• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Wow..."Horsemeat found in beef burgers on sale in UK and Ireland"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
    Heck no, Europe had a real bad hormones in meat problem for years, when the USA had long quit using those kinds, while using the "horrible hormones in meat" logo to ban USA imports.
    Thankfully the International Tribunal, after ten years of testimonies, ruled in favor of the USA.

    Europe has plenty of problems, as we can see here, although no one is exempt from having crooks somewhere.
    Yeah, we get away with that yet heaven forbid you'd find a misshapen carrot in an EU country supermarket. Personally, I'd much rather eat misshapen carrots than unidentifiable meat. kthanksbye.
    "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
    "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
      the meat was not thought to be a health hazard....

      in Europe people do not wholesale feed medications to their horses as they do in the US...and even here only a few really do it...
      Except that many EU nations import horsemeat from the US and Canada where horsemeat is known to contain Bute. France, where the problem was found, is one of the largest importers of US/Canadian horsemeat.

      They also have a problem with fraudulent passports in the EU. Recently a horse who was supposedly slaughtered, according to his passport, was found wandering the streets. Some other horse was slaughtered, using a forged passport of his.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Event4Life View Post
        Yeah, we get away with that yet heaven forbid you'd find a misshapen carrot in an EU country supermarket. Personally, I'd much rather eat misshapen carrots than unidentifiable meat. kthanksbye.
        No one "got away" with anything, science prevailed.
        When you have thousands less hormones in beef that the animal would have without being a steer, hundreds of thousands less than in, say, soybeans, when we know there are naturally occurring hormones of all kinds and at much higher levels in everything, in cattle even when none is added thru the growing phase and what is has been long ago eliminated, well, no one could deny USA beef was extremely safe.

        Anyway, back on topic, there are some pesky laws called "truth in selling" that apply here.
        You as a seller have to represent what you sell accurately, or it is, guess what - FRAUD.

        No matter what you sell, 100% beef hamburgers using fillers of any kind, pork or any other meat in them, is illegal.
        Oatmeal using mostly wheat is illegal, etc.

        That is what is the problem here.
        That the meat mislabeled was horse, that is why we are talking about this here, on a horse forum.
        I don't think this thread would have fit here if it had been roo meat in there.

        Comment


        • #44
          NewsPod, a podcast from the BBC, had a great story about the horse meat Tesco debacle. There were several excellent interviews from "the officials" and some candid reactions by Britons who had eaten the Tesco burgers. It's available for download here for one more day.
          http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/newspod

          Or if you prefer your podcasts via iTunes:
          https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...132159216&mt=2
          Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

          Comment


          • #45
            Anyone else see this? Horsemeat likely came from Romania which recently banned horses and carts from roadsways. : (

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaaru...-meat-scandal/

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Bluey View Post
              No one "got away" with anything, science prevailed.
              When you have thousands less hormones in beef that the animal would have without being a steer, hundreds of thousands less than in, say, soybeans, when we know there are naturally occurring hormones of all kinds and at much higher levels in everything, in cattle even when none is added thru the growing phase and what is has been long ago eliminated, well, no one could deny USA beef was extremely safe.

              Anyway, back on topic, there are some pesky laws called "truth in selling" that apply here.
              You as a seller have to represent what you sell accurately, or it is, guess what - FRAUD.

              No matter what you sell, 100% beef hamburgers using fillers of any kind, pork or any other meat in them, is illegal.
              Oatmeal using mostly wheat is illegal, etc.

              That is what is the problem here.
              That the meat mislabeled was horse, that is why we are talking about this here, on a horse forum.
              I don't think this thread would have fit here if it had been roo meat in there.
              "Truth in Selling?" OK--'splain THIS one to me:

              Jones Farm ham steak. Front of label says "97% fat free." Go to the BACK of the label to the Nutrition Facts and, of a 70-calorie, 2 oz. portion, 25% of the calories are from fat. Which, by my rough guesstimate, is like 35% fat, is it not?

              Now somebody better at math than me, please explain how both these labelings can be "true."

              At the same time, the front label screams "25% Lower Sodium!" (than USDA data for ham steaks), says the super-fine print, without describing what that number might be. From the back label, we're talking 500 mg. sodium per 2 oz. portion, which is beaucoup salty where I'm from. Not that that's a BAD thing, I like all the fat, salt & alcohol I can get, of course!

              Comment


              • #47
                "Lower" sodium means "less than a comparable product", not "no salt." So that tells you that 500mg/portion is less than the average ham product USDA is aware of. It doesn't mean it's "low sodium." If it were a low sodium product, it would say "low", not lower. (Of course low sodium ham would probably suck...)

                Also, 97% of the product in the package is not fat. If you chopped up everything in it and rendered it into component nutritional categories (I assume mostly protein and fat, given it's a meat product and water and relatively little in the way of carbs except from any sugar used in curing), 3% would be fat, some of it would be water (as ham tends to have a lot of brine injected into the packaged varieties) and the remaining weight would be fat. Not really related to how the kcals break down.
                Author Page
                Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                Steampunk Sweethearts

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                  "Truth in Selling?" OK--'splain THIS one to me:

                  Jones Farm ham steak. Front of label says "97% fat free." Go to the BACK of the label to the Nutrition Facts and, of a 70-calorie, 2 oz. portion, 25% of the calories are from fat. Which, by my rough guesstimate, is like 35% fat, is it not?

                  Now somebody better at math than me, please explain how both these labelings can be "true."

                  At the same time, the front label screams "25% Lower Sodium!" (than USDA data for ham steaks), says the super-fine print, without describing what that number might be. From the back label, we're talking 500 mg. sodium per 2 oz. portion, which is beaucoup salty where I'm from. Not that that's a BAD thing, I like all the fat, salt & alcohol I can get, of course!
                  Your Federal Government, in its infinite wisdom, has multiple sets of regulations for the same product that often are not "congruent." So it's quite possible, for regulatory purposes, for something to be both black and white at the same time.

                  If you modify the famous Marxist observation (from Groucho, not Karl) it's all very clear:

                  "Government regulation" is to "regulation as "Government music" is to "music."

                  G.
                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    ...You as a seller have to represent what you sell accurately, or it is, guess what - FRAUD...
                    Too bad we don't hold politicians to the same standard.
                    The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
                    Winston Churchill

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Willesdon View Post

                      In the UK, ONLY vets are permitted to treat/medicate animals.
                      Umm.... does your vet come out every time your horse needs a bute?

                      The whole passport system is a farce. It seems quite easy to have multiple passports with various ages and breeds for one horse. Plus I'm pretty damn sure fillet of cob is not sent to mainland Europe with a passport complete with medication history .
                      No hugging dear. I'm British, we only show affection to dogs and horses.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I haven't read many of the articles- too gross for me.

                        What was the incentive for using the horse meat? Was it cheaper than beef?

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Wow, this is turning into big time movie material:

                          http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/fe...tor-bout-firms
                          ************************
                          \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Great article and frankly for those that get that I don't like what he's saying feeling in their gut...its just the truth settling in don't fear it.

                            http://themakingprogressblues.wordpr...ts-your-fault/
                            "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                              Except that many EU nations import horsemeat from the US and Canada where horsemeat is known to contain Bute. France, where the problem was found, is one of the largest importers of US/Canadian horsemeat.
                              .
                              Except that the meat imported from Canada does not end up on the shelves in the stores. I am pretty sure it is re-exported somewhere else in Europe. It is truly amazing to read about the travel of the meat.

                              Every package of meat has to show its country of origin and, since I go every year (and not as a tourist), I go grocery shopping to many big and small stores. I always check and take notes of how many packages of horse meat are available (easy to notice them as they are a different colour - red and white - from the other trays). There are very few in comparison to the other meats and I have only seen a couple of packages stating Canada. Never US, but then the s/h have been closed for a while. I have seen Argentina, Italy, Belgium most often!
                              Also this article, although in French, shows the percentage of horse meat consumed in France.
                              http://www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2013/02...2BbaCIjPdE%2B2

                              A disturbing fact as reported by my mom today: she had just seen a news report that this whole mess with horse meat had reminded the French that this was a "healthier" meat (talk about PR work) and cheaper (!!??) than beef... so the specialty butcher shops and restaurants serving horse meat are doing brisk business... sigh... And people made a point to say they were not British with their moral uppity....

                              I hope they do enjoy their bute flavoured meat since traces of bute have been found in carcasses that were sent to France.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Europe and meats are not the only places crooks work.
                                In December, right in the USA, there were such stories making the news, but about mislabeled fish.
                                The stories here seem to have died down:

                                http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/sc...york.html?_r=0

                                ---Tests Say Mislabeled Fish Is a Widespread Problem
                                By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL
                                Published: December 11, 2012

                                Fish is frequently misidentified on menus and grocery store counters in New York City, even at expensive restaurants and specialty shops, DNA testing for a new study found. National supermarket chains had the best record for accuracy in seafood labeling, the researchers reported.

                                The researchers, from the conservation group Oceana, said that genetic analyses showed that 39 percent of nearly 150 samples of fresh seafood collected from 81 establishments in the city this summer were mislabeled. The study did not identify any of the restaurants or stores, although it noted that most were in Manhattan.

                                In some cases, cheaper types of fish were substituted for expensive species. In others, fish that consumers have been urged to avoid because stocks are depleted, putting the species or a fishery at risk, was identified as a type of fish that is not threatened. Although such mislabeling violates laws protecting consumers, it is hard to detect.

                                Some of the findings present public health concerns. Thirteen types of fish, including tilapia and tilefish, were falsely identified as red snapper. Tilefish contains such high mercury levels that the federal Food and Drug Administration advises women who are pregnant or nursing and young children not to eat it.

                                Ninety-four percent of fish sold as white tuna was not tuna at all but in many cases a fish known as snake mackerel, or escolar, which contains a toxin that can cause severe diarrhea if more than a few ounces of meat are ingested.

                                “There are a lot of flummoxed people out there who are trying to buy fish carefully and trying to shop their conscience, but they can’t if this kind of fraud is happening,” said Kimberly Warner, a senior scientist at Oceana, who led the study.

                                She said that Oceana’s study might underestimate the prevalence of the problem because researchers primarily solicited samples by asking its New York-area supporters to send in tiny slices of the fish they were eating.

                                Andrew Moesel, a spokesman for the New York State Restaurant Association, said that restaurants were victims, too, when it came to fish fraud. “Restaurants would be very concerned that a high percentage of fish are not what they had ordered,” he said. “Unless you’re very sophisticated, you may not be able to tell the difference between certain species of fish when you receive them.”

                                -
                                -
                                -"---


                                There are crooks everyplace.
                                Hope they catch them and make examples of them.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  When I saw Stouffer's lasagna on sale today...I did think about Findus.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    I got my issue of The Economist - they had a thought provoking article on this subject. And frankly - they and some other publications raise very good points. Consumers demand super cheap, pre-packaged food 24/7. And they don't want the means of that production any where near them. You want cheap food from far away? Don't be surprised by what it contains. Food safety has improved dramatically - that's a good thing. But people should step back and reflect on the fact that their incessant yammering and demands for super cheap food has consequences.

                                    Though prices of raw materials are going up, penny-pinching consumers refuse to pay more for ready-meals. Retailers, equally unwilling to forgo profits, are putting relentless pressure on suppliers to cut costs. They in turn are frantically rejigging foodstuffs to be cheaper. “De-sinewed meat” (scraps mechanically separated from the carcass) seemed a fitting ingredient for low-priced British hamburgers until last April. But then the European Commission banned most types of it. Patty makers may have looked abroad for an alternative.

                                    The mislabelled-mince saga reveals “just how convoluted” the supply chain can be, says Bryan Roberts of Kantar Retail, a consultancy. The ground-up horse that found its way into the own-label lasagne of Findus and Aldi was apparently slaughtered in Romania. Two intermediaries arranged its shipment to a French processor, Spanghero, which sent it to a factory in Luxembourg owned by Comigel, also French. “The more complex the food chain, the more difficult it is to control,” says Mark Woolfe, a former head of food authenticity at Britain’s Food Standards Agency.
                                    http://www.economist.com/news/busine...as-been-bolted
                                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                    -Rudyard Kipling

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                                      I got my issue of The Economist - they had a thought provoking article on this subject. And frankly - they and some other publications raise very good points. Consumers demand super cheap, pre-packaged food 24/7. And they don't want the means of that production any where near them. You want cheap food from far away? Don't be surprised by what it contains. Food safety has improved dramatically - that's a good thing. But people should step back and reflect on the fact that their incessant yammering and demands for super cheap food has consequences.



                                      http://www.economist.com/news/busine...as-been-bolted
                                      the world's food supply i controlled by about 4 mega conglomerates...rosy expectations...

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Local news just mentioned, they now found pizzas being served in Denmark containing 39% of horse meat in the meat used on those pizzas.

                                        Supplier claims that the pizzeria operators were well aware of it.
                                        ************************
                                        \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          As an aside.... I wonder if this is a way suppliers can lower the fat content in their products yet still meet whatever requirements there are for meat/beef content.

                                          Horsemeat tends to be much leaner than beef - generally. It's just a thought - I could be way off base. I was just thinking of how the Chinese added melamine to products to up the protein content, was it?
                                          Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                          Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                          -Rudyard Kipling

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X