If you think horse slaughter is humane then you need to see this...

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equinelaundry

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Join Date: Oct. 23, 2001

Posts: 1709
#101

Feb. 9, 2004, 07:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by kt:
I understand the beef that you have with certain vets, but like you say I don't think vets are personally and solely responsible for these tragic neglect cases. I can't tell you how many owners I've come across who simply wouldn't provide the care the vet has told them the horse needed, whether it's laziness or stupidity or whatever. I've seen some neglected horses who have never even been SEEN by a vet, ever. We are ALL responsible, as boarders, animal lovers, even as human beings, to report this kind of stuff. As someone else mentioned, there aren't a whole lot of avenues in place at this time for vets to speak out. And I have often heard of vets (or just people, myself included) seeing a clear neglect case and not being able to activate any kind of rescue efforts or intervention due to uncooperation with officals.

It's complicated and emotional. I am sorry for going on about vets and the AAEP and the AVMA. Yes, there are bad vets. But please don't paint them with a wide brush. Don't make them a scapegoat. The entire system of equine welfare/slaughter/neglect is in need of a giant overhaul, but the burden does not rest on one party's shoulders entirely.

***
The hardest to learn was the least complicated.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yippeee!!! Thanks for the second chance!

Oh, I so know that this is not a vet's responsibility BUT, it is my sincere hope that if more could come forward, without retribution from collegues or anyone else, it would be a step.

First and formost is controlling the breeding. That comes with education and more people like oldladyonaTB. She's what the breeding world needs more of. People who will take responsibility from birth to death. Anything else seems NQR!

I am truly working on a network (could always use help !) consisting of caring, compassionate equine vets and farriers where the only interest is the equine - not the feelings of the owner.

______________________________
**If you don't rescue, don't breed. Simple solution to companion animal overpopulation.**

"Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

Ponies are cool!
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OldLadyOnATB

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#102

Feb. 9, 2004, 08:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by equinelaundry:

First and formost is controlling the breeding. That comes with education and more people like oldladyonaTB. She's what the breeding world needs more of. People who will take responsibility from birth to death. Anything else seems NQR!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the endorsement. Your words are kind. But in my opinion, it is apriviledge to be able to take care of these animals. I see it NO other way which is why I find the whole issue of neglect and abuse of any animal so unforgiveable.

There is an alternative to slaughter houses....that would be to recognize when your horse has no more quality of life....you pick up the phone and call your vet....and he comes over and euthanizes your beloved pet while you kiss him goodbye. That is the only alternative for me.

If I had EVER wanted to make money off my hobbies, I would NOT have started breeding dogs (there is NO way you can do it right and MAKE money) and I am certainly not going to attempt it with horses!

This debate is useful, informative and important. More importantly....thanks to OnTheBit for taking time to do something about it.

Elizabeth

After all these years, I have gotten back into horses. God has blessed me and Heaven help me!

Member of the OTTB Clique, Re-Riders Clique and the Thread Killer Clique.

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Albion

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#103

Feb. 9, 2004, 08:19 PM

Going back to my earlier example, though, how in the world are we supposed to educate people on the responsibility that goes along with breeding animals if we can't even educate humans on the responsibility that goes along with bringing a human child into this world?

My current SO has a precious 3 year old daughter - his ex girlfriend thought having a kid would, you know, make everything ok, produce the requisite ring, house with a white picket fence, and Golden Retriever. It didn't. That's irresponsibly creating another life to me. Now, before anyone jumps on me, yes, I realize it takes two, but there were (and still are) extenuating circumstances in that case - essentially, though, the above is what it all boiled down to. She didn't decide to have a child because it was the right time in her life & could support said baby, she had a child for other reasons (much like many people breed animals willy-nilly 'to make a profit', without thinking of the long term consequences and ramifications of their actions for the animals themselves). Many HUMANS don't want to take responsibility for their own actions & can't think of the long term consequences for bringing into this world & raising a child, much less when they see potential dollar signs involved (as in horses or dogs), no matter how misguided they may be.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid
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silver

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Posts: 1455
#104

Feb. 10, 2004, 03:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by equinelaundry:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Do you know the AAEP president supports equine adoption facilities by providing free care, or care for just the cost of medications? I'm just baffled as to how you can assume these things..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well he should. They were his livelihood and got him to where he is today. _if there were more vets that did the same we wouldn't be in this debate._ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
what is that supposed to mean! Vets make their livings from rescue centers? I hardly think so, most of the ones I know are more than happy to donate time. The truth is that equine vets work long hours all week to make a lving and I don't think anyone is in a position to claim that they are somehow "responsible" for abusive owners.

By your reasoning if doctors would just give people free medical care there would be no more child abuse. Right.......

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I have an huge chip for vets that breed. Nothing like watching a Pedigree commercial with a "top vet" and "breeder of...". This is sick. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What vets aren't allowed to breed? The most knowledgable people who can breed most economically, many of whom are lifelong horsepeople? But ti's somehow more irresponsible for THEM to breed than other people? That's irrational.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I also have a chip on MY shoulder for vets that allow neglect to continue. If all the members of AAEP are so wonderful how come there are so many horses in rescue. How come so many come in not registering on the body scale? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Again, how exactly is the AAEP supposed to stamp out horse abuse?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Lots of people are afraid of confrontation. I'm not and would love to sit at a round table with AAEP and discuss a few members, show them pics, let them hear the voice of the horse rescuer and horse lovers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I'm guessing that you might learn a lot.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Again, please get off my ass about AAEP. Reread my posts, all of them, then you will again read that <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But it's OK for you to bash them? Publicly? As someone who is involved in horse rescue?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I am against slaughter only because it lessens the responsibility of breeders. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No it lessens the responsibility of OWNERS. All this bashing the breeder is nonsense, they breed the horse and sell it in good faith. At that point it is the responsibility of the CURRENT OWNER to maintain the horse's condition. Blaming the breeders is the easy way out.

This kind of rant is the reason why many people, myself included, are not more involved in organized horse rescue/slaughter issues. I'm sorry if that insults those who are (and I'm sure you'll let me know about it). But honestly, do you expect vets, owners or breeders to read this and go "She's right! Lets send her organization some money!"
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DMK

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Posts: 24350

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#105

Feb. 10, 2004, 06:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by equinelaundry:
First and formost is controlling the breeding. That comes with education and more people like oldladyonaTB. She's what the breeding world needs more of. People who will take responsibility from birth to death. Anything else seems NQR!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the history of the world this has never happened. Hell, we can't even assure that parents will be responsible and humane to their own children, and we damn sure haven't come close to solving the problem of how to effectively care for these children once we decide the only alternative is to take away the child.

Safe to say this is pie in the sky wishing when it comes to animals, be they pets or livestock.

So what's Plan B?

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard

Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.
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equinelaundry

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Posts: 1709
#106

Feb. 10, 2004, 07:02 AM

Good God Silver - since you are throwing insults I'll bite, against my better judgement. You should hit print and read the whole thread, all posts, word for word, so you can keep up with everyone. You are a little behind in the times and again, are one of those people who just pick out a sentence or 2 and start blowing your horn.

Just when you think nothing can surprise you anymore I read your post.

Your comments about a vet being able to "breed more economically" are just mind-boggling.
OMG So as long as you breed economically it's OK? OMG. Well, ya left me speechless on that one. Surely this was said before the first cup of coffee.

[QUOTE]She's right! Lets send her organization some money!" [QUOTE]

What???? Where you got this is only known to you. I have no organization except a laundry business. What you can send me is your old blankets so I can donate them to rescues . I'll wash them, repair them, waterproof them & UPS them, all at my expense, to foward on to a rescue of your choice.

The only "help" I am asking for is for each state to have a group-from vets, farriers, chiro maybe, to volunteer to be available to donate their expertise and not be afraid to speak up. It's to help them do their job properly without having to worry about anything except the horse.

Vets need to feel safe enough and not have not worry about pissing off an owner, pissing off a collegue and be able to help in any way they can without fear. The vets(like anyone else) can only feel comfortable speaking their mind about a neglect or abuse situation if they have other professionals willing to stand up for the case also. I do not expect a vet to give up his whole career to save one horse (although he'd be my hero!). But I want him to feel safe in stating his opinion without retribution.

Again, this is NOT about bashing vets. Vets DID NOT become vets to get rich. They did it because they love animals. Practicing vets have to deal with suffering every day. As in the medical field with obvious malpractice....it is hard to stand up and speak out against a collegue....the stakes are quite high. **Notice I said "practicing vets" not a vet appointed to a position.

And yes, I do, in my rose-colored world, think EVERYBODY should give back - maybe even watch "Pay if Forward" occasionally to reinforce.

Again, this is a village effort that must start at the bottom.

There are a lot of rescuer's that have not posted on this and with the point getting lost in all this mess I can understand this.

______________________________
**If you don't rescue, don't breed. Simple solution to companion animal overpopulation.**

"Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

Ponies are cool!
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CrossedWings

Working Hunter

Join Date: Nov. 28, 2002

Posts: 690
#107

Feb. 10, 2004, 07:15 AM

I asked before but nobody seemed to see my question so here it is again:

Will eliminating horse slaughter stop or significantly lessen the amount of horse killing (by other means deemed inappropriate methods of killing by "us.")?

Quote for the week:

"Never under-estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." - Shirt Slogan

Quote for the week:

\"Never under-estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.\" - Shirt Slogan
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Ridge Runner

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Original Poster
#108

Feb. 10, 2004, 07:30 AM

Guess that depends on what you consider to be inappropriate. I think it's a joke to call horse slaughter euthanasia...mercy killing. Like let's send our beloved old horses to the slaughterhouse to stand in the blood and offal of other dead horses, in sight of horse carcasses, with noise and strange surroundings and some guy is bolting them to death and it takes 3-4 times to kill the horse? Yeh, that's merciful all right.

If slaughter is ended than yes, more folks will have to take responsibility as horse owners to put down a horse they can't sell or give away. If it costs them a few hundred $$$ than that's a cost of owning horses. Too bad. Don't own a horse if you can't afford to have it destroyed and hauled away or buried. JMO.

If you read that paper we have given links to you will know that there is little real basis for the argument that eliminating horse slaughter in this country will greatly increase horse abuse. Over 350,000 horses were slaughtered in the US in the 1980's which is down to about 40,000 now. There has been no increase in abuse with that great of a drop so why would anyone think a mere 40,000 more horses would make such a huge difference?

"No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill
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FairWeather

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#109

Feb. 10, 2004, 07:35 AM

kt, you missed Toof's point.
You said that horses will suffer because slaughter would not be available.
Toof's said that even with slaughter being available, it still happens.
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CrossedWings

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Posts: 690
#110

Feb. 10, 2004, 07:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I am against slaughter only because it lessens the responsibility of breeders. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No it lessens the responsibility of OWNERS. All this bashing the breeder is nonsense, they breed the horse and sell it in good faith. At that point it is the responsibility of the CURRENT OWNER to maintain the horse's condition. Blaming the breeders is the easy way out.

This kind of rant is the reason why many people, myself included, are not more involved in organized horse rescue/slaughter issues. I'm sorry if that insults those who are (and I'm sure you'll let me know about it). But honestly, do you expect vets, owners or breeders to read this and go "She's right! Lets send her organization some money!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Silver and well stated! I am in complete agreement that the OWNER is responsible. Taking your little box of stickers with a red circle and a line crossed through it and placing it on the heads of all "breeders" is a little presumptuous. There is no single "interest" group other than some "horse owners" responsible for these problems. It's on the back of the individual owner; some people do the slaughter route; others go for the starvation and neglect route, and the rest are just good owners! I find it so interesting that people point to ALL the breeders and say "they breed horses so it's their fault," automatically assuming that every breeder produces less than stellar animals unfit to do much more than stand as pasture ornaments. There are plenty of responsible breeders out there that have top of the line horses and I can guarantee you that those breeders do not stand in the same line as the local neighbor that decides to breed his/her psychotic mare to a two-time generation in-bred stallion from down the road so they can "have a baby." These are two very different "breeders." How can you coat "breeders" as being responsible and then look at breeding farms like Iron Spring, Dark Horse (Alla Czar), Craighead (All The Gold), and Tish Quirks farm (Just The Best).......

Really......

Quote for the week:

\"Never under-estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.\" - Shirt Slogan
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Dancing Lawn

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#111

Feb. 10, 2004, 07:37 AM

I've seen horses killed in a few different ways-slaughtered with a bolt gun, shot in the head, and euthanized, by a vet. And you know what? I still have nightmares about the first two. With a vet, it's done quietly, usually at home, in a loving surrounding, that isn't traumatizing to a horse. If you truly have horses because you love them, it's the only way to do it. No horse of mine will ever be sent for slaughter, or shot in the head. If the vet bill means I don't eat for a week, that's fine. At least I'll be able to sleep.

less hard work, more fine dining.
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If guys can do it, how hard can it be?

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Rocky

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#112

Feb. 10, 2004, 07:44 AM

Bravo Dancing Lawn....

My new barn mantra...has changed to when the h@!! is it going to warm up?

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kt

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#113

Feb. 10, 2004, 07:48 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by FairWeather:
kt, you missed Toof's point.
You said that horses will suffer because slaughter would not be available.
Toof's said that even with slaughter being available, it still happens.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I don't think I missed the point at all. I replied that it is pretty much impossible legislate certain things, like compassion and common sense and good decisions. What you can do is provide a choice and information to help them make a decision. No, equine slaughter does not equal a worldwide end to suffering horses. No one said that. But it does provide an alternative, and obviously many horses DO go that route, instead of suffering. Like I also stated, if the option of slaughter is removed, the choice is taken away, so more regulations are needed to ensure that the horse who previously would have gone to slaughter still has a decent quality of life (meaning, federal funding of rescue groups). Currently, the bill does not provide for that, among other things.

***
The hardest to learn was the least complicated.

***
The hardest to learn was the least complicated.
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equinelaundry

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#114

Feb. 10, 2004, 08:22 AM

Crossed Wings, if you are referring to me I did not say ALL breeders.

Everyone is entitled to their views however it's disturbing that a few posters will go to their grave passing the buck. So quick we are to throw stones. Hope you don't live in a glass house.

For those who are continuing to picking thru my posts for something else please note: I find it fascinating to note what you are quoting me on saying.

As far as the big breeders - Contucci is a beautiful stallion but not every one will follow in father's footsteps. It was just a year or so ago that the public bashing was for one brilliant stallion - seems a couple mare owners weren't happy and blamed some problems on the stud. Improving the breed is one thing but having 1000's of babies on the ground is another. I could undertand if someone could tell me WHY this is necessary. Because we can?? We gotta come up with something better than that.

Overbreeding-as long as it is available then mare owners thru-out the land are going to fulfill their dream and create the "perfect horse" right in there own backyard. Yes, I know - it is the mare owner who is buying the sperm. We could go round and round on this folks.

Bottom line is there are MORE irresponsible breeders than responsible - horses, dogs, cats, rabbits, just every domesticated animal. Uh, this goes for humans also.

As with a child you are supposed to be responsible for that child for life. Again, we have proven to fail at that also. But, who failed? Depends on who you talk to. Every person is going to blame another - human nature to not want to take responsibility for our actions. How is the heck is anything going to change if owners, breeders, vets, rescuers cannot communicate with each other. To take responsibility somehow has turned into a blame game. Not a good sign of where we are headed .

I do NOT to have any affiliation with animal rights groups, extremists, etc. I'm just a gal with an opinion.

Oops, there I am thinking of a better world again. Shame on me. BTW, my degree is in social work!!

______________________________
**If you don't rescue, don't breed. Simple solution to companion animal overpopulation.**

[This message was edited by equinelaundry on Feb. 10, 2004 at 11:32 AM.]

"Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

Ponies are cool!
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kt

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#115

Feb. 10, 2004, 08:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by equinelaundry:

For those who are continuing to picking thru my posts for something else _please note:_ I find it fascinating to note what you are quoting me on saying.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know if I'm going to make any sense or not, but let me try to explain where at least I am coming from when I zero in on certain specific statements in any post (I am not referring just to your posts, this is not an attack):

When you post a statement or belief in a post, you do not post it in a vacuum. Meaning, every statement you make is tied to all of your other statements, when it comes to how someone perceives it. It's part of your argument, and it's the context for everything you say. So even if you say just a couple of things that gets under someone's skin (no matter who is in the wrong or right), it affects how they see you, your point of view, and your argument. Every single thing you say either helps or harms your credibility.

In debate such as this, it is perfectly reasonable for people to focus in on aspects of your argument that they disagree with, especially when you have made somewhat generalized references to certain groups (even though you didn't MEAN all vets or all breeders, that is how it has come across initially).

Not trying to stir up anything, just wanted to give my input on why I think posters do this.

***
The hardest to learn was the least complicated.

***
The hardest to learn was the least complicated.
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equinelaundry

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#116

Feb. 10, 2004, 09:16 AM

Very well put KT!!
Hope there are no hard feelings. Kristie

______________________________
**If you don't rescue, don't breed. Simple solution to companion animal overpopulation.**

"Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

Ponies are cool!
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Nikki^

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#117

Feb. 10, 2004, 02:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Albion:
Going back to my earlier example, though, how in the world are we supposed to educate people on the responsibility that goes along with breeding animals if we can't even educate humans on the responsibility that goes along with bringing a human child into this world?

My current SO has a precious 3 year old daughter - his ex girlfriend thought having a kid would, you know, make everything ok, produce the requisite ring, house with a white picket fence, and Golden Retriever. It didn't. That's irresponsibly creating another life to me. Now, before anyone jumps on me, yes, I realize it takes two, but there were (and still are) extenuating circumstances in that case - essentially, though, the above is what it all boiled down to. She didn't decide to have a child because it was the right time in her life & could support said baby, she had a child for other reasons (much like many people breed animals willy-nilly 'to make a profit', without thinking of the long term consequences and ramifications of their actions for the animals themselves). Many HUMANS don't want to take responsibility for their own actions & can't think of the long term consequences _for bringing into this world & raising a child_, much less when they see potential dollar signs involved (as in horses or dogs), no matter how misguided they may be.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I feel for you girl! I really hate those who think having a baby will make everything go alright or that it will being attention to them. What a sick and twisted thing you SO's ex did to him. And then they go on welfare and we tax payers have to pay for everything.

But on the Horse Slaughter video. Ya, it's sad but it's better than them starving in a paddock to death (or a stall...er.. Melinda Stone!)
Look at how cows, pigs, goats, chickens are processed! Look at how Veal is made. MY cousin had a dairy farm and he said that he hated the veal part.
Hmmm....How about we slaughter the murders that are lifers in our prison? Me thinks Charlie Manson need to be made into dog food.

OK, but seriously, every part of the horse is used right? The mane, tail, coat, hooves, blood, organs etc. People do eat horse meat and since Mad cow and the Bird Flu came into light, well then the demand for horse meat will rise. I'm sorry, but if you want to band horse slaughter, then ban cow, chickens, goats, pigs and the rest.
Stop eating meat, using leather and all sorts of thing made from animals.

How about Human Population control so there won't be such a huge demand of meat? I got an idea:

You will get 30k cash and tax free from the Government if you get your tubes ties(male or female). But you have to sign a waver that you will not sue the Government if you decide later down the road to have kids. You cannot have kids of your own or adopt, period. And here's the bonus, if you are married and you both get "fixed" that's 60K tax free cash! Hey, sign me up!

Kioko

Look up your TB's bloodlines

"Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher
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Albion

Grand Prix

Join Date: Jan. 19, 2001

Posts: 2531

Location: MT
#118

Feb. 10, 2004, 03:07 PM

Thankfully, mama isn't on welfare - although she does reap the tax benefits of having a kid. My SO is a dutiful child support payer, every month - on time, and if his ex needs money for X, she gets it. There are some definite sick & twisted parts of her tactics, but that's life. My SO loves his baby to death, but can admit that having a child at that particular time probably WASN'T the best idea - but he certainly wasn't gunning for a kid.

I do think education is key in all of this - but I think we need to start with education on human pregnancy first. JMHO.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid
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relocatedTXjumpr

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Jan. 19, 2000

Posts: 6214

Location: Georgia
#119

Feb. 10, 2004, 03:15 PM

I have been staying away from this thread because it is not only heart wrenching to watch the videos, but because of the posts that can occur when people feel very pasionate about a subject.

The videos are disgusting! Plain and simple. I am shaking with fear, anger, and heart ache....I keep thinking of my two babys standing in that line...A place they both were very well headed. My stomach aches with what they would have gone through.

People eat horses in other countries, fine...who am I to say what you can and cant eat. Slaughter them in your own country and with HUMANE ways! A horse is not a cow, as a cow is not a chicken. Cows and chickens are fed VERY well and CARED for before they are sent off to slaughter...I live in a county that got its start from chicken farmsand Tyson is right next to the court house! I see these trucks day in and day out, I pass the farms everyday...the chickens are not starved or beaten. I have family in the cow business. These cows are fed and not beaten. They are not mistreated. What happens to them AT slaughter...I dont know. I do know that what is shown in these videos is not humane...it does not kill the animal instantly...if the killer has to keep shooting it 3 and 4 times...than IT DOESNT WORK well does it?!?! I'm trying to figure out why this is even an issue...this should not even be happening!
They offer leathel injection to killers because its fast,painful, and HUMANE...so this is what we do to an animal that has done NOTHING wrong?!?! That doesnt make ANY sense to me at all!

WE cant save them all, we just cant. But imagine how many we can save if they sTOP doing this! Or how many more souls could go to rest quietly and quickly by them doing this in another HUMANE way!

If you EVER have a chance, and a few extra dollars to spare, to buy one of these WONDERFUL animals, please do. It may only be one, but that one horse will be forever greatful to you! Why not pass up the $30,000 made show jumper to save a life and maybe have one of those rags to riches horses?!?! THINK ABOUT IT!

Now, I must go hug my horses and give them lots of kisses.

Everyone please dothe same!!!

B & B Sport Horses at Second Chance Farms

Member of the Paint Hunter Clique

http://community.webshots.com/user/ga_jumpr
Dont put the cart before the horse, unless he knows how to push it of course. ~~ Pat Green

Never Ride Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly
Way Back Texas~04/20/90-09/17/08
Green Alligator "Captain"
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rosijet

Advanced

Join Date: Sep. 25, 2003

Posts: 1093

Location: Denver
#120

Feb. 10, 2004, 04:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by CrossedWings:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I am against slaughter only because it lessens the responsibility of breeders. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No it lessens the responsibility of OWNERS. All this bashing the breeder is nonsense, they breed the horse and sell it in good faith. At that point it is the responsibility of the CURRENT OWNER to maintain the horse's condition. Blaming the breeders is the easy way out.

This kind of rant is the reason why many people, myself included, are not more involved in organized horse rescue/slaughter issues. I'm sorry if that insults those who are (and I'm sure you'll let me know about it). But honestly, do you expect vets, owners or breeders to read this and go "She's right! Lets send her organization some money!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Silver and well stated! I am in complete agreement that the OWNER is responsible. Taking your little box of stickers with a red circle and a line crossed through it and placing it on the heads of all "breeders" is a little presumptuous. There is no single "interest" group other than some "horse owners" responsible for these problems. It's on the back of the individual owner; some people do the slaughter route; others go for the starvation and neglect route, and the rest are just good owners! I find it so interesting that people point to ALL the breeders and say "they breed horses so it's their fault," automatically assuming that every breeder produces less than stellar animals unfit to do much more than stand as pasture ornaments. There are plenty of responsible breeders out there that have top of the line horses and I can guarantee you that those breeders do not stand in the same line as the local neighbor that decides to breed his/her psychotic mare to a two-time generation in-bred stallion from down the road so they can "have a baby." These are two very different "breeders." How can you coat "breeders" as being responsible and then look at breeding farms like Iron Spring, Dark Horse (Alla Czar), Craighead (All The Gold), and Tish Quirks farm (Just The Best).......

Really......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Granted, I haven't read every post thoroughly, but I don't remember reading about every breeder being irresponsible and careless. There are MANY good and honorable breeders who seek only to improve the breed and who take responsibility for what they do.

Then there are the others... I work with a rescue group that goes to local feedlots, finds QUALITY, HEALTHY animals and pays a bit over meat prices to save them. Occasionally, an older, less viable one will steal their hearts and they bring 'em home. They do the best they can.

Last fall, they took a trip up there (I can't go, too much of a weenie). In the yearling and younger pen were 40 babies. 20 or so were weanlings that came from a QH breeder who breeds anything with a uterus, keeps the best, and ships the rest to the killers.

My own newest rescue was a home bred quarter horse. The owners decided to liquidate the few horses they had and took the easy way out - local auction frequented by killers. I contacted the original owner to get Jett's story. She had NO idea that the guy who bought him was a killer. Needless to say, I gently educated her and told her Jett will have a loving home with us. This horse has NOTHING wrong with him. He's beautiful. Every knowledgable horse person who has met him shakes their head in disbelief that he was off to slaughter.

The rescue works very hard to find out the history on their cases. The stories are incredible. Disposable pets. Inconvenient animals. One horse, estimated to be worth $50,000 by his previous trainer, was sent away because he misbehaved at a show. The trainer had no idea the owners did this. She was told he was sold to a nice, new home. That boy now has a wonderful life with a girl who could never afford a horse like that on the open market.

There are days when I want to hide under the covers and pretend these horrors don't exist. But they do. And I'll do my part, however I can, whether that be rescue, education or fighting those who think slaughter, as it currently is performed, is OK.

Those of you that are unsure how you feel about the slaughter issue - go do some volunteer work at a local rescue. Get educated. That should help you take a position.

Sorry for the long post. This is a subject that will always be contentious, and I usually stay away from those types of topics. This time, I just couldn't...the hopeless, broken souls that we see weighed too heavily on my heart.

"Crazy is just another point of view" Sonia Dada

"Crazy is just another point of view" Sonia Dada
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