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Trying to find pervious owner

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  • #61
    Originally posted by mrs.smith View Post
    Such a sad face that old boy has. You can tell he has no idea where he is or what's to become of him. Jingles he finds a nice retirement home
    He found a nice home! Sounds like the OP is about as great of an ower as you can ask for and is super excited to have him. He not only dodged a bullet but it sounds like he landed in the Taj Mahal. THANK GOODNESS.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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    • #62
      Okay, let's see if I can obscure the scenario enough so that if my suspicions are incorrect, no one is harmed.

      We'll start by abbreviating Great Warrior to GW. Let's call the person I rehomed GW to, Lisa. My trainer we'll call Joan. Her trainer we'll call Deb, and this OTHER party we'll call Margo.

      Got it?

      Okay, GW was rehomed about 6 months ago to Lisa. She wanted a horse to be able to do a few things with, and she already had another horse that she had for 10 years (who we'll call C). At the beginning of November, C passed away unexpectedly and tragically. Really tragically. Like - horrifically. In the wake of C's death, Lisa was pretty distraught, and wanted a new show horse, but didn't have the money for one. When Joan contacted Deb, after we found out about GW, Deb told her that Lisa had traded GW + an amount of money for a show horse from Margo.

      Before Lisa had contacted me back, I found and called Margo. Margo indicated that GW was too much horse for Lisa, and that she had traded a very high value (5 figure) show horse for GW, and lost a lot of money on the deal (because she felt badly for Lisa). When asked when this all occurred, she indicated that it was right after C had died. She then said that she had GW for a week or so, didn't think that he would fit into her (show horse) program, and another trainer called her and gave her a sob story and she sold the horse for $500 to recoup her costs.

      My spidey senses were tingling a bit.

      She did not tell me who this other trainer was, but said that she would call her and call me right back. She *also* indicated that she had not seen the horse at New Holland, but that she goes there every Monday to pull one if she can. She also said that this was not the first time she had gotten a call like this, that another horse that she had sold was pulled from Camelot and a trainer friend of hers called her and said "what's this horse doing at Camelot".

      She called back about 5 minutes later to tell me she had left a message for that trainer but that she didn't think that she would hear back from her, because the message she left was angry, and that she was surprised because this trainer always answers her phone. (Anyone else's spidey senses go off? Mine did.)

      I didn't push her for the trainer's name, because by this point in the conversation my brain said...wait...Who would buy a horse for $500 and then try to flip it immediately at New Holland? I can't imagine that meat prices are *up* and while this horse is big, he's kind of raw-boned. I can imagine taking the horse to the sale, hoping to attract a buyer for the $800 mark, but then, wouldn't you put a "reserve" price on the horse?

      No, something is fishy there.

      At any rate, Lisa finally contacts me back and tells me what she knows. After her horse, C, died, she was distraught and she just wanted a packer show horse. She felt that GW would be happiest foxhunting. Somehow she got connected with Margo, who told her that her mother hunts, and that she would find a nice foxhunting home for GW. She then made the trade — $3k + GW for a mid 5 figure show horse with an old injury that doesn't allow him to do a ton of jumping.

      I blink twice at this point in the conversation.

      I've been out of the 'A' show world for awhile *but* MID 5 figures for a horse with an old injury that precludes a lot of serious work/jumping? Maybe I'm crazy but that horse wouldn't have been worth anything 10 years ago, much less today.

      And Margo is willing to trade for $3k + a horse that she has for a week then turns around and sells for $500 to some random person who has him for another week and then dumps him at an auction?

      So as I'm talking to Lisa, I mention that my suspicion is that Margo wanted to unload the horse she traded GW for pretty badly and that she saw an opportunity. A grieving (very nice, but vulnerable) lady who had just lost her true love horse, is a prime candidate for dumping a horse she can't sell due to the injury, and making out quite tidily in the process. $3k + whatever she got for GW is most likely in my estimation, worth more in this economy, than a show horse with a pretty much career ending injury. Note that Margo didn't mention foxhunting to me at all. Also, Lisa contacted a person that works for Margo, who indicated that the horse was doing fine, but that if she wanted details, she'd have to talk to Margo. My reply to Lisa was, well, yes, he's doing fine NOW.

      So, to sum up, could there be a third party, x, who Margo sold the horse to for $500? Possibly.

      But that makes zero sense given that he was reportedly found in the kill pen at NH. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though, and meat prices are up?

      I had thought that a possibility could have been that he was sold directly to Camelot *except* for the fact that the OP has a Coggins on him from NH marked as "to market". And he was wearing no shoes (when he ALWAYS wears at least fronts, and I had him in fronts and pads). Sure sounds like a kill pen horse to me.

      So, bottom line, I don't believe Margo. She was the only person who didn't immediately volunteer who she had sold him to, and she volunteered that she didn't think she would hear back. The inflated sale price of the show hunter, plus the timing of everything all adds up to Margo being the one who likely took him straight to New Holland to try to squeeze out a few more pennies out of, as she says, a loss she already took. Why she didn't try to sell GW is a bit beyond me although, as she said, he wasn't quite as fancy as some of the other horses she had. She didn't even list him on her FB page or reach out to her contacts, one of whom INCLUDES my trainer.

      So I will wait to see if person x shows up out of the woodwork. But my tingling senses tell me that Lisa is telling the truth (she was absolutely horrified to learn what had happened) and that Margo isn't.

      Either way, I'm not suing anyone. GW is safe and in a good place. My new concern is determining exactly what happened so that I know who NOT to ever deal with, and who to warn people about. As of right now, I'm thinking that person is Margo, but I'm totally open to the possibility that I am wrong.

      Comment


      • #63
        He found a nice home! Sounds like the OP is about as great of an ower as you can ask for and is super excited to have him. He not only dodged a bullet but it sounds like he landed in the Taj Mahal. THANK GOODNESS.
        That's not the same horse as the OPs horse.

        THIS is GW, and the OPs new horse. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...levant_count=1

        Comment


        • #64
          That is horrendous, and I'm sorry for you, and a bit sorry for Lisa, given that her heart horse had a horrific death. HOWEVER, the fact does not change that she screwed you over by not staying true to the contract. No matter what happened she owes you a HUGE apology and should be forever grateful that GW did not end up far worse off because that would have been entirely on her.

          I doubt you will ever know the entire story regarding Margo, but it sounds like she is shady enough to steer clear of despite that. You're right, a show horse for mid figures who can't really jump? WTF. I'm not up on the A Show scene, but that sounds NQR to me.
          "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
          "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey

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          • #65
            She did apologize, Event4, and she felt absolutely positively horrible. She understood that it would have been her fault, and was very very upset at this. She felt she had no reason NOT to trust Margo, and she was in such a vulnerable position. Given what I know about how her other horse passed, and the circumstances, I understand what she was thinking. I don't like it, but I get it. I lost a horse to a much less horrible circumstance (but any loss is tragic) and couldn't even think about the other horse that I had for a little while beyond throwing him food and making sure he had water. Given what I know about Lisa, I forgive her.

            Comment


            • #66
              I will add, though, it's much easier to be charitable when you know that the ending is good. I'm not sure how I would have felt had he shipped. Of course, I'd probably never have known.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                That's not the same horse as the OPs horse.

                THIS is GW, and the OPs new horse. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...levant_count=1
                He's beautiful! By the sounds of it OP got a great deal! I'm so happy that this one had a soft landing.
                "My biggest fear is that when I die my husband is going to try to sell all my horses and tack for what I told him they cost."

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                • #68
                  And THIS is what he looked like when he was rehomed to Lisa. http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11687104.jpg

                  I'll let the OP decide if she wants to share any more images of him now. I want to respect her privacy, as she has done a wonderful wonderful thing.

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                  • #69
                    OGP: You are a woman of character & class and have extended mercy & grace. May others follow your example.
                    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                      She did apologize, Event4, and she felt absolutely positively horrible. She understood that it would have been her fault, and was very very upset at this. She felt she had no reason NOT to trust Margo, and she was in such a vulnerable position. Given what I know about how her other horse passed, and the circumstances, I understand what she was thinking. I don't like it, but I get it. I lost a horse to a much less horrible circumstance (but any loss is tragic) and couldn't even think about the other horse that I had for a little while beyond throwing him food and making sure he had water. Given what I know about Lisa, I forgive her.
                      I'm glad she apologized & realized what position she had put the horse in, and I hope the horse she has works out for her.

                      I'm glad for you that your guy has such an awesome home where you know he'll be for the rest of his life. Would love for the OP to post pictures if she can.

                      When all is said and done, what a story!
                      "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
                      "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        certainly material for a dime novel!
                        Originally posted by BigMama1
                        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                        GNU Terry Prachett

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          OGP your story is sadly amazing. I do feel for Lisa, although I agree she should have contacted you first before she made her deal with Margo, and where was Lisa's trainer in all this? GW is a gorgeous horse and the OP is a very lucky person, it's wonderful that he found a good home.
                          My blog: Crackerdog Farm

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                            That's not the same horse as the OPs horse.

                            THIS is GW, and the OPs new horse. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...levant_count=1

                            Oh mybad... why is that horse posted on this thread then? I'm confused...
                            ~Veronica
                            "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                            http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              OGP, you're a saint. I am impressed by your calmness throughout all of this. Yes, it helps tremendously to know that GW is with the OP now and alls well that ends well. But cripes, I don't know that I could've held it together as well as you.

                              I have to say, I feel bad for all of the "Lisa's" out there who get duped/taken advantage of by shady people--which is what Margo sounds like. But my radar pinged a bit here with regards to Deb. Why didn't Deb step in? Maybe I'm missing something...

                              Anyway...nice work OP, sounds like you've got a gem.
                              A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                              Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                vxf, I think someone just saw an opportunity to try to find out that horse's identity given that their situations are similar. I'm hoping that they create their own thread to help find his previous person.

                                Buddy, I wouldn't nominate myself for saint-hood yet. The first post that I posted on this thread might have indicated my state of mind, which was to totally freak the freak out. A few glasses (read: a bottle) of wine, a good night's sleep, and piecing together the puzzle help, as well as knowing that he's safe and corresponding quite a bit with the OP.

                                I also don't know why Deb didn't step in, and I think Joan has had a conversation with her about that. It is possible that Deb thought the show horse was a better match for Lisa and thus decided to just let the trade go through. It's also possible that Deb felt quite responsible for what happened to Lisa's horse, and just wanted to do whatever it took to make Lisa feel better. I'm not sure.

                                Alagirl, it IS dime store novel material. No jumping Andalusians needed! That's why when I found out what had happened I was just...agog.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  what a story/situation! soo happy for GW! so sad for OGP, to have to go thru all the emotions!

                                  I hate how often this type of thing happens-- right now there's GW, plus the other horse mentioned on this thread, and just this am,see this on FB:

                                  Let me tell you...NOTHING - is worse than saving a horse from slaughter, rebuilding it's health, it's trust, and giving it to someone who you thought could only be the PERFECT home...only to find out a few short years later after producing beautiful foals - the mare once again lands in a kill pen. You never know do you? She was thrown away like garbage

                                  While I absolutely hate scrolling through the poor and pitiful horses destined for slaughter, because I just can't save them - I am glad that two weeks ago I did just that. And I saw her.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Wow, what a story. So basically, trainer Margo had an injured show horse who was probably worth less than $3000, and she saw an opportunity to unload him and get GW, who she could then unload for a meat price.

                                    It's a little strange that she wouldn't try to market GW as a hunter. The picture that OGP posted of him (before he went to Lisa) shows a beautiful, robust horse. Should we assume that his condition deteriorated while he was at Lisa's, so that he didn't look like much when she made the "trade"?

                                    I'd be mad as a hornet.
                                    "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      I wish I could say I found any of this all that "far out" but I don't. The past few years, I've been "lucky" enough to have ringside seats for many a horse being sent to New Holland.

                                      I've seen close to a dozen situations of people lying when they take/buy horses:

                                      "this horse is going to be my disabled son's therapy horse!"

                                      "I like to take racehorses, train them into show horses, and find them good homes."

                                      "OF COURSE I will sign your contract, if it doesn't work out, you'll be the first to know!"

                                      "This horse is for my daughter/wife, see her in the truck over there? She is so excited!"

                                      I've seen multiple horses show up at auction in HORRIBLE shape, from a young lady who claims to rescue them.

                                      Recently we saw a horse show up at NH who actually had been placed through a rescue/adoption operation, only a scant few weeks after his "placement" when the adopter "leased" him out to someone who took him to NH.

                                      I've seen names involved that are, if not "well known," at least "known" in show and hunting circles. People whose kids compete in pony races and many a person has bought a horse from. Packing horses off to NH or to cheap dealers when they don't have room or decide the horse can't be flipped quickly.

                                      And just about two weeks ago, in random chance, saw a horse I'd listed on CANTER that had been seen at New Holland. I unfortunately have no idea who bought him, no way to contact that person, who probably should know the horse has several pins in one knee and despite being big and gorgeous and seeming sound, should not be worked hard. The race owner contacted the nice people who gave him a "home for life" who said he was doing well and grazing out back. nice.

                                      My thought is anyone who thinks stories like this horse's are rare or off the wall or crazy just hasn't been around enough. What's rare is the happy ending, IMO. I hate, hate, hate that I've seen/heard enough of this that the story on this thread barely made me raise my eyebrows. There are a lot of people who suck out there.
                                      "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                                      My CANTER blog.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        I wish I were OneGrayPony's friend in real life -- she's a class act.

                                        Well done everyone (OP and OGP).
                                        https://www.facebook.com/SugarMapleFarm
                                        Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/peonyvodka/
                                        www.PeonyVodka.com

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                                        • #80
                                          caffeinated...that is so true.

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