• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Local CL-er wants to try horse meat: What say you?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
    color me curious: But currently there is no commercial slaughter of horses in the US, and if I am not mistaken you may not sell meat - horse or other - that has not been inspected...

    soooo, the CL poster could be somebody trying to frame the evil horse eaters?

    It's not hard to find horsemeat on the net, to have it shipped to your house!
    Hmm. The Headline to the CL ad mentioned "it's been legal since 2009." I assume, then, that the CL poster knew people would have qualms but was on the up-and-up.

    Or maybe it was a big trap, a sting(!), if you will, perpetrated in the sleepy Willamette Valley.

    I didn't know you could get it shipped like Kobe steak or Lobsters or St. Louis BBQ or whatever. Good point.
    Last edited by mvp; Jan. 25, 2013, 11:06 PM.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by HungarianHippo View Post
      OP, sorry, my troll suspicion wasn't directed at you at all. Some of the subsequent comments seemed purposely outrageous/tongue in cheek.
      Would be interesting to hear if the CLer responds to your email.
      No worries. I never post Lame CL ads, but this one was unusual and HR, so I thought it would be good COTH reading material.

      The CL person hasn't responded to my e-mail as yet. I'll let you guys know if he/she does.
      The armchair saddler
      Politically Pro-Cat

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
        European eaters don't just frown at eating horsemeat that is from horses given banned substances. The meds we use are BANNED in animals for food.
        Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
        Actually they do just frown on it because they are eating our horses banned medications and all every day of the week. Supposedly that will change this year but is very much happening now.
        Thanks for the clarification.

        There are plenty of "homebody" horses here who probably don't get lots more than vaccinations and worming. I wish I had thought to advise the person to steer clear of any race horses (asking about a lip tattoo so as not to diss all Thoroughbreds). Racers probably have the most/most exotic/most recent cocktails of drugs.

        I didn't explain what bute is, how prevalent it is and that it is known to cause leukemia in humans. But you might have to eat a lot of horse meat for that to be a worry. Otherwise, y'all are correct about our usual meat animals being given plenty of drugs.
        The armchair saddler
        Politically Pro-Cat

        Comment


        • #24
          Go to Ireland and visit Shergar King?
          It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by mvp View Post
            Thanks for the clarification.

            There are plenty of "homebody" horses here who probably don't get lots more than vaccinations and worming. I wish I had thought to advise the person to steer clear of any race horses (asking about a lip tattoo so as not to diss all Thoroughbreds). Racers probably have the most/most exotic/most recent cocktails of drugs.

            I didn't explain what bute is, how prevalent it is and that it is known to cause leukemia in humans. But you might have to eat a lot of horse meat for that to be a worry. Otherwise, y'all are correct about our usual meat animals being given plenty of drugs.
            Bless you, but I think this person is having a good laugh about the responses he is getting.
            I am sure his inbox is full with the usual 'how dare you' and why don't you eat puppies kind of stuff.

            I am thinking it is is safe to assume, if somebody bothered enough to throw Trigger in the deep freeze, they made sure he didn't have all that newfangled stuff.
            Originally posted by BigMama1
            Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
            GNU Terry Prachett

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
              Bless you, but I think this person is having a good laugh about the responses he is getting.
              I am sure his inbox is full with the usual 'how dare you' and why don't you eat puppies kind of stuff.

              I am thinking it is is safe to assume, if somebody bothered enough to throw Trigger in the deep freeze, they made sure he didn't have all that newfangled stuff.
              Haha... didn't even think that the CL-er was yanking the chain of the "Farm & Garden" crowd. Could be!

              Well, no use in having a jokester die of leukemia because he didn't know about bute and his homies double-dog dared him to mess with people but eat any horse meat that showed up.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

              Comment


              • #27
                Someone mentioned meat in the US being inspected, etc.

                If you only realized what passes and ends up on the supermarket freezers on a daily basis...

                McCancer burgers, anyone? This is why we stand on our high horse and only buy meat from local farmers we know & trust. As unpalatable as horse meat sounds to me, the stuff we Americans put in our bodies under the guise of consumable food...

                Comment


                • #28
                  If you're buying directly from a local farmer, is the meat USDA inspected? I wouldn't think a private farmer direct to consumer transaction would be regulated at all. Regardless of the type of meat. No federal jurisdiction there.
                  \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Finzean View Post
                    Someone mentioned meat in the US being inspected, etc.

                    If you only realized what passes and ends up on the supermarket freezers on a daily basis...

                    McCancer burgers, anyone? This is why we stand on our high horse and only buy meat from local farmers we know & trust. As unpalatable as horse meat sounds to me, the stuff we Americans put in our bodies under the guise of consumable food...
                    Ah, the horse meat was in IRELAND AND ENGLAND.

                    and gosh, hyperbole much?

                    yes, the FDA allows for so much foreign matter in your food.
                    and regulations are broken.

                    However, being the way things are I am pretty sure if I had a pound of Trigger in the freezer, I would not sell it to some unknown yahoo over CL.
                    Originally posted by BigMama1
                    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                    GNU Terry Prachett

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I wonder what our local butcher shop would say or how they'd react if we brought in a horse carcass for cut and wrap? They do a booming business of processing wild game... hmm...

                      I'm being quite serious when I say that I have no problem with the development of a regulated, humanely slaughtered horse meat industry in this country. I purchase my beef and pork from friends who raise them locally--not because I'm freaked out, but because I like how they treat their livestock. I am fine with the idea that other countries and cultures source their protein from animals we here in America consider taboo. I sincerely wish that all animals raised for slaughter would be treated with humane respect from birth to death, but we certainly aren't there yet.

                      And, having seen the pictures of the horses being dumped at the auctions here in the PNW, something needs to be done about the vast numbers being bred and discarded by humans.
                      Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by mvp View Post
                        Thanks for the clarification.

                        There are plenty of "homebody" horses here who probably don't get lots more than vaccinations and worming. I wish I had thought to advise the person to steer clear of any race horses (asking about a lip tattoo so as not to diss all Thoroughbreds). Racers probably have the most/most exotic/most recent cocktails of drugs.
                        I wouldn't say that. If we were playing 'eat the horse meat' bingo and the choice was between a racehorse and a big-ticket show hunter you might be safer eating the racehorse because he probably got hormones, Lasix, and bute, while who knows what snake oil the hunter's on because it's only against USEF rules if you get caught and don't have a good lawyer when you are....

                        My guess about a butcher/deer processor would be they'd charge you more, unless they're used to doing moose! That's a big chunk of meat.
                        Author Page
                        Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                        Steampunk Sweethearts

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I'm referring less to foreign matter...we live in farm world, foreign matter is a just the way it is sometimes. I'm more referring to the way in which cattle are kept in feed lots, stressed and crammed full of grain living a digestive life for which they are not designed. I've personally been to feed lots and first hand observed the "life" these poor animals endure until they are slaughtered. Humane slaughter and foreign matter is only part of the equation for me & my family. As far as Ireland & England....I'm referring specifically to the States and what we Americans depend upon our government to deem "safe" for us to eat. We are not food nazis but we are educated about our food web and are not in the least disconnected as to how our food (all of it) reaches us.

                          Not only do I know the farmers who raise our beef, chicken, pork, and lamb, but I see the animals on those farms and I know the slaughter house that processes the animals. The point I'm making is that while horse meat is unpalatable to me, personally, I can't imagine it is any worse than some of the stuff we check off as okay to consume in the US.

                          Written from atop the High Horse where I shall stay...God forbid someone should slaughter my horse out from under me.

                          Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                          Ah, the horse meat was in IRELAND AND ENGLAND.

                          and gosh, hyperbole much?

                          yes, the FDA allows for so much foreign matter in your food.
                          and regulations are broken.

                          However, being the way things are I am pretty sure if I had a pound of Trigger in the freezer, I would not sell it to some unknown yahoo over CL.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                            I wouldn't say that. If we were playing 'eat the horse meat' bingo and the choice was between a racehorse and a big-ticket show hunter you might be safer eating the racehorse because he probably got hormones, Lasix, and bute, while who knows what snake oil the hunter's on because it's only against USEF rules if you get caught and don't have a good lawyer when you are....
                            Well first we'd need to have the Worth Drugging Show Hunter species here in the Willamette Valley. They do exist, but they are endangered. Truth be told, same for race horses, I'd say.

                            Having personally gotten dirty in a necropsy room, and then spoken to the folks at the wildlife safari, I can tell you that slicing up a whole horse is not minor task.

                            That might be the issue that stops the CL-er from completing the mission. I think there are private butchers to be found for hunters around here, but to find the person with the "deadman walking" horse who will also coordinate with the CL-er... that might be a tall order.

                            All in all, I think the CL-er knew this was a weird shot in the dark....the requests on which CL was built.
                            The armchair saddler
                            Politically Pro-Cat

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              DH told me once that the little butcher shop we use has timeframes to process species, so when deer hunting season comes around they put a hold on all the pigs and cows, and I think he told me that this is federal regulation. I do know that we don't sell meat, we sell the pig to one or more persons and deliver it to the butcher shop for them and they pay the butcher shop for their share.

                              We sell to a pastured pork/free range etc slaughterhouse as well and they are big enough to have an inspector etc. I think theoretically we could have meat processed by them using our farm label if we had a farm products store. It was HARD to get our operation to qualify to sell at that place.

                              They eat horsemeat on the rez, I'll bet that somebody digs a package out of the freezer for this fella.
                              Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                              Incredible Invisible

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Finzean View Post
                                I'm referring less to foreign matter...we live in farm world, foreign matter is a just the way it is sometimes. I'm more referring to the way in which cattle are kept in feed lots, stressed and crammed full of grain living a digestive life for which they are not designed. I've personally been to feed lots and first hand observed the "life" these poor animals endure until they are slaughtered. Humane slaughter and foreign matter is only part of the equation for me & my family. As far as Ireland & England....I'm referring specifically to the States and what we Americans depend upon our government to deem "safe" for us to eat. We are not food nazis but we are educated about our food web and are not in the least disconnected as to how our food (all of it) reaches us.

                                Not only do I know the farmers who raise our beef, chicken, pork, and lamb, but I see the animals on those farms and I know the slaughter house that processes the animals. The point I'm making is that while horse meat is unpalatable to me, personally, I can't imagine it is any worse than some of the stuff we check off as okay to consume in the US.

                                Written from atop the High Horse where I shall stay...God forbid someone should slaughter my horse out from under me.
                                You sound there like you know about how to raise cattle and what makes them happy as much as those very nice people that toured this fancy BNT stables and coming out were commenting, concerned, "such pretty horses, but why do they keep them in jail, behind bars?"

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by MandyVA View Post
                                  If you're buying directly from a local farmer, is the meat USDA inspected? I wouldn't think a private farmer direct to consumer transaction would be regulated at all. Regardless of the type of meat. No federal jurisdiction there.
                                  That depends but most often it is. I have all my beef and pork slaughtered at a small custom USDA plant in Fredericksburg, Va, so I have the legal ability to sell it one piece at a time..say a lb of burger or a roast. These little places are so busy that it can take weeks to get an appt to have your animal processed. I'm taking an old cow up next week actually...she's open..did not catch and has udder issues...so it's time to put her to another purpose.

                                  However..going back to your question....if I wanted to sell a "share" of the meat...say half the pig or a quarter of the beef, there is no legal requirement for a USDA seal since the person is buying the animal and not the meat and paying for the processing. Got to love those loopholes but it does require someone to buy a quantity of meat versus just a few pieces and most of the time people just send them to the plant anyway versus do the slaughtering themselves. It's a lot of work to butcher a beef and it needs to hang and age for 2 weeks.

                                  Keep in mind that a USDA inspection in not a guarantee that the meat is healthy or anything. It only means it passed a visual inspection and certain standards were met. For example if the animal is over 30 months, you have to throw away the spine and the meat you usually get from that area due to Mad Cow regulations and the inspector gets to decide if the cow is that old or not by looking at it's teeth. I suppose they do occasionally substance test but no one has ever asked me if I followed withholding periods for meds or anything. I know what they are and I follow the rules but it's not a question anyone asks.

                                  I think it's a farce myself but I follow the law because I have to to operate legally not because I think it gives my customers more wholesome meat. Poultry falls under some different rules and you can often do the processing yourselves.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
                                    That depends but most often it is. I have all my beef and pork slaughtered at a small custom USDA plant in Fredericksburg, Va, so I have the legal ability to sell it one piece at a time..say a lb of burger or a roast. These little places are so busy that it can take weeks to get an appt to have your animal processed. I'm taking an old cow up next week actually...she's open..did not catch and has udder issues...so it's time to put her to another purpose.

                                    However..going back to your question....if I wanted to sell a "share" of the meat...say half the pig or a quarter of the beef, there is no legal requirement for a USDA seal since the person is buying the animal and not the meat and paying for the processing. Got to love those loopholes but it does require someone to buy a quantity of meat versus just a few pieces and most of the time people just send them to the plant anyway versus do the slaughtering themselves. It's a lot of work to butcher a beef and it needs to hang and age for 2 weeks.

                                    Keep in mind that a USDA inspection in not a guarantee that the meat is healthy or anything. It only means it passed a visual inspection and certain standards were met. For example if the animal is over 30 months, you have to throw away the spine and the meat you usually get from that area due to Mad Cow regulations and the inspector gets to decide if the cow is that old or not by looking at it's teeth. I suppose they do occasionally substance test but no one has ever asked me if I followed withholding periods for meds or anything. I know what they are and I follow the rules but it's not a question anyone asks.

                                    I think it's a farce myself but I follow the law because I have to to operate legally not because I think it gives my customers more wholesome meat. Poultry falls under some different rules and you can often do the processing yourselves.
                                    Carcasses are aged by USDA inspectors for age above 30 months old by the maturity of the cartilage between ribs, in the intercostal spaces.
                                    There are no teeth to evaluate in hanging carcasses.
                                    There is much an inspector inspects in the carcass, before it gets stamped.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      They eat horsemeat on the rez, I'll bet that somebody digs a package out of the freezer for this fella.
                                      Most don't, but it's not unheard of. A rez friend and co-worker gave me part of an immense chunk of meat that was given to them. Someone will get a deer or an elk, or butcher a steer, and they'll share. I was going to say "left on the doorstep," but the dogs would have it if it wasn't well packaged in a good cooler.

                                      I thanked her for the meat and asked, half joking, "This isn't horse, is it?" She said, "I don't know. I don't thinnnnnk so..." So we thawed it, roasted it, and turned it into barbecued sandwiches, because barbecue sauce hides a multitude of sins...and there were no horseshoes in the package. It was probably venison, it certainly wasn't beef, but meat's meat.

                                      Having had a number of horses that I wouldn't have minded eating, if it were convenient and I lived out there with hundreds of junk horses wandering through my yard, I'd sure consider dropping one and making Whinny Whoppers. A game officer who worked elsewhere told me that a backstrap off of a horse should be pretty good, and he'd eat it in a heartbeat if it were available.

                                      There'd also be no concerns about any meds whatsoever in those horses. They were researching a kill plant, but I don't know the current status of that idea. With some 4000 roaming horses, the raw material is there for quite a while.

                                      And if I get offered another hunk of frozen mystery meat, I'll say thank you, and break out the barbecue sauce!
                                      "I couldn't fix your brakes, so I made your horn louder."

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Also, there might be mobile butchers/meat processors around here.

                                        You could find these guys in CA where I grew up, and I think I have seen handmade signs for this in my OR travels.

                                        I haven't heard hide nor hair of the CL Carnivore since I started this thread.
                                        The armchair saddler
                                        Politically Pro-Cat

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                          Also, there might be mobile butchers/meat processors around here.

                                          You could find these guys in CA where I grew up, and I think I have seen handmade signs for this in my OR travels.

                                          I haven't heard hide nor hair of the CL Carnivore since I started this thread.

                                          Would horsevore apply here?

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X