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Saddle advice...

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  • Saddle advice...

    This may be in the wrong section but I couldn't figure out where else to put it.

    I am looking for an [edit] A/P (preferably with blocks) with a tree that will fit Lacy (medium to wide depending on brand). For now I'm looking for a reasonably cheap one ($0-$500). Obviously I'd prefer used as I want the best quality for the money.

    [edit] Anyone have brand suggestions? Anything else I should know?

    I had the opportunity to try an HDR AP regular tree on my horse. Do you think this fits?

    http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...ddle/side2.jpg

    http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...le/gullet2.jpg

    http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...addle/hip2.jpg

    http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w.../shoulder2.jpg

    http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...ddle/rear2.jpg

    Thanks for the help guys!

    ACC
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Oct. 10, 2008, 08:09 AM. Reason: specifics

  • #2
    No saddle expert, but that cantle is high. Not a good fit.
    Jen Evans & DaBear

    Comment


    • #3
      Can you by any chance girth it up and sit in it?

      That will give you a good picture as to if it fits you and her. That saddle will settle down a bit when you sit in it.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by 2hsmommy View Post
        No saddle expert, but that cantle is high. Not a good fit.
        It's an all purpose, it's going to be high. The seat is level.

        ACC

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by ThoroughbredFancy View Post
          Can you by any chance girth it up and sit in it?

          That will give you a good picture as to if it fits you and her. That saddle will settle down a bit when you sit in it.
          That's my next chore. It belongs to a fellow boarder so I'll have to ask her to borrow it... yet again.

          ACC

          Comment


          • #6
            When you've confirmed the saddle fit, and know the exact size, you should try Ebay - especially as Christmas specials will be going up soon! I got a VERY nice used Stubben for $400something last year...unfortunately my horse outgrew it in a year.
            UsedSaddles.Com is a good place to shop too!

            Comment


            • #7
              No, it doesn't fit, and it doesn't fit in ways that won't change once it's girthed up.

              Look at the rear shot. The panel shape is too slopey for this horse's back. It will dig into her on the edge of the panel and probably not make sufficient contact on the inside of the panel. The effect might LOOK better with weight in the saddle, but that will be because the panels will be digging into the horse.

              That's already a deal killer, but it also looks from the first shot like the saddle is slid WAY too far back on the horse. That may be where this particular saddle "lands" because the saddle is too narrow, but if you slide the saddle forward, that will tip the whole thing backward and dig into the mare's shoulder. It's apparent that the saddle is too far back because the tree points should be 2 to 3 inches behind the scapula, and we can SEE the mare's scapula in front of the saddle. It is definitely a solid 4 inches or more back to the tree point from there.

              In theory, you could fix both problems by trying the same saddle in a wider size, but then you're going to have gullet clearance issues.

              I'd say to try a different piece of tack.
              Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree with Jn4jenny- the saddle simply does not fit, and girthing it up and sitting in it is not going to fundamentally change the fit, just the appearance. I would try a different brand- eBay is a good place to get something if you know what size to get.
                "The more I see, the less I know, the more I like to let it go." -Red Hot Chili Peppers

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree that it doesn't fit. What I see is a saddle that is tipped slightly forward (cantle high), the points of the tree don't match the angle of the withers, and the panels are the wrong shape! Guess that sums it up .

                  Keep borrowing saddles -- it's a great way to figure out what will work. You'll also get a much better sense for what shape saddle will work on your horse.
                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 2hsmommy View Post
                    No saddle expert, but that cantle is high. Not a good fit.
                    She's right..cantle top and pommel tops should be dead level with each other....

                    My first choice for an AP would be Stubbens......
                    Then Crosby
                    *************************
                    Go, Baby, Go......
                    Aefvue Farms Footing Inspector

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      How can this EVER be level? It's just not possible.

                      https://www.whipnspur.com/images/2005.jpg

                      I agree with most of what you guys said but I just can't see how the pommel and a high cantle are EVER going to be level.

                      My budget for now is about $500. While i have found some very nice used saddles for that price (including a LOVELY Stubbens), I can't find one in my size. Also, I'm terrified I will order one in and it won't fit her... at least I know how this one fits. I can get it in a wide, I just don't think the rear panels are going to change much.

                      Thank you... if anyone has any specific suggestions or places to look I'd appreciate it.

                      ACC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Actually, in some a/p saddles, the cantle and pommel are NOT level. According to the Stubben North America Web site:

                        "When it is girthed, the pommel of the saddle should be approximately 1" lower than the cantle."

                        http://www.stubbennorthamerica.com/s...leFitting.html

                        What needs to be level is the seat. If the saddle is tipping you either too far forward or too far back it will create pressure points on your horse's back and will also potentially impinge the nerves that run along the spine.

                        As to your question, your best bet is to either borrow saddles or find a consignment shop where you can try different saddles on your horse. I agree, it's difficult to buy a saddle "off the rack" and hope that it fits. I personally prefer wool flocked saddles as the flocking can be adjusted as your horse changes shape. My OTTB had a saddle fitted at the end of March. It is now too narrow as he has filled out and muscled up. Some of the high end foam paneled saddles have a certain amount of "give" which allows them to fit over a period of time (some manufacturers, like CWD, will make new panels if your horse changes shape to the point where the saddle no longer fits for approx. $400).

                        Your posting doesn't say where you are located. The most well stocked consignment shops that I know are Trumball Mountain, Pelham Saddlery, www.usedsaddles.com, Rick's Heritage Saddlery, and Middleburg Tack Exchange. If you are close to any of them, it's worth a drive. Otherwise, you can have saddles shipped. The folks at Trumball Mountain are very knowledgeable about saddle fit and can probably help you narrow down what you need if you send them photos of your horse's back.
                        Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                        EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ricks heritage saddlery..is a good place to start...they have a good trial policy too so you can have it sent to you and if it doesn't fit you can send it back. some saddles in your price range there.

                          Farmhouse tack.. also has a trial policy.. lost of used to choose from.

                          Do you have any local tack shops with a trial policy??? You may have to try a lot to see what fits your horse the best but it will be worth it in the end.

                          You may know how the saddle you pictured fits your horse... which according to people that have more knowledge than me is wrong. You may have a saddle in the short term but in the long term you will be out mega $$$ for fixing soreness problems later and having to buy a different saddle anyway. Take it from someone who has been there.

                          The saddle... to me is the single most important bit of tack you put on your horse. It affects rider position, horse movement, horse comfort, and rider comfort. It is worth the extra time and sometimes extra $$ it takes to get just the right fit. If I had to sacrifice one thing it would be my comfort over my horses because I have had to deal with back soreness in a horse due to bad saddle fit and I do not care to repeat it. Good luck in your search.. and take the time to try multiple saddles to find the best possible fit within your budget.. your horse will thank you.
                          ___._/> I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy every
                          ____/ minute of it! Member stick horse art lovers
                          ';;;;;;; clique
                          //__\\<-- Don't feed the llama!

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Thank you Bogie and Horse-Loverz. I really appreciate your help and support.

                            I'm in Lexington, Ky. I don't really know of anywhere near me that can help sadly. Any ideas?

                            I'll look into the sites and places you listed.

                            Trust me... I have NO intention of riding this horse in a saddle that doesn't fit her as well as is possible. She means too much to me.

                            ACC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OOOH I live south of Louisville... Hitching Post tack shop here in Louisville has a some used saddles.. not sure about their trial policy though.... I have used Ricks trial policy and they were wonderful to deal with, and I talked to the lady at Farmhouse once at one of the A or AA shows at the Horse Park last summer and they were nice as well.

                              I have delt with Super Dave with Collierville saddlery (he runs their mobile unit) they have a wide selection of used... no website but the link has their phone # so that may help..

                              Can you tell I've had to try a few saddles out??
                              ___._/> I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy every
                              ____/ minute of it! Member stick horse art lovers
                              ';;;;;;; clique
                              //__\\<-- Don't feed the llama!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I think what is confusing some folks is that this horse is a bit downhill. Even IF this saddle were to sit level in the pommel-cantle relationship, it's not going to sit that way on a downhill horse.

                                Besides, since a pommel can be very high, or next to non-existent, a cantle can be long and sloped back, or curvy and high, it is NOT correct to judge anything about fit by comparing their relationship.

                                Ideally, the saddle will have the lowest point in the exact horizontal middle of the saddle. This is easy to test by putting a pencil across the seat and see where it settles. But again, on a horse who sits uphill or downhill in the back, that's going to be off a little bit.

                                While I agree this isn't a perfect fit, I do think it's ok, as presented, but, as I've said on another board, I want to see this girthed up and preferably see someone sitting in it. There needs to be a "white pad" test. I do think the rear pads could be a bit flatter, but without seeing the weight of someone in this saddle, it's impossible to know if those panels will flatten out with weight. Some do, some don't.
                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Here's an idea for you. If you are not opposed to a synthetic saddle, you might consider the Wintec Pro Jump with CAIR panels and an adjustable gullet. I had one for awhile and found it to be a very balanced saddle that my horse found to be quite comfortable. Last time I looked, Trumball Mountain had one used for $595. It only comes as large as a 17.5 but it worked for me and I normally ride in an 18" (it has a pretty flat seat). The CAIR panels adjust to your horse, although there is also a small "pocket" in the panel into which a saddle fitter can put wool for a truly customized fit.

                                  Partly, which saddle you use depends on whether you are showing hunters or jumpers and what YOUR conformation is like. I, for example, have a very long thigh so I need saddles with an extra long or an extra forward flap.

                                  Other good quality saddles you could look for:

                                  Berney Brothers saddles often sell for $500 or less used. They are very well made.

                                  Albion makes a super all purpose saddle. I had an Original Comfort A/P for about 12 years that I loved. I believe I sold it for about $375 in the end.

                                  I'm not a huge fan of Stubben saddles in how they fit me, but they do fit a wide range of horses.

                                  Older Passiers are made to last and are often under $500.

                                  Ideal saddles are not that popular in the US, so sell for less than they would in their native England. They are very nice saddles.

                                  I've never ridden in a Thornhill saddle, but people seem to like them, too.

                                  You can tell from my list that my mission in life is to ride in as many different saddles as possible!

                                  Good luck with your search!
                                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Hey can someone translate for me the cm widths to the narrow-medium-wide?

                                    Also, this fits several of my qualifications... are they any good?
                                    http://www.heritagesaddlery.com/prod...sp?prod=B92202

                                    Thanks!

                                    ACC

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by acc View Post
                                      Hey can someone translate for me the cm widths to the narrow-medium-wide?

                                      Also, this fits several of my qualifications... are they any good?
                                      http://www.heritagesaddlery.com/prod...sp?prod=B92202

                                      Thanks!

                                      ACC
                                      There is no such thing as a cm-width translation as each brand is different. For example, a Stubbem 32cm is going to fit roughly like a Prestige 34cm. And there's even worse news than that--the tree point angle, panel shape, and the curvature of the front of the panel can mean that your horse wears two different sizes in two different models of the SAME brand of saddle.

                                      If you have not already taken the suggestion above to look seriously at Wintec, you should. It would be a good match for your mare's conformation, at least based on the little bit we've seen of her. You can probably find a used Wintec CC or Pro Jump for under $500. The CC in particular should be out there for around $400.

                                      If you insist on leather, it'll be a long, tough searching process in which you'll probably eat hundreds of dollars in postage. But if you are willing to send tracings to them for comparison, it may be worth inquiring about this saddle:
                                      http://www.pelham-saddlery.com/Merch...oduct_Count=34
                                      Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I third the Wintec suggestion, but wanted to mention that it's bargain basement time on e-bay right now- nobody is bidding so stuff is going CHEAP! Pickings are slim, but you could still find a deal!

                                        Comment

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