• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Does your trainer restrict or otherwise stipulate your ability to ride your horse?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    It's just all about the money....whenever you combine big $$$ and horses = there'll be hi-jinks, craziness, and big business culture. The sad part is that it DOES make $$.
    Horses + big money = problems for the horse!

    Comment


    • #22
      Personally, I wouldn't do it. But there are people who enjoy watching their horses win under a well-known trainer... especially in the breed rings. And in both dressage and H/J we hear allllll the time about trainers who encourage their clients to buy horses that are beyond the clients' skill level, and then the trainer takes over the ride on an often very high quality horse that the trainer could not afford to buy. It's a passive-aggressive version of the same thing.

      That said... some years ago, I put my mare in full training because, well, as a pair we were a mess. I was afraid to ride her. Coincidentally, about a week after I put her into training (and after riding her twice in very brief lessons), I had my bad wreck (different horse, different location) and couldn't ride at all for about 6-8 weeks. My mare really blossomed during that time when she was only ridden by an expert, and because I was hurt, when I did start riding her I had to ease back into things very slowly (e.g. started with several weeks of getting on her after the pro was done to walk her and cool her out.) But this was a temporary and very accidental arrangement!
      You have to have experiences to gain experience.

      1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

      Comment


      • #23
        I think there's a big difference between owners choosing to have this sort of situation (which they are welcome to if that's what they prefer - and it's great for the pros, too, I'm sure!) and trainers making every student feel as if they don't get to ride.

        I'm glad my breed show experiences weren't like that! Locally I only know of one trainer who limits riding by clients and that's in mostly APHA showing. In that case, I believe the "training" put on by the trainer won't withstand rides by someone else because it's not sound training. I suspect that's the situation in many cases. A distant owner who enjoys having the horses and has a good relationship with a trainer who cares for them is welcome to learn only to sit on the horse and pose - but a trainer who is forcing codependency on clients and intentionally not teaching them to be competent in their own right should be fired. Same situation from the outside, perhaps, but very different from the inside.
        Originally posted by Silverbridge
        If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

        Comment


        • #24
          I have a couple of students who bit off quite a lot of horse to chew and came to me for help after it became evident they needed it.

          I do suggest that they limit their interaction with the horse to what I specifiy, i.e., stick with groundwork for now, ride but only aafter the groundwork goes well and stick to the walk, etc.

          I don't own them and they can obviously ignore my advice completely if they so choose but basically the Facts of the Situation (which I don't tell them, it is just kind of how it obviously is) mean that
          1.) they can get rid of the horse
          2.) they can keep the horse and ignore me and go backwards
          3.) they can keep the horse and listen to me and things will get progressively, if incrementally, better each week.

          They are more than happy to listen because when they do so, things go well and they can see progressive improvement as they are able to do more and more with the horse and have more and more success. It is better to be successful at the walk with more confidence at the end of the ride than to get scared trying to do more.

          So yes, I do restrict some of the riding but really at this point in time it is for the best for all concerned. They don't want to sell the horse and they will be able to learn how to ride it as long as they listen and take the time, and that's fine with everyone.

          It is funny because I am the least likely trainer to try to tell a client they aren't allowed to ride their horse. I try to get them on the horse as soon as possible, but sometimes that means you'll be walking and doing simple exercises a while. I find that building the ride gradually like this and really dotting each i and crossing each t is actually quite confidence building for both human and the horse. But you have to listen and when I say, "Just walk and practice x and so" it means, JUST walk and practice x and so.
          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

          Comment


          • #25
            I have personally not experienced it, but yes ... I've heard of it, but as I understand the situation it was because of farm access, not training requirements, at one hunter/jumper barn and two dressage facilities.

            I think international riders are thanking the folks who are willing to be "grandstand" owners. If I had a couple extra million, I'd be happy to support the top level of my chosen sport by helping a fabulous rider have fabulous horses
            *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

            Comment


            • #26
              I used to own trotting racehorses and this sounds like that kind of ownership.

              I would never think of riding or handling my racehorses, that was completely up to the trainer. I had no "bond" with them, but what a thrill to see them go!

              I do have a riding horse that I ride 5-6 times a week, and my dressage trainer would never think about restricting my riding time.
              www.headsupspecialriders.com

              Comment


              • #27
                It is a different business model. and/or a different cmpetition model.

                If you had a horse in training at a racetrack, you wouldn't expect to show up and ride it.

                If you had a horse competing at the Grand Prix/Advanced level in an FEI discipline with a trainer, you wouldn't expect to show up and ride it. If the horse was in training for YOU to RIDE, then you would expect expect to show up and ride on a regular basis.

                It seems the Arabian world falls somewhere in between.
                Janet

                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                Comment


                • #28
                  When I was involved with ASB's and showing, that was the norm. You rode in a lesson on your horse once a week, and on a schoolhorse in another lesson once a week.

                  This was one of the many reasons that I now don't show ASB's in breed shows. I wanted to putter with my boy, go trail riding, camping, do something besides go around in a big circle at a couple of different gaits, if we even went in a circle. There were some lessons that we just went back and forth on the long wall for ten minutes. I wanted something more from my horse, I, also, wanted more for my horse, to have turnout, healthy feet, and a herd. So... sold one and packed the other one up one month and have never looked back, except for the thought of how much money I wasted, and how much happier and healthier my guy is not in a training barn... sigh... hindsight is always 20/20.


                  eta- there were folks that were very happy with this arrangement, so... and this barn was somewhat competitive, certainly not Kentucky Fair competitive, but local shows we did fairly well. Although, there were certainly some AOTR's that kicked our derrieres.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    This thread is interesting to me! I've never had enough $$ to have one of my horses in full-time, long-term training (had one with a trainer for a month or two as a teenager). BUT I grew up around ASBs, Morgans, and Arabs - worked for an awful ASB trainer and a decent Arab/ASB/Morgan trainer (they mostly showed local shows). That was the norm there and at all the barns I knew of: the owners only rode their horses under the supervision of the trainer in lessons. Those horses normally stayed 'in training' for years - their entire show career really. I was surprised to learn that's not the norm across breeds/disciplines!

                    It wouldn't have been for me. I admittedly don't get to show anymore, but I have happily trained my own horses. Maybe they're not Nationals contenders, but I took HUGE satisfaction in the training time I've put in when they did well at shows (when I still got to show).

                    To each their own, though. Some people want to WIN and that's the way for them to do it. It has been going on for years and years in some breeds, so it isn't a new thing. Some people prefer the ability to interact with/ride/know their own horse. Fortunately there's a variety of situations out there for people!
                    Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                    Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I, too, don't see how this is any different than the racing industry.
                      "We need a pinned ears icon." -MysticOakRanch

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        What I find the most interesting (baffling - but not judging!) are h/j riders who only ride their horses at shows. Compete and go home. Horse goes with trainer back to training barn and is schooled/ridden by trainers until the next show.
                        Barn rat for life

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I have a friend in a APHA (western pleasure, “HUS”) barn that operates like this. The barn is 5 hours away. She is welcome to come out for a lesson twice a month. Otherwise, its show up to the shows, and hop on after the horse has been warmed up and prepped – oh and be sure to write the checks.

                          I could NEVER operate like this. I just enjoy being around my horse – managing her care – grooming her – and yes, riding her! I have been in full training, and always did the vast majority of riding myself. Trainer might hop on my horse once or twice a week for very short rides.

                          Right now I have a 5 year old that no one but myself has ever ridden – I just can’t imagine owning a horse, and handing over the reins and just writing checks. It is bizarre to me.

                          Seems like it is ALL about showing – and very little to do with building a relationship with – and just enjoying the horse.

                          (said friend also went through 3 horses in one year – until she found one that consistently takes home the blues)
                          APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Having been involved with the Arab world in the 1980s, then taking a break to raise my sons, and now marginally involved - it's not the trainer environment per se that's turning people off to the Arab show world. It's the positioning of the Arabian as a business investment or rich person's play toy that has steadily eroded the number of people showing.

                            In the 1980s it was still possible to keep your horse at home, train it yourself, shoe it reasonably, and still compete successfully at class A shows, even Regionals or Nationals. In the late 1980s that all started to go out the window - and it was kind of deliberate. I can still remember the show manager of the Buckeye (big prestigious Arab show in Ohio) quoted in Arabian Horse World that they really didn't care about do it yourselfers showing there and they wouldn't cater to it. According to him, there were plenty of other shows that DIY folks could go to - the Buckeye was for the upper crust. I paraphrase, of course, but the tone and intent has stuck with me all these years, especially as the number of folks willing and able to foot the bill for this level of competition has steadily decreased.

                            Going to a class A show in Florida earlier this year where the opening announcement for each session was which classes were cancelled (most of them) and which had entries (2 or 3 per class) was a jaw dropping experience.

                            If it weren't for the sport horse division, which has robust participation, I think AHA would be in even deeper doo doo than they are now.

                            I don't think it's a coincidence that all high maintenance, trainer centered breed shows (Arabian, Morgan, Saddlebred) have a poor turnout at local shows these days. People a) can't afford it; b) want to have fun with their horses and do lots of different things with them; and c) are more sensitive to what is a healthy life style for a horse. I can't think of one saddle seat barn in my area that hasn't had to change their business model to account for people's changing attitudes.

                            End of history lesson, but to answer the OP's original question - what you see is typical for a shrinking number of Arab people. It's both a symptom and a cause of what's undermining the popularity of the breed. There are a fair number of folks like me who love their Arabs but completely reject this model.

                            ETA: My dressage trainer and regular clinician both see it as a positive that I do the vast majority of the riding/training of my horse myself. We might be going slower - but when we get it, we get it. I am really pleased that we have been able to figure out so much ourselves. I'm in it for the journey!
                            Last edited by oldernewbie; Nov. 27, 2012, 11:37 AM. Reason: Another thought

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Unfortunately, this is common in the horse industries where horses are shown as a group, the morgans, saddlebreds, arabians, etc. I don't know about AQHA, APHA or Pintos. As a person who 'grew up' in the Arabian show world, I hate hate hate what has been done to our horses. We still have and show Arab cross breds in sport horse, dressage, hunter/jumper. 25 - 30 years ago it was rare for a person not to keep their 'show horse' at home, do pasture turn out, be the trainer, and have a lesson every so often. But now, to show with any hope of placing on the Regional or National level, you have to be with a trainer and things are so intricate that the average rider can't even maintain a show horse. Our dressage horses go out and are treated like horses, not china dolls.

                              I would not allow students to jump unsupervised, when I ran my own barn, due to safety issues. I didn't have to be in the ring coaching, but I did have to be on the farm and sort of keep an eye out for the rider.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I think I speak for most of the thread in saying that's a situation I don't think even compares, and I hope most trainers would be that responsible when an owner buys the wrong horse for themselves. My trainer has unintentionally somewhat specialized in helping folks who buy totally inappropriate horses while with other trainers and get hurt or scared, but don't want to sell the horse. She has the patience of a saint for her willingness to work through so many problems with her clients - and from what I've seen of you I suspect you do as well.

                                Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                                I have a couple of students who bit off quite a lot of horse to chew and came to me for help after it became evident they needed it.

                                I do suggest that they limit their interaction with the horse to what I specifiy, i.e., stick with groundwork for now, ride but only aafter the groundwork goes well and stick to the walk, etc.

                                I don't own them and they can obviously ignore my advice completely if they so choose but basically the Facts of the Situation (which I don't tell them, it is just kind of how it obviously is) mean that
                                1.) they can get rid of the horse
                                2.) they can keep the horse and ignore me and go backwards
                                3.) they can keep the horse and listen to me and things will get progressively, if incrementally, better each week.

                                They are more than happy to listen because when they do so, things go well and they can see progressive improvement as they are able to do more and more with the horse and have more and more success. It is better to be successful at the walk with more confidence at the end of the ride than to get scared trying to do more.

                                So yes, I do restrict some of the riding but really at this point in time it is for the best for all concerned. They don't want to sell the horse and they will be able to learn how to ride it as long as they listen and take the time, and that's fine with everyone.

                                It is funny because I am the least likely trainer to try to tell a client they aren't allowed to ride their horse. I try to get them on the horse as soon as possible, but sometimes that means you'll be walking and doing simple exercises a while. I find that building the ride gradually like this and really dotting each i and crossing each t is actually quite confidence building for both human and the horse. But you have to listen and when I say, "Just walk and practice x and so" it means, JUST walk and practice x and so.
                                Originally posted by Silverbridge
                                If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by skykingismybaby1 View Post
                                  I used to own trotting racehorses and this sounds like that kind of ownership.
                                  I was thinking the same thing, not that much different than owning a racehorse. I wouldn't mind that kind of ownership with thoroughbreds, I suppose it's not different for some show owners, be it GP jumpers or Arabian halter horses.

                                  At least they want to own horses and pay money into the horse industry.
                                  Author Page
                                  Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                                  Steampunk Sweethearts

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    It's always been the norm for me, I grew up with ASBs & Arabs, (saddleseat type), and my father was the control freak trainer you all complain about before he got married.

                                    When I was young & doing the AOT thing, I aspired to have job where I could afford to have a horse with a trainer. I have found that ASB peeps are much less judgemental about this than say, sportier type owners. Last winter I said something, like "I could do something useful here..." The 20 something who was riding & rubbing horses, replied "Why? you're paying for this" There was no negativity or envy, just a statement of fact.

                                    I hate trail riding and hacking. It has zero appeal to me. Shoveling horse manure has even less appeal. I have the relationship that I desire with my horses. It may not be the relationship you want, but it works for me. I have gotten quite a bit of enjoyment out of seeing my horse go from nothing to something (& back to nothing, but that's another story ) Even with my horse turned out, I enjoy going to the barn and just watching horses work. I always have.

                                    I'm a freak, I would rather have my trainer show my horse in an Open class, than for him to dull it down to country pleasure so I could ride it. Besides a rider does not a trainer make.
                                    Visit my Spoonflower shop

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      to answer the OP - NO. and i am in full training. I ride my guy 99.9% of the time - or rarely does my trainer ask to sit on him - and that is always because there is an issue i am not able to work thru.

                                      my trainers *does* stipulate how often my guy needs to be worked if i want to get to where my goals state.... he also sets up our program etc... that is after all his job.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                        It is a different business model. and/or a different cmpetition model.

                                        If you had a horse in training at a racetrack, you wouldn't expect to show up and ride it.

                                        If you had a horse competing at the Grand Prix/Advanced level in an FEI discipline with a trainer, you wouldn't expect to show up and ride it. If the horse was in training for YOU to RIDE, then you would expect expect to show up and ride on a regular basis.

                                        It seems the Arabian world falls somewhere in between.
                                        Given that these absentee owners do ride/show from time to time, does that mean that it doesn't take a whole lot of skill, fitness or feel to ride them?

                                        I have seen this in the USEF hunters, too: Trainer does the warm up, puts the rider on and says "Just don't Do anything." But I think these riders do ride more and practice more at home.
                                        The armchair saddler
                                        Politically Pro-Cat

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Renae View Post
                                          This is the norm for Arabian, saddlebred and Morgan barns for horses competing at the regional or national level. Most barns want their clients coming out once a week to lesson, sometimes twice a week. Often times clients come out to lesson once or twice a week on school horses to work on their riding skills. Some people (especially equitation riders) own a practice horse that is not kept in training and they ride every day. If it is not your cup of tea no need to talk negatively about it. Very few amateurs who work full time jobs have the skills and/or time to train and condition a regional or national level Arabian, Morgan or Saddlebred, and that is the service these barns provide.

                                          ^this, exactly.

                                          Not everyone gets into horses for the exact same reason or wants the exact same things out of their relationship with their horses.

                                          For a lot of people owning a nice show horse is much like owning a nice racehorse. They don't need to be very hands-on to get enjoyment from horse ownership. And of course there are jerks that see the horse as sports equipment, but there are more that love their horses and want the best for them, they just don't want to be as involved as the DIY owner. Maybe fear issues, maybe physical issues, honesty about their skill level relative to their goals...maybe they just like it better that way.

                                          It's not something to get all judgey and superior over, it's just a different way.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X