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Cute ASB with lots of natural knee action!

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  • #81
    As much as I hate the artificial aspect to ASB's I too have to agree that ankle chains do not cause pain. They jingle around and tickle more that hurt. The shoeing and padding I don't care for but it is not as extreme as the TWH.

    Another fabulous breed that we insist on turning into something artificial.
    Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"


    • #82
      I understand completely that you don't like the modern saddlebred show horse. That's fine; that's aethetics, and many philosophers before us have discussed that. Saddlebred are gorgeous without any training, just like any other horse, and you're right, they don't need us to improve them. We do it for fun and sometimes, if we're lucky, profit.

      I'm not here to argue whether adding an artificial aspect looks good or doesn't look good. But I will uphold until I get kicked off the board that the only way to train a really good horse in any discipline is without pain. In this case, I invite you to put on some bracelets or anklets. Weigh them so you put on 4 ounces. Now spend a day with them on.

      You won't have bruises. You will become more aware of where your hands and feet are, because there's new things on them that move in ways you aren't accustomed to.

      Never mind that this is an exaggerated example; proportionally, a 130-pound human should be wearing a .5 ounce weight.


      • #83
        sunridge1- Of course the ASB community is going to step up and talk positively about our breed. Are there bad eggs? Yes. Are some people going to try to knock us down? Of course. But the point is, just because you have had some experiences that may have been negative does not meant that that is the majority.
        I have an ASB pony. He came to me with a show package on. Not super big or heavy, but enough to help him out. When I decided I was not going to show him at the time we took all his shoes and padding off. All of it. He was not lame for one day. In fact, about 6 months later he is still walking soundly and squarely. His hooves do not chip or crack, even after I ride or work him. That obviously did not take a "year of rehab". AND he is free to roam inside and outside as he pleases. His run is hard, packed lime stone... still no lameness or soreness.
        I'm not arguing that all horses are like that. My other gelding has crappy hooves. If I took all his shoes off he would break them off within a day, but that is just him-he has a weak hoof. But what I'm saying is that you can't possibly argue that all show horses or horses with pads/shoes are going to be lame until "rehabbed" back to health.

        It sounds as if you are upset that the ASB community on this board is stepping up to talk about the practices in the SS world in a sane, calm manner. Isn't that what breed promotion is all about? Or would you rather everyone on this board be completely against ASB's because you and a couple others had a bad experience and are now projecting that all ASB's are dealt with in a negative, non-caring manner?

        csaper58: Simply restating your opinion that "chains hurt" in all caps does not make you correct. If you're going to share your opinion, it may help more to find facts and evidence, rather than "yelling" at us with caps through a computer screen.

        And as always, the other ASB owners/trainers/competitors/lovers on this board have shared insight that is helpful in a respectful way. It is apparent they obviously love this breed.

        On a different note, if anyone is at all interested in any of the training or showing aspects of Saddlebreds there is a new book out by a great trainer, Smith Lilly. It is called "Saddle Seat Horsemanship." He explains it in detail and it's a good read.
        http://www.youtube.com/user/NBChoice http://nbchoice.blogspot.com/
        The New Banner's Choice- 1994 ASB Mare
        Dennis The Menace Too- 1999 ASB Gelding
        Dreamacres Sublime- 2008 ASB Gelding


        • #84
          saddlebreds before training video-

          Have been reading this with interest.. LOVE the breed for its athletisim, willingness to please, comfy ride etc... etc.... and have come back to them after years of owning other breeds that just could not duplicate that 'willing' mind....wanted that 'safe' feeling again and got just that in both my sporthorse type saddlebreds

          Anyway...found this fun little clip of a herd of 2 year olds raised outside being allowed to play in an arena...THESE babies are the 'before' of saddleseat training and to me represent the versatility of this breed- wonderful little athletes ...


          love the 'line-up' at the mirror to admire themselves!



          • #85
            Coming from and endurance riding background, I watch legs intently.

            Video's can be very damning. Slo mo is very beneficial.

            I do understand about club foots causing irregular gaits. Been there done that paid alot of money and heart ache in the process of learning.

            Sore muscles, lameness, training issues, conformational issues, or ?? Fixable or not? I am not willing to pay the $ these days for horses like that. Been there done that got the vet bills, and had to get an extra part time job to help pay for them. It is painful to see them going like that too.


            • #86
              Totally agree with Holly. My first was a saddlebred. One of the safest funnest most playful willing horses ever. ANd I am lovin this thread.

              There is no comparison between the way saddlebreds are treated and the walking horse crowd.


              Walking horses would be much improved if they practiced some of the saddlebred ways.

              They just have no idea how far off the mark they are with the stacked TWH.

              An IMO saddlebreds that look the best are under the tutelage of folks with a good dressage background. Those that work em from a "mechanical device" approach only are much more trappy in movement and stiff as heck than those who get them athletic in a traditional fashion.
              from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


              • #87
                Cool video. My 2 yr old is by County Treasure, so no doubt some of his 1/2 brothers and sisters are romping in that crowd. (holly's video)
                Last edited by Griffyn; Jan. 9, 2013, 04:33 PM. Reason: clarification


                • #88
                  What is on the back legs of this colt are rolled LEATHER straps!! They are light weight and cause NO harm WHATSOEVER to the colt. Think of it as you wearing a bracelet


                  • #89
                    Oh those crazy Saddlebreds -yep, wearing shoes in this one.


                    Warning, no shoes on this one


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by 3aday View Post
                      What is on the back legs of this colt are rolled LEATHER straps!! They are light weight and cause NO harm WHATSOEVER to the colt. Think of it as you wearing a bracelet
                      Or your horse wearing a bell boot. They don't weigh any more than a boot. Heck, an Old Mac easy boot is more likely to cause a rub than a chain or a strap.


                      • #91
                        I grew up showing in the local, unrated H/J circuit, and often the SS ring was right next to or close to our ring. I was always fascinated by that crowd b/c they were so different from my conservative hunter background.

                        While I don't agree with *some* of the training/management practices of the SS discipline, the majority of the time I see happy horses. Yes, they are revved up and highly animated, and yes, that is very much man-made.

                        But so is the dopey, lope-along look of *some* of the top hunters, mechanically going around the course and winning blue ribbons.

                        And I'll tell you what, if I had to choose between hoping on a doped-up WB and jumping a course or hoping on a ASB so wound up, its practically jumping out of its skin, I'd chose the latter any day and all day. And I'm not even talking about excitement here. I'm talking about safety.
                        Barn rat for life


                        • #92
                          Please don't turn this into the fallacy that I'm bashing the breed or the horse. You couldn't be more wrong. What I am bashing is the typical management practices used to get that LOOK consistently. To say that those practices are an anomaly and only the dregs of earth do it is another fallacy. Some of those dregs are at the top of the game.

                          So by all means get thee a Saddlebred, they are one of the smartest, kindest and beautiful of all horse breeds. A good one has athleticism second to none. Probably why I have owned them for 40 years.


                          • #93
                            Great post sunridge1 - I too have seen trainers go too far with getting the "look." I am sure there is no need for details. But a confident alert legged up horse beats a spooked scooting horse any day.
                            from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by sunridge1 View Post
                              What I am bashing is the typical management practices used to get that LOOK consistently. To say that those practices are an anomaly and only the dregs of earth do it is another fallacy. Some of those dregs are at the top of the game.
                              And see, we're saying that from our experience, these management practices are not typical. I'm not saying your dregs are not at the top of the game. I'm just saying that I'm sorry your experiences have been only with them and not with any of the many excellent Saddlebred trainers and horse keepers who consistently turn out and win with sound, happy, healthy, well adjusted and throughly trained athletes.

                              Because that is what my experience has been.


                              • #95
                                And once again, if anyone has any questions or doubts PLEASE get the book Saddle Seat Horsemanship by Smith Lilly. He even openly states a "fit, fat, sound" horse is a happy show horse. They are not made to be afraid and look spooked. They are encouraged to WANT to show off.
                                http://www.youtube.com/user/NBChoice http://nbchoice.blogspot.com/
                                The New Banner's Choice- 1994 ASB Mare
                                Dennis The Menace Too- 1999 ASB Gelding
                                Dreamacres Sublime- 2008 ASB Gelding


                                • #96
                                  Smith Lilly also goes over the various action devices (he's not a fan), and the use of "entertainment".
                                  Its a really good book.