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  • Lots of nice or almost nice horses get in this situation every day. This guy is a filter pre-sale, then there are people that buy them at the sale, then there are people who buy them out of the kill pen, then there are people who buy them at the feedlot and then there are the slaughterhouses.

    Think of it like an ecosystem in the ocean. Every balanced system needs the sharks and big fish, then on down to the creatures that live off the whale carcasses etc. that float to the bottom of the ocean. If they didn't exist, the whole system collapses, and it's the same way with the horse industry.

    There's room for (and it's important to have) all of these pieces. It's illogical to design systems that only work "if people are better" because 10,000 years of recorded history have shown that people aren't and you can't force them to be. It doesn't work. Best to design systems for how people actually are that work.

    Comment


    • [QUOTE=OneGrayPony;6692121]
      There's room for (and it's important to have) all of these pieces. It's illogical to design systems that only work "if people are better" because 10,000 years of recorded history have shown that people aren't and you can't force them to be. It doesn't work. Best to design systems for how people actually are that work.[/QUOTE]

      The sad (and well-expressed) truth.

      Comment


      • ***RASIES HAND****

        So I have a question....

        So when ole Dobbin the grey gets transported to Mexico they send him back because he is grey? Since when did slaughter plants not like greys...???? hMMMMM?
        Draumr Hesta Farm
        "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
        Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

        Comment


        • It was my understanding that the KB's know this, and they won't buy them. It's not like the KB's are new to this game, and don't have established contacts/don't work for the plants.

          But again - this may be a myth. Or it may no longer be the case since now they are going to Mexico - which was not the case a few years ago.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
            What does he do with the horses that don't work out?
            What do most people do with horses that don't work out? In his ad he says " we will PROBABLY come and get it" I imagine that if he comes out and the horse is a crazy nut he can't resell with some work he won't take it. You guys are never satisfied.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Nootka View Post
              ***RASIES HAND****

              So I have a question....

              So when ole Dobbin the grey gets transported to Mexico they send him back because he is grey? Since when did slaughter plants not like greys...???? hMMMMM?
              Greys can be slaughtered and their body used for anything except human consumption. But since slaughter for human consumption pays more per lb, many kill buyers try to avoid those horses that bring less per lb, since they cost the same to feed and transport.

              Comment


              • I would guess "and also not be as profitable to process".

                Comment


                • What do most people do with horses that don't work out? In his ad he says " we will PROBABLY come and get it" I imagine that if he comes out and the horse is a crazy nut he can't resell with some work he won't take it. You guys are never satisfied.
                  If you can tell that from a first glance, then you're a better buyer than even Olympic riders.

                  Sometimes horses appear to work out and don't.

                  Sometimes that can take months. Or years.

                  Sometimes a horse looks promising, and isn't.

                  Happens every single day. If the horse can be resold in a different discipline, it is. If the price can be dropped, it is. If no one buys it at that price, the price continues to be reduced. He's not going to keep one that can't be bought on the payroll, the only suckers who do that are sappy people who don't care about making a living.

                  If you're in this business and you make money doing it, you *have* to make hard decisions. Euthanizing horses doesn't pay (unless you're the vet). Selling to the KB does.

                  Why is this so hard to understand?

                  Comment


                  • [QUOTE=MoonoverMississippi;6692126]
                    Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                    There's room for (and it's important to have) all of these pieces. It's illogical to design systems that only work "if people are better" because 10,000 years of recorded history have shown that people aren't and you can't force them to be. It doesn't work. Best to design systems for how people actually are that work.[/QUOTE]

                    The sad (and well-expressed) truth.
                    As long as you have that lucky coincidence that Europeans are willing to eat our carcasses.
                    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

                    Comment


                    • As long as you have that lucky coincidence that Europeans are willing to eat our carcasses.
                      If it weren't the European's, it'd be the Chinese. Or the Indians. Or...

                      Look, it's ALSO completely illogical (and horrifically wasteful) that we would let people in this or any other nation go hungry because we don't want to kill the pretty horsies...that we're going to kill anyway. It just doesn't make sense.

                      I've read the arguments and they don't fly with me, particularly the ones that mention things like "horses trust people therefore we shouldn't slaughter them". Oh bull puckey. Have you ever seen a kid raise a show steer? I have - and those stupid things end up trusting people, and we eat them too. In fact, were I to guess, those show steers have a heck of a good life, and a heck of a good death.

                      Were I president of the world, I'd design a system of quarantine and local slaughter plants so that the medicines could leave the system, the horses could get fed properly and then slaughtered humanely. Win-win.

                      Of course, I'd never campaign for that - too much money required and I'm horse-poor.

                      Comment


                      • Growing up there were a lot of folks like Daley who bought or traded horses all of the time. Some went to lesson barns, others to private sale, others to rental strings and yes some to meat. I learned early on the ways of the horse world and was told repeatedly that not all horses can or should be saved. I met a few of those horses that were better served by being sent to monitored slaughter, like we once had in the US, or to be put down. They.were.flat.out.dangerous.to.humans.and/or.themselves.

                        Daley's ad is OK. Anyone willing to give their horse to someone they don't know for free is unwilling or unable to maintain upkeep for said horse.

                        Agree with MoM, the normal avenues are overstocked now and it will only get worse as through the winter. Also some of these folks are unable to find a vet to put a seemingly sound, sane working horse down just because the owner lost interest or can't afford to feed it.

                        If you don't like his ad or his business plan, then tell him. Don't expect him to give you a lot of time though. He is a throwback to old school horsemen and businessmen who value their time greatly. Each day they move their business, life and finances forward. If you are a client, (buyer or seller) then you receive attention. If not, then move aside for someone who is interested.

                        I learned many great lessons from men and women who think this way. Maybe, on second thought, you should contact and listen to him.
                        "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
                        Courtesy my cousin Tim

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                          If it weren't the European's, it'd be the Chinese. Or the Indians. Or...

                          Look, it's ALSO completely illogical (and horrifically wasteful) that we would let people in this or any other nation go hungry because we don't want to kill the pretty horsies...that we're going to kill anyway. It just doesn't make sense.

                          I've read the arguments and they don't fly with me, particularly the ones that mention things like "horses trust people therefore we shouldn't slaughter them". Oh bull puckey. Have you ever seen a kid raise a show steer? I have - and those stupid things end up trusting people, and we eat them too. In fact, were I to guess, those show steers have a heck of a good life, and a heck of a good death.

                          Were I president of the world, I'd design a system of quarantine and local slaughter plants so that the medicines could leave the system, the horses could get fed properly and then slaughtered humanely. Win-win.

                          Of course, I'd never campaign for that - too much money required and I'm horse-poor.
                          I'm not so much against horse slaughter, per se. I know for a fact I could not send one of my horses to slaughter and I am not going to pretend otherwise; if I had to get rid of my horse tomorrow, she would get put down. She is an ideal candidate (old, 15 hands, healthy weight/maybe a little overweight, unsound for riding) for the pipeline and I'm not chancing that happening. But if other people want to send a horse and it's done humanely, with humane transport, I don't necessarily disagree with it. As it currently is, the horses have anything but a "heck of a good death." But with a huge overhaul of the system, if it could be done without stressing or hurting the horses, I would be ok with it.

                          ETA - I don't fully support slaughter either though - I do think it's a convenient out for people to overbreed, backyard breed, etc. I wish breeding could be regulated as well. I would rather there be as close to "just enough" horses as possible...dreaming, I know.

                          Not trying to change this to a slaughter debate, just stating I only said what I said re: this Craigslist posting because there may be other people that feel the same way I do regarding my personal horse, but do not know horse slaughter is a possible fate for their horse if they give it to a flipper and it does not work out.
                          Last edited by shiningwizard255; Nov. 28, 2012, 06:02 PM.
                          *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05

                          Comment


                          • I think my horse may have went though this guy or a guy like him... There is a broker from the northern Va that buys them cheap and sends them to auctions on his way north and also stops at the brokers on the way. If it is him he has/had her papers and would I would very much like them. They guy I bought her from would not give me that brokers name. I was told mine went though a professionals auction so the story fits pretty well... Does anyone have his phone number? PM it to me if you do please.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                              Lots of nice or almost nice horses get in this situation every day. This guy is a filter
                              Yup, that's exactly it. Of course he runs the ones that don't work out through an auction, and probably quite quickly too - remember, he's not interested in waiting for am under-4 to grow up or in feeding up a thin but otherwise sane and sound horse because it'd take too long and be too expensive, so he's certainly isn't going to wait for months of hoof rehab to see if an unsound horse will turn out ok in time.

                              He's a first level of filter. The ones that can be flipped quickly get a second kick at the "good home" can, and the rest go to auction, where they'd probably have ended up anyway in due time.
                              Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                              Comment


                              • Eeek, I took on a grey, unsound horse. For free! And fat. He was fat when I looked at him, when he waddled down the truck ramp three weeks later he was so fat he made the usual fat horse look skinny.

                                That was six years ago. He's putzing around in my paddocks happy as. Slimmer. And sound. Win win

                                There is a guy quite local to me that is a meat man. He has a bazillion nice horses get sent to him. He is a horse man and has a good eye, and best of all he knows what should not be sold on. He gets foals right through to oldies, and in all conditions, some of them are pitiful. He takes pics of them all and sticks them up on TM - the more pitiful they are the quicker they seem to sell. He doesn't put big prices on them, and seems to be pretty negotiable on his advertised price. I don't know if he advertises for horses or not.

                                Some of the other meat guys do advertise. For the most part you'd have to be really, really, really dumb to not know they are buying for meat. In the old days it was the dealers who were misleading. They came out with stuff like "oh it's for my niece to ride out on the beach" blah blah blah. Sell to him then very shortly it was in the T&E, usually younger and jumping higher than it actually had with big $$$ on it.
                                where am I, what day is it, am I still having a good time?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by englishcowgirl View Post
                                  I think my horse may have went though this guy or a guy like him... There is a broker from the northern Va that buys them cheap and sends them to auctions on his way north and also stops at the brokers on the way. If it is him he has/had her papers and would I would very much like them. They guy I bought her from would not give me that brokers name. I was told mine went though a professionals auction so the story fits pretty well... Does anyone have his phone number? PM it to me if you do please.

                                  It is in the tread posted earlier in this. It has to do with his stallion Silvo
                                  Draumr Hesta Farm
                                  "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                                  Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

                                  Comment


                                  • I know plenty about Tim Daly. I would not send a horse to him. I would not train with him, and I certainly would not date him. I would also not tell him how much money I had and put him in my will...
                                    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
                                    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

                                    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      Wow. I posted this ad because it just seemed so blunt.

                                      I had no idea that I actually knew and had done business with it's author.

                                      It has been years, but I found Tim to be a straight shooter and we could not have been more pleased with the horse that I helped my friend buy from him. He had a barn full of very nice horses. Have run into him on several other occasions over the years, at clinics and shows, and he has always been welcoming and very congenial.

                                      It is a small world and apparently it's getting smaller every day...
                                      * trying hard to be the person that my horses think i am

                                      Comment


                                      • What the? I'm pretty sure dating him, telling him how much money you have or putting him in your will is not on subject at this point......

                                        I will raise my hand and say I also know Tim and have never had an unpleasant feeling about him at all. He's super honest and has always been kind to me and my husband as well as my child.
                                        Is he bluntly honest? Yep. I'd rather that then someone who's shady and I can't read at all.....

                                        Comment


                                        • I've met Tim only once, but my experience was positive. I'd read the Silvio thread and had heard other people talk about him, but I kept an open mind and I genuinely liked him. (My friend went to look at a horse he had and I groomed his very sweet and ancient donkey while they trekked out to the field to get the horse.) He definitely was very straightforward, but as others have said, there are PLENTY of sketchy horse "trainers" and dealers in the NoVa area that I would never deal with, based either on my own experiences or the fact that a lot people will just clam up when the person's name gets mentioned.

                                          Tim very accurately represented the horse he had for sale, which is a far cry from some dealers I know who basically sell clueless clients overpriced, untrained horses or ones with physical or mental issues, claiming "this horse walks, trots, canters, goes English or Western, jumps, and trail rides." Then, those same dealers who claim to care so much about the horse and act so nice to the clients, turn around and blame the buyer when the buyer comes back to them later on (sometimes within days) saying that they're having major problems with the horse, usually because the horse was inaccurately represented. THOSE are the people who truly repulse me.
                                          "I was not expecting the park rangers to lead the resistance, none of the dystopian novels I read prepared me for this but cool."

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