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Lost contact with lessee of my horse!

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:

    I'm so sorry you had this trouble. Not bashing at all here, but if you ever leased again, would you be sure to have a contract? Do you think it would have helped, or not? I'm interested in your perspective.

    ESG....it is a LONG story, but I originally had a contract to lease the pony stallion to a group of ladies that included the person giving me so much trouble now. The other ladies backed out less than a year into the deal due to a lack of trust in this person. I did not know all the details at that time, but I do now. Honestly, in this circumstance, with this particular individual, I don't know that contract would make much of a difference. A contract is only as good as the integrity of the ones signing. In my other dealings, every I has been dotted and every T crossed, though I recently sold a pony to the other side of the country with no bill of sale, they wired the money and I transferred the registration

    And BTW, the leasee in my case didn't have a choice as to whether or not to be obstructive; she didn't own the horse, admitted it, and we had a signed contract detailing the exact circumstances under which she had possession of my horse to begin with. Not to belabor a point, but that's why I never do business except with contracts. Just keeps everyone on the same page. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If one chooses to be obstructive, he/she can. I have registration papers in my name, (with photos and these ponies are microchipped), but my dilemma is that now this person is claiming some sort of lein on my ponies, though her "payment" for keeping my ponies was that she got the foals - needless to say, there are several foals and she has made sure they are registered in her name. I believe she is probably hoping to drag things out so that the legal fees become higher than the pony value, and I will just give up and give them to her.

    Julie
    www.caspianpony.com

    Comment


    • Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for your response. What a mess. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

      And people wonder why I won't let a horse go out on trial.................
      In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
      A life lived by example, done too soon.
      www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

      Comment


      • Well? Any updates?

        Thanks for everyone making me feel better that I didn't lease Jeff out while I am in Japan. I had wanted to do it so he would get some work. He has some stiffness in his joints from age and I think it would be better if he could be used lightly. But now I am sooooo glad I didn't! He can suffer a little stiffness until I get back and he does have a really large pasture he is out in every day so it's not like he is stuck in his stall all day.

        Comment


        • Several peoepl have posted details about leases gone bad.

          But they CAN work for the benefit of all involved. I have been on both sides of very productive leases. I have been the one who leases (without a contract) and the owner (with a contract).

          The primary purpose of the contract is to make sure expectations are spelled out. Hopefully if everyone understands what is in it, it will never need to be used as a "legal document".

          But I won't lease out a horse more than an hour away, so I can go and check on him. I call regularly for updates. And I have a clausee in the lease that says I can take him away IMMEDIATELY for abuse, neglect, or mistreatment.

          I am very sorry for all the people who have problems, but I just wanted to point out that the leases that "go bad" are probably a small minority.

          Janet
          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
          Janet

          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

          Comment


          • Shiaway, I leased out other ponies to other people with no problems at all. I would do it again, but I will not ignore my gut instincts in the future. I overlooked A LOT with this person, and in hindsight, there were all sorts of signs. Always listen to that "little voice" in your head - I didn't - and it is costing me.

            Get references......if I had known then what I know now, I never would have become entangled with this person. Several people (strangers) have contacted me - totally out of nowhere - to tell me of their unpleasant dealings with this woman. This is the sort of digging I wish I had done BEFORE rather than AFTER.

            Julie
            www.caspianpony.com

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              Hello all- just a quick update before work. It just gets worse and worse. No one can find this woman. She's "staying with friends", has no phone in her name, no house in her name, no nothing. PI's don't want to get involved (too small potatoes or "looking for a horse??"), the sheriffs all agree it is a civil matter--no crime has been committed like others have said. The vet hospital has her info, but their attorney will not release it without a subpoena, which I can't get until I have a crime committed, which I can't prove until I find her. We are still at square one, but I have contacted my attorney again and he is going to contact the vet's attorney to see if they will release the info anyway.

              I have a contract, I don't know if she has violated the terms since I can't find her or my horse. If she hasn't moved him, which is a possibility, and he is in good condition, then the terms haven't been violated. But, I am pretty sure the contract is totally blown by her. I will find her. I will get my horse back. She will suffer for causing me this much anguish. My attorney will make it so.

              You can send a kid to school, but you can't make 'em learn!
              Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

              Comment


              • I have also had good leases as well. This one was from deepest depths of hell, however.

                My Photo Albums

                "When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes."
                -- Shakespeare, Henry V
                Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will. - Gandhi

                Comment


                • If you have a general idea of where this woman's horses may be, can you drive there and ask for directions, saying you are supposed to try out a horse and left your directions home? Go into a gas station or convenience store, or feed store, and start off by saying "I don't know if you can help me out, but I'm supposed to meet Ms. X at her place, and I left my paper home that had the directions on it and her telephone number. Can you tell me where it is?"
                  Man plans. God laughs.

                  Comment


                  • JUst a thought - your contract has an address for where the horse is supposed to be stabled, correct? Does it have a provision that you can go and visit to check the state of your horse whenever you want? (Every lease I ever sined as a lessee had one). If so, can you go to that barn or call that barn where the horse is supposed to be to investigate and find out if the horse is there or not?

                    Also, on what date is your lease expired? IF the lease has expired, she is in violation and you should be able to go through the courts to get an order for the return of the horse.

                    Just an idea. Keep up updated! Good luck!! *fingers crossed*


                    Comment


                    • This thread is a very good reason to ask for a deposit when you lease out your horse and he lieaves you or the barn where you board him. Specify in the contract that the horse is to be returned to you/your barn by X date, or the deposit will be used in recovery of the horse.
                      Man plans. God laughs.

                      Comment


                      • Ok, here's a thought. How about posting "Have You Seen This Horse?" flyers everywhere. Don't give any info about why you want him found, just put a good picture of him up, or several pics, plus your name and address, and possibly a "last seen at..." line. Maybe offer a reward?

                        If the woman is just a ditz or has gotten herself in a 'way off the deep end' situation this might give her an out. If she's sold him (heaven forbid) someone may say 'hey that's my horse!' I'm assuming here that she's not going to do anything drastic like panic & dump him at an auction, though putting a flyer up at a local dealer's place (if there is one near) isn't such a bad idea either. And sending one to all the local vets too.

                        Good luck, this has got to be such a nightmare for you!

                        Comment


                        • I wonder if the stolen horse sites would be willing to post about this?
                          Do you have pictures to create a flyer with?
                          3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081 284811174502841027019385.....

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
                            But they CAN work for the benefit of all involved. The primary purpose of the contract is to make sure expectations are spelled out. Hopefully if everyone understands what is in it, it will never need to be used as a "legal document".
                            <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            I want to second this!! I was am awesome lessee (if I may toot my own horn here!) Because I never had the opportunity to own my very own horse I treated my two leases like I owned them. I treated them no different than I treat my Finnegan. In fact when I felt that the horse warranted veterinary attention and the owners didn't agree (anything from his teeth bothering him, field lacerations that needed staples, large abcess between the jaw bones, etc) I would call the vet myself and pay for it just to know he was happy, healthy and comfortable.

                            So my point is that good lessees are out there. I don't want people not to trust anyone ever again because leasing got me back into the horse world on a level I'd never experienced.

                            ~Bev

                            -----------------------
                            Finnegans Wake
                            1992
                            Irish Sport Horse x Hanoverian
                            16.1hh
                            bay
                            -----------------------
                            Finnegans Wake
                            1992
                            Irish Sport Horse x Hanoverian
                            16.1hh
                            Finn's photo album http://community.webshots.com/user/finnegan24100

                            Comment


                            • I think the key to a successful lease is involvement. If I were to lease out one of my horses, it would never leave the barn. I'd still be involved in the daily care of the horse and have access to it whenever I liked.

                              I don't understand those who let their horses go for extended periods of time sometimes hundreds of miles away. I don't care how much money someone pays for a lease, as it isn't a guarantee of proper care of the horse. In fact, sometimes the opposite is true. Many of those who lease the higher dollar (and $20K/year lease is high dollar to me) horses consider that "throwaway money" and the horse sometimes ends up being less well treated than they would in a less fancy, less competitive setting. I'm not saying this happens all the time, mind you...............just a whole lot more often than it should.

                              Just my experience..................
                              In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                              A life lived by example, done too soon.
                              www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                Hello, another pre-workday report. I can't say much about the situation, because a STATE INVESTIGATOR is investigating the case and the person! I have been working on this with a large veterinary hospital in the town the horse was/is in, and despite the woman's attempts at subterfuge (pathetic attempts may I add), we may have caught her in fraud and theft. Perhaps not just of my horse, either. Anyway, we may have a criminal case on our hands, and I don't want to queer the case with slippage of information. Keep your fingers crossed! I should hear some news today.

                                As an aside, keep all your horse's veterinary records. Have a detailed description written of him by a vet or authority. Have photos taken of horse from every angle, showing any unique markings. (God help those with a plain bay!) Keep bill of sale. Have a good working relationship with your vet(s). If I did not have these things, I would not be giving you any good news. My guy also has a unique physical feature that is working in my favor, too.

                                I let you know more as I learn it!

                                You can send a kid to school, but you can't make 'em learn!
                                Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

                                Comment


                                • WELL! This seems encouraging. Thanks for the update. Do keep us posted-all fingers are crossed for a happy ending..

                                  Comment


                                  • We will all keep positive, low profile thoughts.

                                    Every case like this where someone with a terrier attitude to stay with it,like you.....


                                    Well we all win by learning lessons and getting one scumball scraped up off the road. I hope all turns out well and that you regain your friend and we all loose the looser.

                                    _\\]
                                    -- * &gt; hoopoe
                                    The ancient Greeks did not write obituaries. They only wanted to know if you had a passion.
                                    _\\]
                                    -- * > hoopoe
                                    Procrastinate NOW
                                    Introverted Since 1957

                                    Comment


                                    • keeping my fingers crossed! It sounds like things are finally working in your favor. Good luck getting your boy back!!

                                      Comment


                                      • What a nightmare!! Hope you find them both soon! I have my older horse leased out as well, to what seems to be a perfect situation, and this is a strong reality check for me to never get too comfortable. Best of luck!!

                                        where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?
                                        where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?

                                        Comment


                                        • That is great news!! I hope it only get better!!!

                                          ~Steph

                                          *Tapestry* 2000 Dutch WB mare by Contango
                                          Originally posted by JSwan
                                          Prove it....Otherwise, you're just coming off as a whackjob.
                                          Founding member of the "Not too Klassy for Boxed Wine" Clique

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