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Bill to ban NYC carriages in state committee - NEED YOUR HELP/UPDATE/Post#218

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  • Original Poster

    Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
    I already said I'm not a fan of carriage horses in large cities...and that I believe taking horses from owners without compensation is almost certainly unconstitutional...but since I'm not a constitutional scholar, I can't be sure.

    Why should I support something that I think would be better restricted to a park?
    What's better about the Park?
    Same asphalt, same traffic.
    And how are we supposed to get to our stables?
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

    Comment


    • Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
      What's better about the Park?
      Same asphalt, same traffic.
      And how are we supposed to get to our stables?
      Fly, like any good old unicorn...no wait, that's Pegasus....
      Originally posted by BigMama1
      Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
      GNU Terry Prachett

      Comment


      • Eva, just to let you know, I sent an email in your favor.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
          Let's just say I evolved. I was in the pro-carriage group in the beginning...I even posted quite a bit on the anti-carriage facebook pages. But I evolved. I'm not so sure they belong on city streets,
          .
          But they are not your horses, and you have no facts to back up that opinion.
          VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

          https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

          Comment


          • Originally posted by stolen virtue View Post
            I think that is the point: How appropriate is it to have horses in a completely urban environment. Many cities regulate businesses and what kinds of businesses are allowed in specific areas in their zoning regulations. Savannah GA might be a good city to accommodate the carriage horse industry but NYC, that business just doesn't belong in such an urban environment.
            I feel NASCAR is foolish and an inappropriate use of resources.
            You know what, I don't go tell them they can't run car races because I don't think it is good to do so.

            What do you and others like you have to say about it, when it really is none of your business what others do?

            By the way, those carriage horses already have been some of the most regulated ones around, have inspections and logs to keep and all kinds of supervision, more than most any other anyone does with their horses.

            When we changed from the land of the free, everyone free to do what they want, as long as it is legal, to everyone is free to judge others and demand they live by their very strange rules and if not I will be free to harass them into the ground.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              Originally posted by cheval convert View Post
              Eva, just to let you know, I sent an email in your favor.
              Thank you so much, Cheval, much appreciated.

              I think I will update the title of this thread to try and get it back on track.
              VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

              https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                Fly, like any good old unicorn...no wait, that's Pegasus....
                I am sure someone would say that flying is dangerous!
                VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                  No, and that's based solely on your behavior and that of your followers on COTH.
                  “The time is always right to do the right thing.”
                  ― Martin Luther King Jr.
                  VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
                    I am sure someone would say that flying is dangerous!
                    Only if you make crash landing a habit.

                    Comment


                    • See how easy that was SV. Its ok that you don't agree

                      For reference sake Atlanta is one of the cities targeted. http://www.horseswithoutcarriages.org/index.shtml

                      There is a anti group just for Atlanta.

                      The quote from HWCI
                      "Horses Without Carriages International is a coalition of many diverse organizations and individuals throughout the world with the common goal of exposing the injustice, cruelty, and inhumanity in the urban horse-drawn carriage tourist trade.

                      A horse should not be forced to work between the shafts of his carriage for many hours per day, with a metal bit in his mouth, a diaper tied to his rear, blinders blocking his view, ear plugs, and sometimes a muzzle.

                      We advocate for the right of these horses to live free according to their own terms and not to be enslaved."

                      On their supporters list "PETA, HSUS"
                      "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        BTW, for those who are reading along....ask Blue Star Equiculture which horses among their herd of 30+ are the most well-adjusted, have the best ground manners, are the most friendly, are vice-free, and just all-around good horses -- everyone, including people who only visit, will tell you that HANDS DOWN they are the retired NYC carriage horses.

                        We must be doing SOMETHING right.
                        VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                          I feel NASCAR is foolish and an inappropriate use of resources.
                          You know what, I don't go tell them they can't run car races because I don't think it is good to do so.

                          What do you and others like you have to say about it, when it really is none of your business what others do?

                          By the way, those carriage horses already have been some of the most regulated ones around, have inspections and logs to keep and all kinds of supervision, more than most any other anyone does with their horses.

                          When we changed from the land of the free, everyone free to do what they want, as long as it is legal, to everyone is free to judge others and demand they live by their very strange rules and if not I will be free to harass them into the ground.
                          But Bluey, we do have zoning regulations, even in Texas. Businesses are not allowed to operate without being in compliance with local regulations. Porn shops are not allowed in many areas of a city, heavy industrial manufacturing, metal plating businesses are not allowed in many cities.

                          People are not free to operate any business they choose where ever they want. That is the reality. I don't know of any city that does not have zoning regulations and in California they are required. Which means that a plating operation cannot build a facility next to your home, school or hospital.

                          Comment


                          • Wow, some people really know how to hold a grudge.

                            There are groups targeting Sacramento, Charleston, Denver, St. Louis, Chicago, hell there is even an effort to ban horse drawn carriages in DC. And we don't even have carriages in DC.

                            So where is it ok to allow carriages? Just whichever place there isn't a group set up yet to ban it?
                            \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

                            Comment


                            • Where it is appropriate. Have you pro-carriage people never been a part of your local government ? Understanding how businesses interact and deal with local regulations may help you understand "So where is it OK to allow carriages".

                              Read up and understand the local regulations.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by stolen virtue View Post
                                Where it is appropriate. Have you pro-carriage people never been a part of your local government ? Understanding how businesses interact and deal with local regulations may help you understand "So where is it OK to allow carriages".

                                Read up and understand the local regulations.



                                you certainly ARE priceless....

                                It's not their first rodeo....and with 4 agencies throwing regulations at them, I am pretty sure they have learned all of them by heart.

                                the vitriol got shot down, trying it with condescension now....
                                Originally posted by BigMama1
                                Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                GNU Terry Prachett

                                Comment


                                • Thank you captain condesending. I'm a lawyer, I'm intimately familiar with regulations.

                                  The topic at hand is a total ban. And the antis have made it very clear that no amount of regulation will make them happy. The carriage operators are already complying with NYC laws and code that specify the streets, hours, and den temperatures at which they can operate.

                                  "Where appropriate" is going to be "nowhere" if we all keep sitting around letting those who know the least about horses attempt to legislate where and how we can ride or drive them.
                                  \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                    Fly, like any good old unicorn...no wait, that's Pegasus....
                                    Oh, and the New Yorkers complain about pigeons flying over and pooping....what would they think of a flying horse....LOL
                                    Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                                    Bernard M. Baruch

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      I'd like to get this thread back on track.

                                      This is a post which was put up today.

                                      Now, Forel knows that we don't send our horses to slaughter, but she rings that bell every chance she gets.

                                      Notice the language she uses here:


                                      "Stevie, the hoof numbers can be sanded off. easily. It sounds to me like you will want to brush up "kill buyers," who frequent auctions, such as the one at New Holland, Pa., and buy horses for next to nothing, then transport them in double-decker trailers to slaughterhouses. You need to look up: Animals' Angels, KaufmanZoning.net, Equine Welfare Alliance, Canadian Horse Defence Coalition, etc. There is nothing in current NYC law to prevent carriage horses from ending up at slaughterhouses. This bill would close that loophole"
                                      **********************************************
                                      So there it is - privately owned horses to go to "government-approved homes", by law, and never. allowed. to. work. again, under the guise of "keeping them from being sent to slaughter."

                                      I truly cannot understand how any horse owner could not be outraged at this.
                                      VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Amwrider View Post
                                        Oh, and the New Yorkers complain about pigeons flying over and pooping....what would they think of a flying horse....LOL
                                        "

                                        "what the fuuu..."

                                        especially being hit by the droppings...
                                        Originally posted by BigMama1
                                        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                        GNU Terry Prachett

                                        Comment


                                        • So NY is trying to ban carriage horses in GA ? This would not be the first time I had to disagree with a lawyer. I don't think NY can dictate what the zoning allows in GA. Oh but I'm still being called names "Captain Condesending" Nice.

                                          Comment

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