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Rehabbing the Parellified horse?

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  • Rehabbing the Parellified horse?

    DISCLAIMER: I have limited knowledge of Parelli, other than the most basic of basics-- there are 7 games, most of it is ground work, a lot of emphasis is put on what the horse feels like doing today (as opposed to the rider/handler), etc. Frankly, I find the whole thing to be very cult-like and it's safe to say that I will not be joining their ranks anytime soon.

    As I am well aware that most of this forum is of the same opinion, I shall post this here (and not try to start a flame war by going to a more Parelli-friendly board)...

    There are a few Parelli people at my barn. They are all very, very nice people, and I have nothing against them personally; they don't try to twist me to their methods and vice versa... so my issue is not with THEM, but with the occasional results of their methods.

    We have a horse at our barn who has been Parellified for quite a while. He's not a MEAN horse, but he has absolutely NO respect for his handlers-- he has repeatedly run people over (including me) at pasture gates, in his stall, pinned people against walls, etc. He just bulldozes people, not with malicious intent, but because he CAN-- if he wants to go from X to Y and you happen to be in the way, he completely ignores you and just goes where he pleases.

    He has already seriously injured someone due to his behaviors-- ran her over coming out of his stall, broke bones in her foot/leg. He's at the point now where the barn staff is (or soon will be) refusing to handle him... I don't know if the BO is going to evict him, or what. If that DOES happen, I don't know whether his owner will just move him, or try to sell him. (She NEVER rides him; he's basically a big pet.)

    So here's where my curiosity kicks in... Is it POSSIBLE to un-Parelli horses like this??

    I have no intention of trying to buy him, or offering to work with him, but the thought DID occur to me... because he IS a sweet-tempered horse (strange as it sounds), and there's not a darned thing wrong with him (physically, anyway) that should prevent him from being a great riding horse at some point-- he's stout, sturdy, great feet, great age, even gaited-- the kind of horse I could see my husband enjoying on trails. Honestly, if we were in the financial position of being able to afford a second horse (we're not), I would almost consider giving it a go.

    So, in a hypothetical world... How would one undo the trainwreck which (IMHO) was brought about by too many years of Parelli training???
    *friend of bar.ka

    "Evidently, I am an unrepentant b*tch, possible trouble maker, and all around super villian"

  • #2
    You just re-train the horse like you would do with any other ill-trained horse.

    You start back at the basic and try to find the holes in the training.

    It can be long, you might have to live with some quirks that might never totally disappear but that is life!

    Learning about the Parallel training might help understanding the horse's reaction.

    ETA : While I don't like the PPs very much, I don't think the issue of this horse running over people has nothing to do with being or not parallelified. The horse just need some sort of a CTJ moment from someone who knows how to do so and have consistent training sessions. Sounds like a bored horse that needs a daily job to me.
    ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

    Originally posted by LauraKY
    I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
    HORSING mobile training app

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    • #3
      No matter how he was trained, he is a badly trained horse right now and that is how you approach it and start remedying what should not be.

      We got horses like that before Parelli was in anyone's radars.
      They were generally owned and handled by someone that should still be taking lessons, not thinking their horse is a big dog and with little talent to be in control of situations.

      The trouble with those horses, you do have to get them retrained and then kept trained, they are not naturally polite, friendly, easy going horse, but more of a tricky personality.

      The real trouble, who wants to live with such a horse?
      Life is too complicated without adding those kinds of horses to worry with, unless you are a professional and that horse doing a job very good and so talented as to be worth putting up with it.

      You want a nice husband horse, get one that is that now, I would say.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by cnvh View Post
        DISCLAIMER:
        So here's where my curiosity kicks in... Is it POSSIBLE to un-Parelli horses like this??

        I have no intention of trying to buy him, or offering to work with him, but the thought DID occur to me...
        You can't retrain him... Parelli horses are trained to kill all that is non-Parelli. You have to kill him during a full moon and then drink the blood so you don't get haunted by his evil spirit.

        Or you could mind you business since the horse isn't yours. Get a life. Starting Parelli train wrecks on COTH is getting old.
        The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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        • #5
          Wow 7HL, it was just a question. No need to tell OP to "get a life."

          In regards to the question, OP, I don't think that this behavior is necessarily just related to Parelli. It's just behavior that is learned by people not training well or not being strict enough. I've seen horses like this that are not Parelli trained. I'd just start at the beginning with the basics and treat the horse like it is not broke. That way you cover all the bases.
          http://www.youtube.com/user/NBChoice http://nbchoice.blogspot.com/
          The New Banner's Choice- 1994 ASB Mare
          Dennis The Menace Too- 1999 ASB Gelding
          Dreamacres Sublime- 2008 ASB Gelding

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          • #6
            Agree w/NBChoice...this is sort of indicative of lots of "I bought these great training videos!" people who should be working with an experienced horse person instead of trying to go it on their own at home (ETA - or where ever they are keeping their horse/pony).

            This horse just needs retrained. Parelli isn't "drink the kool-aid" for the horse.
            Last edited by Finzean; Jan. 22, 2013, 02:05 PM. Reason: clarification

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            • #7
              Whips and chains.

              Seriously. Has anyone handled this horse with tools that inflict a little more pain that a regular old human body in this horse's way?

              I have worked with a few that have been Parellified. You go slowly and insist on what you want. Stop (to let them think) and praise for any correct response from the horse.

              But there's no reason to be continually run over by a horse if you haven't yet stepped things up a notch with a chain over the nose and perhaps a dressage whip in hand. If you do it right, you don't need to use these things very often after you have taught the horse what you wanted in the first place.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

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              • #8
                I agree, this behavior doesn't have anything to do with Parelli as a training method. He would be this way no matter what "training du jour" the owner chose to use on him, if he has her number like it sounds from your description. I am not that familiar with Parelli but have used similar concepts to establish respect on the ground from my older, dominant horse. And it actually worked very well.

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                • #9
                  It took me FOREVER to get my horse to lunge. He was Parellized prior to me purchasing him. He would just stand there staring at me. Presumably waiting for me to start shaking the line at him?

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by mvp View Post
                    Whips and chains.

                    Seriously. Has anyone handled this horse with tools that inflict a little more pain that a regular old human body in this horse's way?

                    I have worked with a few that have been Parellified. You go slowly and insist on what you want. Stop (to let them think) and praise for any correct response from the horse.

                    But there's no reason to be continually run over by a horse if you haven't yet stepped things up a notch with a chain over the nose and perhaps a dressage whip in hand. If you do it right, you don't need to use these things very often after you have taught the horse what you wanted in the first place.
                    I posted about this horse a few months ago when he ran me over at the gate when I was bringing my own horse out (with whom he shares a pasture)... I vowed to bring along a buggy whip the next time (although there was some debate over whether it was a buggy whip or something similar; I forget what the decision was), which I did, and it took half a dozen HARD cracks across his chest, with as much force as I could muster, to get him to step back. He hasn't disrespected my space since, although to be honest, I'm not around him very much.

                    I agree that it isn't Parelli methods that have caused this problem, but I don't think Parellification has done him any favors, either. Personally, I think his BIGGEST problem is that, right now, he's being dealt with by completely differing methods (Parelli by owner and her friends, "tough love to a point" by barn staff), neither of which seem to support/reinforce the other.

                    Again, I'm not buying him. Hell, I don't think I could afford him even if she GAVE him to me. Just curious from a hypothetical standpoint, and/or to hear from anyone who has dealt with retraining a Parelli horse themselves... I was mainly curious if it's been different than any other kind of retraining (e.g., Western to English, etc.)...
                    *friend of bar.ka

                    "Evidently, I am an unrepentant b*tch, possible trouble maker, and all around super villian"

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      7HL, the first half of your response had me laughing out loud... Sorry to have so disturbed your day. Carry on!!
                      *friend of bar.ka

                      "Evidently, I am an unrepentant b*tch, possible trouble maker, and all around super villian"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I find that the 'stick and string' works really well on Parellified horse if
                        you haul off and wack them pretty hard with it LOL.

                        Seriously, I was working with one who was a complete brat about loading on the trailer.

                        He was not afraid in the least, he just didn't want to get on. So I worked on lunging him and gettinghim moving forward. Then I lunged him right up the trailer ramp (at a walk). When he hit the brakes, he got a good smack across the butt with the stick/string (because I couldn't lunge him with a whip) and he hopped right on the trailer. I let him sit there and enjoy the treats I left inside for him, then I backed him off, reloaded the treat bucket, sent him off in a circle, and sent him up the ramp. He didn't need a swat the next time.

                        Owner was very happy that she had a horse that self-loaded.

                        But I also wouldn't mess with someone's horse unless they asked me specifically for help.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Parelli type training has nothing to do with it. He has been allowed to run the show and has zero respect for his handlers. This happens to a lot of horses and you retrain them all the same way. It is amazing how fast a horse can progress when the handling is firm, gentle and consistent.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We could teach horses to canter at the high note of the Star Spangled Banner if we wished.

                            PP stuff is what it is.

                            Manners are what they are.

                            There is not really a connundrum here. Just like kids, horses can learn different rules in different places. If I just bowed to Mom's rules with the kids, I would have to be cool with teens standing on their chairs, eating steak with their hands and singing at the tops of their lungs. No. Not at my house.

                            Similarly, no matter the "training" of the horse, you can expect good manners.
                            A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                            Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gumshoe View Post
                              It took me FOREVER to get my horse to lunge. He was Parellized prior to me purchasing him. He would just stand there staring at me. Presumably waiting for me to start shaking the line at him?

                              Or could it be he was never taught how to lunge?? My daughters horse who never met a Parelli could only lunge one way. Turn her to go the other way and she was clueless.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by candyappy View Post
                                Or could it be he was never taught how to lunge?? My daughters horse who never met a Parelli could only lunge one way. Turn her to go the other way and she was clueless.
                                yes, no, maybe....
                                but part of one or the other game is for the horse to always look at the handler. facing....

                                but I would like to know how you untrain the rope wiggle reinback....
                                Originally posted by BigMama1
                                Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                GNU Terry Prachett

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by 7HL View Post
                                  You can't retrain him... Parelli horses are trained to kill all that is non-Parelli. You have to kill him during a full moon and then drink the blood so you don't get haunted by his evil spirit.

                                  Or you could mind you business since the horse isn't yours. Get a life. Starting Parelli train wrecks on COTH is getting old.
                                  Much better! Your response is in a timely fashion
                                  Draumr Hesta Farm
                                  "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                                  Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                    yes, no, maybe....
                                    but part of one or the other game is for the horse to always look at the handler. facing....

                                    but I would like to know how you untrain the rope wiggle reinback....
                                    You learn that in the higher PP levels, where you then only wag your finger, later only point.

                                    I disagree with them that the initial wild waving and clunking and the high heads and overreaction those provoke are the best way to teach a horse to back to the end of a line.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                      You learn that in the higher PP levels, where you then only wag your finger, later only point.

                                      I disagree with them that the initial wild waving and clunking and the high heads and overreaction those provoke are the best way to teach a horse to back to the end of a line.
                                      There is a lot more I disagree with but hey....

                                      Who was it, Woodland? Or was her name Woodlawn? I can't remember...she had some fun encounters....
                                      Originally posted by BigMama1
                                      Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                      GNU Terry Prachett

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by candyappy View Post
                                        Or could it be he was never taught how to lunge?? My daughters horse who never met a Parelli could only lunge one way. Turn her to go the other way and she was clueless.
                                        I believe spinning them around on the end of their long lead is one of the most basic beginner games.

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