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Another post on pay

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  • Another post on pay

    I'm looking at an instruction/riding job and I know that I will be negotiating my pay. I will not receive housing (which is pricey in said location) or board.
    I was wondering if it is normal to ask for
    a.) a fee per lesson/ride
    b.) pay by the hour
    c.) a flat rate
    As a past groom I've been paid a flat rate, regardless of time worked. I was wondering what I should be negotiating for. I think so far I will be asking for minimum wage, around 7.25-7.50 and hour. But if so, is it normal to fill out a time sheet or is it just said that "blank" hours will be worked per day? I've instructed as a working student (unpaid) and at camps (flat rate). This would be at a regular lesson/boarding barn.

    Complicated question but I'd love to hear anyone's ideas

  • #2
    What area of the country?


    • Original Poster

      New Orleans


      • #4
        Are you going to be grooming and tacking up horses, turnouts, feeding or doing other chores? If so I would ask for a base salary plus so much per lesson.

        If you are truly only instructing and that is all you have to do then pay per lesson would be appropriate.

        Make sure you hammer out the details of employee/independent contractor before you take the job. In the first scenario I laid out you should be paid as an employee, you employer should take out taxes, have workmens comp insurance, and include you on the barn's liability insurance policy. In the second scenario you might be paid as an independent contractor, in which case you need to realize that at the end of the year you will have taxes to pay and you need to carry your own liability insurance.


        • #5
          When I did that, way back in the dark ages, I was paid a flat day rate plus a percentage of the lessons. I wasn't paid separately for riding because I was exercising, not training.
          You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.


          • #6
            Depends heavily on your qualifications (there are working students/camps, and then there are working students and camps), your experience, your age, the specific tasks you are doing each day, what the facility is getting paid for said lessons, etc. Also, what exactly do you mean by a "regular lesson/boarding barn?" Honestly that tells me almost nothing Are you going to be responsible for having your own liability insurance? Is this supposed to be a full time position? There are LOTS of factors that would affect what sort of pay you should expect.
            "Sometimes the fear won't go away... so you just have to do it afraid."

            Trolls be trollin'! -DH


            • Original Poster

              It would be a full time position. A regular lesson.boarding barn= middle of the line quality. Not big time but not dinky either. Facilities I've heard are nice. My experience; used to ride the 3'6" eq and hunters but showed myself very little. Working student for several well-known trainers in the Southeast. LOTS of time spent at shows grooming, managing and occasionally warming up and showing students in small/mediums, short and long stirrup, all on the A and AA circuit. I haven't talked about insurance yet but I'm assuming that they will take care of that, but I'll be sure to ask. The camps I worked at were very beginner/advanced beginner but I had total control over what was being taught/lesson plans. I also taught barn management and horse health.

              I'm thinking that the pay will be a flat rate, if they're covering insurance. The job doesn't really seem like an independent job. I will be taking directions from the owner and trainer.

              The riding will vary I think from just hacking or actually training and re-schooling lesson horses.


              • Original Poster

                oh forgot to add that it will be mainly instructing and riding with a little care of tack, maybe feeding occasionally...


                • #9
                  Horse people almost always try to "cheat" employees. There is no such thing as a "flat rate" and you should do time cards. You won't qualify as an independent contractor unless you can pass all the equipment and control tests (your horses, your schedule, your program) I can't figure out how they get away with this but have been told they make some kind of ag exemption?

                  Don't work in a dangerous environment unless you are covered by workman's comp and/or health insurance. You know the weird crap that happens with horses and fences and tractors.

                  You can do a minimum wage and a per lesson "bonus" or "bump".

                  I know we would all do these jobs for free, but if you forgot your trust fund or rich husband, try to be a little practical.


                  • Original Poster

                    Thanks Hidden Acres. I will definitely be discussing insurance. I'm 90% sure they have health insurance included but I'm not sure about workman's comp. This is a really stupid question, forgive me, I'm new to this "real job" situation... but what is the difference between workman's comp and health insurance. I'm assuming health insurance covers outside ailments like dr.'s appointments or getting the flu, while workman's comp covers onsite injuries like breaking a bone from a fall?

                    And yes I did forget my trust fund and haven't planned on marrying anytime soon

                    In the ideal situation I'd have a rate for lessons and a flat rate for hours worked outside of lessons but I'm going to assume that won't work for them. I am also always amazed with how much the horse industry tries to get away with....


                    • #11
                      What happened to the original thread about pay?
                      You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.


                      • #12
                        Hahahaha!!!! You better make sure that you are added to their commercial liability insurance----if you are old enough. My policy requires that instructors be 25+. Are they requiring you to carry your own comm liability ins also? You need to get everything in writing. Everything. What your "job description is/what is expected from you, etc. Before you start is the time to ask questions and do this. BTW, how old are you?


                        • Original Poster

                          Originally posted by Midge View Post
                          What happened to the original thread about pay?
                          I figured that talking about insurance was talking about pay. It is a form of compensation in my book.

                          I'm 22, only saying that as it pertains to liability insurance. I don't want to be poked fun at simply because I'm younger as that seems to happen a lot on this forum....

                          Definitely asking a load of question before the job. On this forum is the starting point about what questions to ask and get general info on what is expected.


                          • #14
                            I would do a flat rate per lesson. I have always charged per lesson. More if it is private, less if it is semi private or group. Normally 30 min or 1 hr lessons. You could also get a discount if you buy a block of 4
                            Draumr Hesta Farm
                            "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                            Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm


                            • #15
                              Pay + Benefits= Actual Compensation. So insurance and/or Work Comp coverage matters. A lot.


                              • #16
                                make sure you get everything in writing, no matter what gets decided. and get it signed!!!
                                Teaching Horseback Riding Lessons: A Practical Training Manual for Instructors

                                Stop Wasting Hay and Extend Consumption Time With Round Bale Hay Nets!!


                                • #17
                                  My understanding is that workmans comp is for accidents on the job. It would cover your doctor, hospital bills and some salarylost if you can't go back to work. It is a bit different in every state and states set the laws for what kind of coverage must be provided. Health insurance is for regular medical care plus medical tests,xrays etc that you use in your regular life. Very few stables offer health insurance, at least in the southeast TX area.


                                  • #18
                                    have looked at other avenues of employment other than what is assumed to be a very low paying, high risk entry level position that is historically one that is mistreated?

                                    The Audubon Zoo is looking for a hoofed animal livestock keeper...pay and benefits should be better.... and regular hours that will not encroach into your personal life



                                    • #19
                                      I think there is a 2nd part to your question to consider. Part 1--how much and how should I be paid? Part 2--Can I survive on that? If not, does the job allow me the flexibility to work a 2nd job, and am I willing to do that?

                                      If you're looking at minimum wage in an area with high cost housing, it's going to be very, very, tough. You mention they're not providing board, so I assume along with your expenses, you're going to have a horse to support. $7.50 per hour times 40 hours a week = $300 per week. $1200 per month, before taxes. So figure $1000 a month. Can you pay for a safe place to live, vehicle maintenance and gas, food, any out-of-pocket medical costs, and utilities out of that? I couldn't, and that doesn't even consider horse costs.

                                      You sound like an on-the-ball young woman to me. You're asking good questions. Keep asking them so you can make the best possible decision with as much information as possible.


                                      • #20
                                        @clanter.. That would be a very cool job. I wonder what it pays
                                        Draumr Hesta Farm
                                        "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                                        Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm