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It is not the gun or the spur or the whip

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  • #21
    Uh huh. But the point of the whip or spurs is that as you train the horse, you eventually never need them. Want to strap 'em on forever? Then you are assuming something-- maybe that your animal isn't trained, that he isn't trainable, that your training isn't solid.

    So should we congratulate ourselves that we see other people as equally untrustworthy or limited?

    Indeed it is *not* the inanimate object that kills people. It is the person who feels that others are so unlike him and contemptible, that he should always be prepared to duke it out with them and win at all costs.

    All of the battle lines with respect to the gun issue have been drawn. The hard part I have with the pro-gun people is just how much they seem to dislike and not trust other people. That must include me, right? So I can't consent to agreeing that someone who thinks so little of me ought to hold the right to kill me. Duh, right?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

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    • #22
      Originally posted by mvp View Post
      Uh huh. But the point of the whip or spurs is that as you train the horse, you eventually never need them. Want to strap 'em on forever? Then you are assuming something-- maybe that your animal isn't trained, that he isn't trainable, that your training isn't solid.

      So should we congratulate ourselves that we see other people as equally untrustworthy or limited?

      Indeed it is *not* the inanimate object that kills people. It is the person who feels that others are so unlike him and contemptible, that he should always be prepared to duke it out with them and win at all costs.

      All of the battle lines with respect to the gun issue have been drawn. The hard part I have with the pro-gun people is just how much they seem to dislike and not trust other people. That must include me, right? So I can't consent to agreeing that someone who thinks so little of me ought to hold the right to kill me. Duh, right?
      The whip and spur are, indeed, things you want to "work out of a job." With a well trained horse they won't generally be necessary. BUT, and here's the thing, any horse can have a "monday." With a well trained horse there won't be many, but "few" is not "none."

      For most folks, who generally don't go "in harm's way," a firearm in proximate reach is probably not necessary. But, and here's the thing, should the need arise it will be a great need.

      Put another way, firearms are like tennis racquets; if you really need one then nothing else will do.

      This is even HR. Beyond sports like CMS or Mounted Pistol that require use of a firearm there are times when a rider can be confronted with dangerous situations. In some of the areas around us there is a real problem with feral dogs. People who can't keep Fido anymore and don't want to see him put down at the pound take him out into the country and turn him loose. If he survives he'll join up with other abandoned dogs and form feral packs. The packs prey on livestock and constitute a real danger to humans.

      In some places predatory wild life can be an issue. While most will avoid humans those that are aged or injured might let hunger overcome instinctive fear.

      Not all predators are four legged. 'Nuff said, there.

      Some "pro-gun advocates" are not the kind of folks I'd like to have over for dinner. But they are a distinct minority. They regularly make the news because they have loud mouths and make for good TV on the evening news. This is just another layer of "deception" brought to you by editors with agendas.

      Rules that make perfect sense on Park Ave. or Constitution Ave. or Michigan Ave. might not make any sense at all along Thunder Road.

      G.
      Last edited by Guilherme; Dec. 22, 2012, 05:06 PM.
      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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      • #23
        Originally posted by mvp View Post
        Uh huh. But the point of the whip or spurs is that as you train the horse, you eventually never need them. Want to strap 'em on forever? Then you are assuming something-- maybe that your animal isn't trained, that he isn't trainable, that your training isn't solid.

        So should we congratulate ourselves that we see other people as equally untrustworthy or limited?

        Indeed it is *not* the inanimate object that kills people. It is the person who feels that others are so unlike him and contemptible, that he should always be prepared to duke it out with them and win at all costs.

        All of the battle lines with respect to the gun issue have been drawn. The hard part I have with the pro-gun people is just how much they seem to dislike and not trust other people. That must include me, right? So I can't consent to agreeing that someone who thinks so little of me ought to hold the right to kill me. Duh, right?
        Ahh but the rider should earn the right to wear spurs and carry the whip by proving they have control of themselves and the tools. Hence the old saying, "earning your spurs". Unlike today when I observe far too many riders unable to control their use of the spur or whip.
        The old school instructors who taught me required us to always carry a whip, unless the horse had a major problem. Once we gained sufficient control we were required to wear spurs. Therefore our toolbox was full. Proper use of whip or spur is to subtly enhance the leg or seat. Granted there are the CTJ occasions, but those should handled as each appears and not always with whip or spur.
        Same for a rifle or gun, just because I have one it doesn't mean I will use it against another. Most are used for target practice, hunting and maybe some form structured shooting competitions. This has been true of practically everyone I know who has a gun/rifle, including some military and police.
        The gentleman makes a valid point, you don't to use "a tool" just because you have it, but it advisable to have a full tool kit.
        "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
        Courtesy my cousin Tim

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        • #24
          To keep this horse related, I'll tell a relevant story. I remember back when I was Hilda Gurney's working student, I rode a TB mare of hers in a second level class. I had the option to carry a whip and decided not to at the last minute and dropped it. That danged mare was behind my leg the rest of the ride and it was a poor test. Hilda watched and when I came out she asked me why I dropped my whip and I told her I was afraid it would make her spooky. She gave me a sharp look and said "you don't go to war without a gun do you? Carry your whip every test you can for any possible contingency."

          I would suspect that those who fear people with guns have no idea how many people around them are armed and cause no trouble at all..and in fact often stop crime and violence and get very little attention from the media when they do. The Clackmas mall shooting in Washington State was stopped by a civilian with a legal concealed handgun. He showed himself to the shooter while trying to get a clean shot and the shooter choose to kill himself with his next round after only killing two people rather than the bloodbath it could have been. Imagine if that armed civilian had not been there how many more he might have shot first? He obviously did not want to be taken alive so he offed himself once someone showed they could resist him fairly.

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          • #25
            We use a spur to extend your leg in a way to signal a horse without needing to move that leg.
            A properly used spur indicated to the horse what to do, is not to jab a horse to make it move.
            In fact, a horse poked with a spur may do anything but move on, but resist, bob up, kick out.

            A whip is there to reinforce your leg to move forward, after you teach a horse that is what it means.
            In racing, you use a whip mostly on the top of the hip to ask for an move, or waving it on the front on the side to keep a horse from drifting.

            Having spurs or whips on board are also like a seat belt, some times there only for that one time you may need it, most times not being used actively.

            Many western show horses have been trained to a specific and very refined use of a spur to signal different ways of moving, to the point that riding a horse without one can be confusing to the horse, the signals then so much more dull without spurs.

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