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Has "beginner safe", "bombproof", "husband horse" changed???

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  • #41
    A little confused now...

    Ok.. Now you have me all thinking about the appropriate wording for our horse currently for sale. He is very quiet (2 on a scale of 10) . He is a good for a strong beginner rider. We take him to judged pleasure rides and he does very well, often in the ribbons.. We stick non rider guests (adults) on him when we go trail riding.

    What sort of listing would not put people off?
    Pao Lin

    Comment


    • #42
      Oddly, I have sortof the opposite issue right now.

      Have a little mare who was campaigned by solid experienced junior all year, flat/fences, I've advertised her as a junior horse, but not bombproof, not a hubby horse, - she's young and can be a little hot (rare- but it can happen with this horse) and needs someone whose been riding at least a year or so - so a degree of confidence, ability is required to handle her when she has a 'moment'. So I don't want her to go to a beginner rider, just in case..well you know. I'm paranoid.

      fast forward to every call...
      - my child is (pick an age) and has never ridden before, can she/he ride her alone?
      - my wife thinks she'd like to learn to ride, - this horse would be good for that right?
      - I'm looking for a husband horse, "does he ride?" oh no, just want something to poke around the trails with...

      "Uh.. no! thats why I said RIGHT IN THE ADD- only suitable for an experienced rider or a novice rider /w trainer. *sighs*
      Originally posted by ExJumper
      Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #43
        Sounds like us horsepeople have clear communication issues
        I know I am a very direct person (so I've been told by former employers!) and never seem to have a problem with people understand what it is that I am saying...except when looking for a horse!

        Comment


        • #44
          For those who asked about how to write sale ads, one thing that I think is helpful for buyer AND seller is to AVOID terms like beginner, advanced beginner, intermediate, etc, or DEFINE those terms in your ad. Those definitions vary as much or MORE than bombproof/hubby!

          If your horse can pack a non-rider on a trail in company, put that in the ad. If the horse requires a "strong beginner" otherwise, state EXACTLY why. I.e, say the horse does best with a rider who can walk/trot/canter independantly in the ring with other horses present, then specify that or define that as what you mean by "strong" beginner in the ad. Even that leaves a lot of room for variation (can they only WTC on a dead-head lesson horse? Are they only capable of controlling their horse in a group of 3 or less? So on and on and on...but you at least have a starting point now, whereas strong beginner can really mean ANYTHING).

          Now, you will still get all the crazies, but for the 10% out there who are earnestly looking, it helps a lot.

          I haven't sold a lot of horses, but I always put a line at the end that said, "This horse is best suited for a ____." Adult, adult re-rider, family trail horse for those with varied horse riding experience, whatever you think the horse is best suited to do. Yadda Yadda. You may be narrowing your market a little, but I do think it is helpful to say what you think the horse's best attributes are, and you can still do that in a semi-broad way. Or even put what the horse is NOT suited for (not for the faint of heart not for the under-insured! just kidding but you get the picture).

          Comment


          • #45
            be more specific!

            For those who asked about how to write sale ads, one thing that I think is helpful for buyer AND seller is to AVOID terms like beginner, advanced beginner, intermediate, etc, or DEFINE those terms in your ad. Those definitions vary as much or MORE than bombproof/hubby!

            If your horse can pack a non-rider on a trail in company, put that in the ad. If the horse requires a "strong beginner" otherwise, state EXACTLY why. I.e, say the horse does best with a rider who can walk/trot/canter independantly in the ring with other horses present, then specify that or define that as what you mean by "strong" beginner in the ad. Even that leaves a lot of room for variation (can they only WTC on a dead-head lesson horse? Are they only capable of controlling their horse in a group of 3 or less? So on and on and on...but you at least have a starting point now, whereas strong beginner can really mean ANYTHING

            Some good advice!... Although, I had to laugh about another post made earlier about buyers not reading the ad and calling anyway. I had a lunatic donkey I was helping a friend find a home for. He was untrainable and dangerous around her small grandchildren and all she wanted was a good home for him. She had rescued him from a dog pen existence. Okay.. so I put in bold absolutely not safe with children, needs strong horsemanship skills, would be good as a guard donkey only..blah blah.. the calls which came in were like "can my 5 yr old ride him? Has he ever been shown under saddle.. etc.
            Pao Lin

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            • #46
              I agree that people simply don't read ads very closely. I am all for spelling something out, but I am not interested in paying for a long ad that does that, particularly as I know that people won't read it anyway. I do my screening via e-mail or on the phone. It goes with the territory.
              Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
              http://www.ironwood-farm.com

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #47
                Would you EVER consider a horse that has been out in a pasture for last year and 1/2 "Bombproof"?
                Still trying to find husband horse.
                Went to see 20+yo horse, when I got there...oh horse hasn't been ridden in a year (yes I should have prequalified a better!), we don't even have tack for him, but watch, I'll ride him bareback in the pasture....hmmmm
                Was going to go back w/ my tack to try, but started thinking...horse has not been touched in over a year, not even to bring in, no grooming, etc. basically feral, free or not to bring to my farm with my premadonnas (sp?)
                Not worth it!
                Yes, I should have asked if this "bombproof horse" has been ridden, I just ASSUMED...I know
                another pretty day to go trail riding by myself! Which is fine, but after every now and then it would be nice to have someone to ride with.

                Comment


                • #48
                  I actually own a horse who is still [as close to] bomproof [as a horse can be] after being in pasture for a year, so, no, I don't consider that a disqualifier. (Though he wasn't COMPLETELY untouched during that time - he had regular vet/farrier care, deworming, blanketing, etc.)

                  The no tack thing is odd (they should at least have told you beforehand: I've gone to see horses who had no tack, but the owners let me know upfront) - and the (if as described) not taking basic care of the horse is just irresponsible. But at 20, if the horse had a long career before being turned out and proved himself reliably safe/bombproof during said long career, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that he had retained those characteristics. After all, it's not like horses generally forget most parts of their training over the course of a year...

                  And, quite frankly, such a horse will probably be obtainable for far less money than his regularly schooled counterparts - and, presuming he was in good condition following a year of complete lack of use or routine care, he's probably a pretty easy keeper, too. But then, I'm one who likes to find the diamonds in the rough...
                  Proud member of the EDRF

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                  • #49
                    But when I offered my old fellow for lease or half-lease two years ago, only a handful of people were interested, and felt that the cost was too high! $280 a month!! And it was essentially a full lease for a half-lease price, because I would only have ridden him occasionally, mostly to pony my baby. Aaargh. I was going to continue to pay for half his board, half his shoeing, half his extra (senior) feed, ALL his supplements AND a monthly Legend shot....but people thought $280 a month was too much money - in the SF Bay Area where it is NOT cheap to keep a horse. Sigh. I even would have allowed him to be moved somewhere else as long as it was within the County where I could check on him regularly. But no takers.

                    He was at the time 21, 16.2 App/TB (2nd gen cross); about as close to dead quiet as you can get. Even when something upset him, he gave plenty of warning - head up, frozen in place... and then would do a slo-mo reverse - not even a spin, and walk/jog away for a few strides and stop. A good "whoa-easy" would stop him in his tracks. If you lost your balance, he would stop moving. A go-anywhere, do anything horse - but no one was interested.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      No the definition hasn't changed, people have. Peoples perceptions and their desperation make them lie or exaggerate about their horses.
                      Someone said a beginner safe horse had to be over 10 years old. Totally false! I bought a 4 year old (ex ranch gelding, mind you, but still 4 years old) and he was better than most 20+ year old beginners lesson horses. It depends on the horse, not the horses age.
                      I'd always recommend an old ranch horse for anyone wanting a safe, good, reliable horse. I'm on my third one (first passed away, the 4 year old I ended up selling due to lack of time and him being so young, he was miserable and bored) and I don't think I'll look for anything other than an old ranch gelding if I had to. I've had two non-ranch horses, both were horrible. I'm not saying all ex ranch horses are perfect, but the majority are wonderful. Try looking into that.. I don't know your location but I got two of my ranch geldings (the 4 year old and my current) from www.supergentlehorses.com, located here in Arizona. Lovely horses, worth the trip to AZ (people from Colorado and other places buy from this place).
                      Some things to expect from a ranch horse, on the negative scale.. Some are shy. Ranchers don't love up and feed treats to their horses. Expect them to be wary when you try to do this, until they are used to it. Water is another thing.. my current is afraid of water. Ranchers don't bathe their horses frequently like we do. Training.. my horse has no idea what leg cues are. Perfect neck reining, no clue about the legs. On a positive scale.. they've been there and done that. Most of them have great legs/feet, a lot can go barefoot just fine if you're into that. A lot of them are stocky, great for a man since this would be your husbands horse.. And they don't get fresh! Well, none I've encountered. So for the occasional rider they are perfect, you don't have to lunge, just hop on and go.

                      Wow, lots of rambling :P Just tossing out some ideas since you're looking for a horse.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Rebmik View Post
                        Would you EVER consider a horse that has been out in a pasture for last year and 1/2 "Bombproof"?
                        Still trying to find husband horse.
                        Went to see 20+yo horse, when I got there...oh horse hasn't been ridden in a year (yes I should have prequalified a better!), we don't even have tack for him, but watch, I'll ride him bareback in the pasture....hmmmm
                        Was going to go back w/ my tack to try, but started thinking...horse has not been touched in over a year, not even to bring in, no grooming, etc. basically feral, free or not to bring to my farm with my premadonnas (sp?)
                        Not worth it!
                        Yes, I should have asked if this "bombproof horse" has been ridden, I just ASSUMED...I know
                        another pretty day to go trail riding by myself! Which is fine, but after every now and then it would be nice to have someone to ride with.
                        A mare that I trained as a 3 year old and rode till she was 4 has been a broodmare ever since. She had an injury that we almost lost her to, and then she just loved being a mom. So she had a year of training, in which she was exposed to quite a bit, did a couple local hunter shows, couple parades around Christmas, that kind of thing.

                        She is now 12. From the time she was 4 till she was 7 no one was on her. She received regular vet and farrier care, but no excess handling. I hopped on her one day to take a trail, she never batted an eye. Since then I take her on a trail maybe twice a year. She never takes a wrong step. She is quite possibly the best most solid mare I have trained.

                        So after hardly being handled for 3 years, yes I still called her bombproof. She may need some touchups, her transitions are a little rusty, but I would trust her with anyone. She takes care of her rider.
                        Riding the winds of change

                        Heeling NRG Aussies
                        Like us on facebook!

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                        • #52
                          Rebmik..how about the horse paohatch mentions in post at top of page? Are you guys too far apart geographically?

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Location plays a role in finding good beginner/hubby horses. Used to be years ago here in CT you could find them by the boatload...*true* safe, sane, sound horses that just about anyone could ride. Not fancy, not registered, usually between the ages of 8-18 and usually between $600-$1200. Higher end for fancier colors or one that could also hop around a course without looking silly.
                            Of course with price differences between now and then those prices wouldn't work here in CT. But there's also very few to NO horses like that either anymore. We used to have tons more summer horse camps, huge lesson stables and quite a few trail riding places. Those places were constantly buying and selling bombproof beginner horses. Businesses would buy them in late winter from auctions, stick their exercise riders on them until spring and then they went into the lesson or trail riding strings for the summer until fall. Then those would go to the local fairs and shows for exposure and advertised for sale there while being ridden. Horses bought for pennies sold for hundreds in fall, barns made their money off them all summer and sold for a profit in fall and used part of those proceeds to buy new ones in late winter again. Since nobody worried about giving up the "good ones" they were easy to find and easy to afford. Barns would always get a handful of new ones every year. Nowadays so few are well enough trained or have the brains for being an "anyone" horse that the stables and private owners don't want to sell the ones they have. because it's impossible to find new replacement ones.
                            Try waiting until late next summer...or possibly still now in some areas...and check online for trail riding places and camp horses coming off their summer/fall of work. They just spent months being ridden by green as grass riders and are usually safe. If you don't live in an area with a lot of camps/trail riding places then you may have to travel to an area that does to find a good camp horse. Or ask around and see if anywhere near you gets trailers of "ranch broke" horses in from midwest type big barns/ranches. FWIW those seem to be mainly very well broke, low spook-factor, calm and good brained horses. Probably will be stocky, short and nothing fancy but usually safe and sane if they've had a summer of work.
                            You jump in the saddle,
                            Hold onto the bridle!
                            Jump in the line!
                            ...Belefonte

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                            • #54
                              ChipNCharlie, I have one who came from SuperGentleHorses, too! He's about 21 years old now, and is absolutely priceless to me. I bought him for my husband, who was a total beginner (and still pretty much is), to be a dead-quiet horse he could hop on and take for a walking trail ride every once in a while, and to keep my other horse company. You can't beat a level-headed, experienced ranch horse. They have the kind of been there/done that experience that most of us could never have the time or ability to give a horse. I vetoed a number of other horses at SGH because they weren't what I was looking for -- totally dead broke, quiet, reliable, sensible, bombproof. I've seen a few other friends buy "husband horses" that I'd never put my husband on, unless I was trying to get rid of him! If I could find a rnach pony that was younger and with good gaits, I just might try to turn one into a dead-broke dressage pony one of these days. Not only does my SuperGentleHorse take my husband trial riding, he's been fun for me to ride. I've taught him his canter leads in the arena, and discovered that he LOVES cavalettis and crossrails. I've taken him on all sorts of trail rides, team sorting AND riding to the hounds with the hunt club!
                              Visit the County Island, home of Whiskey the ranch horse: http://countyisland.wordpress.com
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                              • #55
                                Those words seem to mean vastly different things to different people.

                                I've met people who have been riding for a year, confidently cantering, call themselves "total beginners". Then I've met some people who haven't ridden in 10 years and are out of shape, and they put themselves in the same category.

                                Some people are realistic and keep in mind even a beginners horse can spook. And I've met others who are looking for an ATV with hooves, which is IMO totally unrealistic.

                                And some people take into account the horse's breed, i.e. a "beginner" TB might have a bit more go than a "beginner" Fjord.

                                Personally I try to avoid these labels since they're not objective. Instead I try to find out the person's riding level and goals. Or when I'm describing a horse I'd rather say he's "calm and sensible" and "not green".

                                And can someone tell me what a "husband horse" is? Not everyone's husband is an unbalanced sack of potatoes who only rides once a year and yanks and kicks at the same time.... how do I know if the caller's husband is this kind of person? Is it rude to ask how unskilled the husband is? Why isn't the husband calling directly? <frustrating>
                                Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I think you have to be really careful to use the words "bombproof", "dead quiet". My horse is super quiet, great beginner horse - he is older. Nothing phases him in the ring - loud sounds, flocks of birds swooping overhead or by, animals - deer, dogs - tarps, white bags - machinery, chainsaws - he just stands there or simply doesn't react. We have passed lots of deer and other animals on the trail - really no reaction - just looks. BUT I got a wake-up call trail riding recently....he was going along quietly as can be and about 10 feet away, a herd of deer were sleeping and hidden in tall grass - they LEAPED out of the grass, startled all of us - as they would anyone - even a human, even a "bombproof" horse. My guy lurched forward and to the left, obviously thinking it might be a lion, attempting to go from zero to 30 in a seconds, and he went out from under me and I landed in the tall grass - not hurt but it reminded me that even "bombproof" horses can get surprised or startled if the "thing" or incident is completely unexpected. He didn't run off. He stopped immediately and turned around and I had a great rider/horse with me that held his reins to be safe. But he immediately returned to his "quiet, bombproof" self within seconds - I got back on and we rode home, again - he was back to his quiet self. I think about that spook and what would have happened if we were in the woods, with trees all around us. I could have hit a tree - him too - it's a scary thought. Interestingly in the woods, the deer are pretty visible. In the field however, in tall grass - not so.

                                  My point is ANYTHING and I mean anything can happen, especially on the trail. It doesn't matter how quiet, tolerant or "beginner appropriate" a horse is. To the buyers who are asking, "Can my child ride him/her alone on the trail?" or other ridiculous questions - they need to be educated, and fast. I am actually glad I fell off! It was a wake-up call I needed. I had become complacent and too comfortable as my gelding has always been so "bombproof" and quiet - he really had....until then. So just a reminder and a thought regarding this post.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    i have the other problem, a husband safe horse, and there are no buyers in sight!
                                    www.camaloufarms.com

                                    ride it like you stole it! "ralph hill"

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                                    • #58
                                      I take great offence!

                                      I find the term "husband horse" to be very offensive and demeaning!!

                                      At our house a "husband" horse better be able to jump 4 foot.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Maybe some of those horses going to the auction in the MI thread would be suitable? Sounds like a lot of beginner hack stable horses.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          lola is right. We are going to the MI auction in hopes of saving a few for either therapy horses or trail horses. I have a friend in MD that is also finding potential buyers/homes including Circle of Hope. A trailer may be coming up from MD so if you are interested, we could throw one on for you too. The ecomony here stinks and we are worried that with 94 horses going to auction, a lot will be headed straight to Canada. We've rode quite a few of them and aside from being fed up with having their mouths reefed on, they are dead broke and as bombproof as a horse can be. They are all western and go great on a loose rein.
                                          Positive Step Farm

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