talk about the government taking away rights? That is use by some people as an excuse for everything. Try to scare people by saying the government is coming to take away their animals and their rights to.....what? To do whatever they want to with animals? The anarchists still live in those groups who think that there should be no government "interference" in anything. Government regulation is necessary to prevent abuse of animals. As it is necessary to prevent abuse of humans. Without rules and regulations, there will be more incidents like that of numerous cothers who have starved their animals.
            People who want to live without rules and regulations need to go start their own country somewhere far away. Or go join those white supremacist groups in Idaho and make you own license plates.
            You did go off on a tangent, did you?

            Who is the alarmist here?
            What do my horses out in my pasture and animal rights extremists working to eliminate domestic animals have to do with any of that you took off with there?:confused?

            As for abuse and regulations, that are requirements for minimum standards.
            Those that have animals are well aware of any regulations and follow standards that leave those of regulations in the dust.

            Abuse is another card animal rights extremist as you seem to use to want to eliminate ALL uses of animals.
            No, owning animals doesn't has anything to do with abuse itself.

            SOME abusers happen to own animals and abuse animals, but that is because they are abusers and abuse any and all around them.
            Because some are abusers and abuse animals you now think ALL should give up animals?
            The old throwing away the baby with the bathwater, irrational thinking.

            As for the rest of your tirade, give me a break.
            If you don't like it here, maybe you ought to consider starting your own country where you can declare that owning domestic animals is now illegal and persecute and kill any person that may have one, if that makes you happy.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oldpony66 View Post
              I still feel like some people are missing the point. This is not directed at any one poster, so please, I'm not attacking anyone.

              The bill, as I understand it, if it passes means that the horses MUST be retired. As in, if I owned a NYC carriage horse today, but they were banned next month, I could not take my carriage horse and 1) move my business to another location, 2) sell my horse to anyone to use as a carriage horse, 3) drive my own horse around my own neighborhood or even, I suppose, put a bridle on it and hack around the farm bareback. Of course, I wonder how on earth they would ever really follow me around to know if I was doing that.

              Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on my interpretation. Basically, you can continue to own the horse, but you have to keep it as a "companion animal"? Or do you actually have to cease ownership?
              Yes.
              I do believe the bill says the owner 'shall' sell or donate....that means yeah, you lose.

              Anyway, in what universe is that logical? Or legal? From a business standpoint that would be like banning all the hotdog carts in the city but instead of telling the folks just to take their business elsewhere, essentially confiscating the carts and putting them in a storage facility, or saying you can keep the carts but you can't use them ... ANYWHERE! Not even at your house! bwahhahaha!!! I know the analogy is weak because we're talking about living, breathing creatures but what I'm looking at is the legal aspect of what the bill is trying to do.

              If NYC wants the carriages gone, they could do it without legistlation, no? But NYC doesn't want them gone. Tourists still enjoy the rides, otherwise the industry wouldn't survive. But the wording on the bill about the retirement and ownership is a disaster, and that's why - after I get done with my own battle here in PA with disasterous issues regarding state education budgets that more directly affect me - I will help you out michaleenflynn - I'll let your NY people know that they're idiots if they let a bill pass with wording in it like that. I won't word it quite like that, don't worry.
              Originally posted by BigMama1
              Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
              GNU Terry Prachett

              Comment


              • I sent an e-mail to all as well.

                Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
                I'd like to be able to gauge how many COTHers are weighing in -- please, if you call or email any of the legislators, post here or PM me. Thank you so much.
                The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                H. Cate

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  Originally posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
                  I sent an e-mail to all as well.
                  Thank you, much appreciated, JGH!
                  VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                  Comment


                  • This post/quote is from the totally unrelated topic /thread started by Michaleenflynn. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...-in-action-WOW

                    Stolen just had to mosey over and make a comment, and you wonder why people say what they do about you ??

                    Originally posted by stolen virtue View Post
                    Two threads started by the same person.......gee wonder why......
                    Seriously trade mark compulsive
                    Last edited by Lynnwood; Feb. 10, 2013, 01:34 AM.
                    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
                      This post/quote is from the totally unrelated topic /thread started by Michaleenflynn. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...-in-action-WOW

                      Stolen just had to mosey over and make a comment, and you wonder why people say what they do about you ??



                      Seriously trade mark compulsive
                      shush Minion!
                      Originally posted by BigMama1
                      Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                      GNU Terry Prachett

                      Comment


                      • I've found it's better to ignore than call out...because you sidetrack your message.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                          I've found it's better to ignore than call out...because you sidetrack your message.
                          Exactly, also called pick your battles.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                            shush Minion!
                            You are not my puppet master .... only the one whos name can't be typed can call me MINION!
                            Last edited by Lynnwood; Feb. 10, 2013, 11:30 AM.
                            "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                              I've found it's better to ignore than call out...because you sidetrack your message.
                              I agree Laura call it a moment of "you've got to be kidding me" frustration.

                              Post 13 of this thread, and then the resulting off topic debate for 13 pages on weather we are meanie heads ..finally back on track and then the very next NOT even carriage related post McFlynn makes and we are right back to the same square.

                              I can say ^^^ using SV as an example THAT is the very nonsense minus the vulgarity , physical assault and pervasiveness of what the industry deals with daily.
                              "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
                                I agree Laura call it a moment of "you've got to be kidding me" frustration.

                                Post 13 of this thread, and then the resulting off topic debate for 13 pages on weather we are meanie heads ..finally back on track and then the very next NOT even carriage related post McFlynn makes and we are right back to the same square.

                                I can say ^^^ using SV as an example THAT is the very nonsense minus the vulgarity , physical assault and pervasiveness of what the industry deals with daily.
                                I know, in the face of the perpetual harassment carriage drivers have to withstand every day for hours on end, how about taking a page of the old West coach lines and put a shotgun driver up there, with a video camera in place of a real shotgun, watching for bandits of the animal rights persuasion?
                                Modern warfare for when those carriages are attacked.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                  I know, in the face of the perpetual harassment carriage drivers have to withstand every day for hours on end, how about taking a page of the old West coach lines and put a shotgun driver up there, with a video camera in place of a real shotgun, watching for bandits of the animal rights persuasion?
                                  Modern warfare for when those carriages are attacked.
                                  If you know 63 free from 8-3am John Waynes who don't mind no pay(unless its in carrots) send them Eva's way !
                                  "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                    I know, in the face of the perpetual harassment carriage drivers have to withstand every day for hours on end, how about taking a page of the old West coach lines and put a shotgun driver up there, with a video camera in place of a real shotgun, watching for bandits of the animal rights persuasion?
                                    Modern warfare for when those carriages are attacked.

                                    well the word is they don't act quiet ass crazy when the cameras are out.

                                    I would love to rig a couple of carriages with hidden cameras...
                                    Originally posted by BigMama1
                                    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                    GNU Terry Prachett

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                      well the word is they don't act quiet ass crazy when the cameras are out.

                                      I would love to rig a couple of carriages with hidden cameras...
                                      The carriage horse version of Candid Camera. Can you imagine besides the Antis what else those cameras would catch in NYC ;p
                                      "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                        I would love to rig a couple of carriages with hidden cameras...
                                        Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
                                        The carriage horse version of Candid Camera. Can you imagine besides the Antis what else those cameras would catch in NYC ;p
                                        Just don't point them back toward the passengers on the night shift
                                        VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
                                          I agree Laura call it a moment of "you've got to be kidding me" frustration.

                                          Post 13 of this thread, and then the resulting off topic debate for 13 pages on weather we are meanie heads ..finally back on track and then the very next NOT even carriage related post McFlynn makes and we are right back to the same square.

                                          I can say ^^^ using SV as an example THAT is the very nonsense minus the vulgarity , physical assault and pervasiveness of what the industry deals with daily.
                                          So if that was a moment of "you've got to be kidding me," what was this? Let. It. Go.

                                          Comment

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