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"Hobbit" Movie Horses & Other Livestock Deaths

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Joanne View Post
    27 horse deaths seems alot. Is that above or below the average loss of horses on one New Zealand farm?

    27 animals, including horses, sheep, goats, and chickens

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
      27 animals, including horses, sheep, goats, and chickens
      And I am sure that number would change depending on who you talked to.
      My blog: Crackerdog Farm

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by RaeHughes View Post
        Barcadi! - so nice to know that you consider me a mean evil person! I used to graze my horses in this area. Never had a problem in >20 years and most people I know dont either. A horse doesnt need a flat paddock for God's sake - actually a little bit of effort daily keeps them healthier. I am not saying that we didnt get the odd sprain or wire cut but generally the horses were good and fit.

        It is rough country around Wellington - it is a known earthquake zone with four major faultlines running through it - Wairarapa, Wellington, Ohariu and Long Gully. The land is rolling to steep - as is a lot of New Zealand (aka "the Shaky Isles") - and there is very little flat land and certainly not for grazing livestock. But hey, who needs the gym? Just walk to work .

        With these steep hills, well bluffs happen! Horses are also silly enough to run off them .

        It was what we had to graze our livestock (incl horses) on. Does that make it alright? From what I have seen, in your opinion, no - but I could poke holes in anyone's places to keep horses. (Hey, where we live now is drought prone - I am waiting for the 1st one in 4 years so my horses can lose a little weight as I am struggling to keep them down! Those hills were brillant at keeping the horses exercised - what we called "grass-fit".)

        The trouble with sink holes is that you often dont know that they are there before the roof collapses in - I have seen it happen in real-time. I was riding on a quad helping the farmer move some sheep - he had just gone over the ground and I was about to start when the ground just collapsed in front of me. Guess what, it was five metres deep - and the farmer had been on that farm for >60 years and didnt even know that the area was "unstable". He knew that there were sink-holes and they were fenced off from stock - even those the local crazies practiced some basic caving skills in them . When we first moved our horses onto his farm, he told us where they were and told us what to look for - in case any new ones developed.

        Onto the fencing - well steep hills are fenced. Unfortunately, horses and fences (regardless of what they are made of) dont always mix well. These are hard farms and they do not lend themselves in being fenced in "horse-friendly" tapes etc. Besides the cost, to be frank, no "horse friendly" tapes could stand the wind-loading on the long runs of fencing that occur around Wellington. Even Gallagher - who invented "horse-friendly" tapes - dont recommend it for the long steep runs in Wellington! On the farm where I used to graze my horses, we had fence lines of >1km in length up a # of hills.

        The other stock losses - well, sorry, but I read far worse on this bulletin board every day.

        I wont change your mind. Dont care, I am just tired of people being intolerant of actions that they dont agree with - without knowing facts.
        Seems to me that one of the noted "plusses" for purchasing a NZ-bred event horse/event prospect is that they are very surefooted and have learned to cope with irregular terrain - definitely a good thing for an event horse!

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Joanne View Post
          27 horse deaths seems alot. Is that above or below the average loss of horses on one New Zealand farm?
          I apologize. I misread the article.
          The virtual "woodshed" seems the only remedy for willful fools .

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Sandy M View Post
            Seems to me that one of the noted "plusses" for purchasing a NZ-bred event horse/event prospect is that they are very surefooted and have learned to cope with irregular terrain - definitely a good thing for an event horse!

            I never thought of that but I bet there is some truth to that!
            Draumr Hesta Farm
            "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
            Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

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            • #26
              SandyM - you can certainly tell the difference between a "hill raised" horse and one raised on flat paddocks! And it is quite "interesting" the first few times you hack out your "hill-trained/ridden" horse on a flat road where you can see a long long way. They are simply not used to being able to see that far
              Still Working_on_it - one day I will get it!

              Comment


              • #27
                Okay, seriously, horses need to be housed on flat ground? Wow.
                It looks like most of the issues were caused by management, not the farm conditions- worms, feed changes, etc. that should have been controlled; the couple accidents that seem to be attributed to unsafe farm conditions could just have easily have happened anywhere. Yes, it is awful that the animals died, but sometimes accidents do just happen- these are horses we are talking about after all! My mare manages to hurt herself in a flat field with good fencing and literally nothing in it; it doesn't mean the farm is unsafe, it just means she's a horse and a little too creative for her own good.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Does anyone remember last years HBO series LUCK?
                  Gary Stevens played one of the jockeys.
                  I really like that show, but I read they cancelled it because there were 2 horses that died. No fault of the series, one reared up and flipped and one coliced
                  I think they were actual track horses. not sure.
                  Is the movie you are talking about one that is in production?

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                    Does anyone remember last years HBO series LUCK?
                    Gary Stevens played one of the jockeys.
                    I really like that show, but I read they cancelled it because there were 2 horses that died. No fault of the series, one reared up and flipped and one coliced
                    I think they were actual track horses. not sure.
                    Is the movie you are talking about one that is in production?
                    The Hobbit is due to come out or in the theaters now.
                    Originally posted by BigMama1
                    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                    GNU Terry Prachett

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      The Hobbit is out next month and I'm gonna go see it in HFR3D!
                      Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Dreamwalker View Post
                        Add me to those people who keep horses on the steep NZ hills. Mine are fine...
                        OMG, don't be ridiculous, of course they're not fine. Why, evah-body knows you have to keep horses on flat land, don't you know they *run*? "It's just a no-brainer"!
                        Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Reading about the mini in this article broke my heart.

                          http://news.yahoo.com/wranglers-hobb...084335908.html
                          R.I.P. Ollie (2007-2010) You were small in stature but huge in spirit. You will never be forgotten.

                          Godspeed, Benjamin (1998-2014). A life well-lived. A horse well-loved.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            I worked on The Hobbit, on a lot of the footage involving horses. These reports of neglect are full of accusations with very little to back them up.

                            First of all the horses & ponies in this film are not all kept at one facility as these reports lead you to believe. The film is shot all over New Zealand and in many cases they use locally owned horses. Many of the horses in the film are actually not real ones, they're digital doubles. My horse was photographed as reference, not long after she kicked a fence and injured herself. She's all fine now but perhaps someone wants to write an article how a horse used as reference for The Hobbit is living in horrid conditions? It doesn't have anything to do with the film but you could make it sound that way.

                            Before this film was even green lit to go ahead the unions outside of New Zealand were lining up to boycott it. There seem to be a lot of people out there that don't want this film to succeed.

                            And by the way, although there may have been a mini named Rainbow in the film, the hobbits & dwarves actually rode horses as the actors are human sized!

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Marengo View Post
                              I worked on The Hobbit, on a lot of the footage involving horses. These reports of neglect are full of accusations with very little to back them up.
                              PETA (*spit*!) have made a number of accusations.

                              http://action.peta.org.uk/ea-action/...paign.id=17536

                              Is there any truth at all in this one? ...

                              "A horse named Shanghai was hobbled (his legs were tied together so that he couldn't move) and left on the ground for three hours because he was too energetic for his rider. Afterward, in order to hide his rope burns for filming, his legs were covered with make-up and hair. Hobbling is an outright violation of guidelines from the American Humane Association (AHA), which was monitoring the production."

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by fburton View Post
                                PETA (*spit*!) have made a number of accusations.

                                http://action.peta.org.uk/ea-action/...paign.id=17536

                                Is there any truth at all in this one? ...

                                "A horse named Shanghai was hobbled (his legs were tied together so that he couldn't move) and left on the ground for three hours because he was too energetic for his rider. Afterward, in order to hide his rope burns for filming, his legs were covered with make-up and hair. Hobbling is an outright violation of guidelines from the American Humane Association (AHA), which was monitoring the production."
                                I doubt it. Hobbled horses can move, just not far or quickly, and it is a safe practice. This quote seems to be conflating hobbling with hog-tying, and therefore I call bullhockey.
                                Holy crap, how does Darwin keep missing you? ~Lauruffian

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by axl View Post
                                  I doubt it. Hobbled horses can move, just not far or quickly, and it is a safe practice. This quote seems to be conflating hobbling with hog-tying, and therefore I call bullhockey.
                                  Not to mention, if the issue was "too energetic for rider" hobbling or hog-tying wouldn't solve it. If the accusation was that the horse was lunged into the ground until it was shaking and dripping, at least that would make some sense.
                                  Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Sandy M View Post
                                    Seems to me that one of the noted "plusses" for purchasing a NZ-bred event horse/event prospect is that they are very surefooted and have learned to cope with irregular terrain - definitely a good thing for an event horse!
                                    Very true! I used to ride a little NZ TB and he was aMAZing.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by fburton View Post
                                      Is there any truth at all in this one? ...

                                      "A horse named Shanghai was hobbled (his legs were tied together so that he couldn't move) and left on the ground for three hours because he was too energetic for his rider. "
                                      I can see hobbling a horse who wouldn't stand if the horse had to stand for the scene.

                                      The AHA does not appear to forbid hobbling. Simply states (in several places) that the animal must be trained to hobble first. http://www.americanhumane.org/assets...guidelines.pdf
                                      ::Sometimes you have to burn a few bridges to keep the crazies from following you::

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by fburton View Post
                                        PETA (*spit*!) have made a number of accusations.

                                        http://action.peta.org.uk/ea-action/...paign.id=17536

                                        Is there any truth at all in this one? ...

                                        "A horse named Shanghai was hobbled (his legs were tied together so that he couldn't move) and left on the ground for three hours because he was too energetic for his rider. Afterward, in order to hide his rope burns for filming, his legs were covered with make-up and hair. Hobbling is an outright violation of guidelines from the American Humane Association (AHA), which was monitoring the production."
                                        Not that I've heard of but I couldn't say for sure as this film was shot in many different locations with different people and horses involved in each location. A lot of the horses in the film are privately owned with their owners riding in costume in the film. It is 100% true that the film production covered horses legs with make-up & hair but this was done for the film, so the horses looked to be the right breed and color for the scene not too hide abuse.

                                        In the case of the Wellington farm some accidents occurred and the person responsible was fired immediately and replaced. It's quite a stretch to boycott a film because an employee made a mistake of leaving the chicken coop not properly secure.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I must be a scum sucking bottom feeding animal abuser because I used to show in the Trail Horse classes out in California where hobbling was an option to ground tying if you used romel reins...and mine were trained to hobble. Also hobbled camping out a few times-it does not resemble the hog tying described.

                                          Apparently this was so heinous they waited 2 years until just before the premiere...

                                          I'll be in line on the? Is it the 14th? I could threaten to be in costume but too lazy to work one up.

                                          I do have some question about getting 3 films out of that skinny little book though.
                                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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