• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

How do you change someone's training paradigm

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How do you change someone's training paradigm

    Thinking in part of the abusive WP trainer or the Parelli post, but also of someone at my barn. How do you change someone'se fundamental beliefs in training?
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

  • #2
    you scrape them off the ground when their methods backfire....


    (I don't think you can, honestly. If it is 'believes' you are barking up the wrong tree!)
    Originally posted by BigMama1
    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
    GNU Terry Prachett

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
      you scrape them off the ground when their methods backfire....


      (I don't think you can, honestly. If it is 'believes' you are barking up the wrong tree!)
      This a whole lot more right than it is wrong.

      G.
      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, I can give someone a book but I can't make them embrace any of the advice inside, it's true. About all I can think of is if one were to work with the same horse and get much better results, very rare unless you are a pro trainer hired to do the job.
        Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
        Incredible Invisible

        Comment


        • #5
          OP You, genuinely, befriend them. Then, you conduct a line of inquiry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method You don't 'change their mind.' You ask them questions, and let them analyze their own answers.

          Be prepared. You will find along the way that you will be required to explain rhw why/what/how of your definition of 'right,' which may be a lot harder than you think.
          "Friend" me !

          http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

          Comment


          • #6
            Actually, this could be fun. I've done some time in WP and reining barns, but it's been a while. Maybe someone with more experience would volunteer to play the role of bad WP/rollkur dressage/whatever trainer, and we can all practice. Could be fun?
            "Friend" me !

            http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Well I know my training paradigm is a lot differently than the one I was "raised with".

              I come from a background of different tack/bits being the answer and drugging being a go to when that fails, and the general though of "when it goes wrong, it is the horse's fault!".

              What change ME was getting away from any trainer/showing for bit and having three goofy morgans to start.

              I do have a boarder whose mindset I want to change though. I really really like her as a person, and respect her as a rider, but as a "trainer" (not a pro, but trains her own) she seems adept at ruining work ethics. She isn't abusive, but pushes her horses hard and her idea of praise is just to say "good" and to try again (vs giving the horse a short break or moving on to something easier/fun). This has resulted in her horses ALL developing the habit of kicking out at her leg, rearing (small rears), some mild bolting, and general nervousness when ridden. her current horse is younger, and this training style is making him dangerous for me to lead out as well. (over reacts when he spooks, like he is afraid I will get after him for looking at something). Kicking out at her leg is also getting dangerous to others. When my students have ridden these same horses they find them to be very dead to the aids, but otherwise pleasant, and definately safe.

              I wish I could find a way to get her to slow it down and be softer so her horse had a chance to listen to lighter aids, but she seems to soften/ease up for clinics, and then go right back to her way after a few days.
              Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

              Comment


              • #8
                Good luck. Let me know when you change that persons mind. I tried, it didn't work, and I gave up because the person was too embarrassing to be around, to pig headed to listen to anyone, and too obnoxious to take advice. She continues to ruin horses, and the horses continue to rear and be bad because of her. She will never learn. She has been riding for over 20 years and hasn't changed yet, she has been peeled off the ground and she blames it on the bad horse.
                Derby Lyn Farms Website

                Derby Lyn Farms on Facebook!

                Comment


                • #9
                  There's none so blind as those that will not see.
                  Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lead by example.
                    "When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BEARCAT View Post
                      Lead by example.
                      Wise words...
                      Crayola Posse: Mulberry

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        leading by example is hard when someone only sees what they want to see.
                        Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          OP, if I read it right you are the BO? Then as a BO, you do have one way to do it, which is to drag her into the office and give her a speech using the phrases you had in your second post back there. It might, might, penetrate if you tell her she has 90 days to shape up or move out. Tell her she's a great boarder, you love her horses and you like what you see after a clinic but you don't like the fact that her horses as a group develop the same sorts of negative behaviors and the only common factor is her method of riding/training.
                          You do have the right as a BO to remove her from association with your barn name.

                          Will that change her method? Only if you can also offer to assist her in replacing her negative methods with something more positive, I mean face it she's developed this training style and probably doesn't think anything about it, or thinks that she's been cursed with the only group of horses that kick out and evade upwards. If she gets better after clinics then she may just need some eyes on the ground to tell her when she is backsliding, the fact that she does get better afte clinics is a good sign to me, it says she's willing to change, but she is reverting to what she knows after a period of time.

                          Of course she could also think you're a controlling beeyotch trying to blackmail her into paying for lessons too. I hope not.
                          Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                          Incredible Invisible

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CHT View Post
                            leading by example is hard when someone only sees what they want to see.
                            Quite true, but when someone sees that what you do gets the results they're looking for more effectively than what they're doing, it can go a long way towards amending attitudes.
                            Last edited by laskiblue; Jan. 13, 2013, 09:10 PM. Reason: left out an important word :-)

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Yes, I am the BO, and this is the ONLY person on my property who has not taken lessons from me/been in my program.

                              I hate confrontation. Particularly with someone I really like off the horse. Poop.

                              I was hoping more along the lines of mind control back ground music while she rides....
                              Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Swing leadrope slowly in front of her and repeat

                                "you are getting very sleepy..."
                                the NOT!! Spoiled!! Arabian Protectavest poster pony lives on in my heart

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by macmtn View Post
                                  Swing leadrope slowly in front of her and repeat

                                  "you are getting very sleepy..."
                                  Sounds too parelliesque...but yes, that is the kind of advice i wanted lol!
                                  Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Ride with her yourself on a young horse. Do a "good boy" and release (whatever you do, move onto another task, walk or stand, whatever). Do it very obviously every time you ride with her. That may be the only way she changes is if she follows your lead and sees the benefits. Otherwise... probably a lost cause, with horses especially people are very set in their ways.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      How many horses are we talking about here?
                                      Jigga:
                                      Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        She's a boarder and not abusive but you don't like the way she trains. You train everyone else on the barn except her and this bugs you.

                                        MYOB or, if it bothers you that much, make it a new rule (give some notice) that all boarders must be in your lesson program. Be prepared that she and others may leave.

                                        You can't change her thinking unless she wants to change.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X