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padlocking horses into their stalls?!

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Frizzle View Post
    Agree, padlocking a horse in its stall is absolutely unacceptable. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if the stall had a big attached paddock where the horse had room to get away if there was a fire. Still not really acceptable, though, because what if the horse needed to go to the horsepital or something?

    Now, I HAVE seen a BO change the padlock on the tackroom and give the combination to all the boarders except the person who owed a lot of money. That way, if the person left with her horses, she couldn't take any of her tack and the BO could either hold the tack "hostage" until the bill was paid or sell the tack to make back some money. And she could not ride and enjoy the facilities since she had not paid. That, I think, is pretty fair. The horses were not put in any danger but the BO was still protecting his back.
    This. Don't lock up the horse but do lock up the tack. Presumably owner wants tack moved with horse, so keeping it locked up will force owner to pay up.

    I would sincerely hope ANY BO who padlocked horses in their stalls would not leave the property, preferably the barn, with the key while doing so.

    Barn fires seem pretty commonplace to me - I can think of a couple off the top of my head that have happened the past few years. That's common enough to scare me, plenty of flammable objects in a barn.
    Last edited by Event4Life; Nov. 14, 2012, 11:59 AM. Reason: I MEANT KEY not lock! Whoops!
    "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
    "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey

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    • #42
      Wow. I got a thumbs down for my "I don't do crazy" post? So that's what one looks like... LOL
      Nudging "Almost Heaven" a little closer still...
      http://www.wvhorsetrainer.com

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      • #43
        Definitely get out. I liked another poster's idea to say something along the lines of you not having a self care partner because HO left and the other place is just more convenient. Also, turn out in a 1/4 acre pasture every so often just isn't good for the horse

        We did once have to padlock our pastures and paddocks (but not stalls because it just wasn't worth the risk) because of a disgruntled exemployee who was coming in at night and letting our horses loose. I also had to keep my dog locked in doors because rumor was that she wanted to steal him. The cops got involved and paid her a visit and she stopped... People are nuts.
        Southern Cross Guest Ranch
        An All Inclusive Guest Ranch Vacation - Georgia

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Kementari View Post
          If you are worried about your horse dying in a fire/earthquake/invasion of locusts because he's padlocked in his stall, then pay your bills. Pretty simple.
          I have to agree with this.

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          • #45
            Padlocking the stalls is dangerous. Horses going without hay for days? Even if not my horses affected I would leave . Something is rotten there.

            Besides, padlocking the stalls is not even effective if all one needs is boltcutters to take the horse away. The BO is taking out her difficulties on the horses.

            This illustrates another reason why I never allow boarders to get in arrears. It's too much trouble to try and get the money owed.

            If boarders don't pay board on or before 1st of month they must leave even if it means I lose my notice- and I have done that rather than be stuck with a deadbeat. I just won't keep horses for free as in most cases if someone can't pay you this month, it won't be any better next month. If a long time boarder with a good record and a good reason for problems for one month, I'd likely cut some slack-but the good boarders don't do this.

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            • Original Poster

              #46
              Originally posted by Kementari View Post
              Lots of places will padlock a stall if someone is behind on board and threatening (either literally or figuratively) to leave without paying. Once the horse leaves, the BO loses all their leverage.
              Isn't it possible to simply sue for breach of contract?? Do you need to have the horses in your possession to do that?
              If the BO is in the right, they would win and get the money owed.

              HO had no intention of leaving; it was a dispute over services rendered (or not, in this case), and HO had reasons for not paying the fees. As I understand. As I have stated before, she could be lying. But the barn she moved to was a barn she had boarded at previously (they accepted her back that day with no questions), so I have reason to doubt she's a routine "deadbeat boarder".

              Originally posted by Crockpot View Post
              Besides, padlocking the stalls is not even effective if all one needs is boltcutters to take the horse away. The BO is taking out her difficulties on the horses.
              Yes, the HO just came with boltcutters and seized her horses back and moved them. So therefore it was a completely ineffective, yet still dangerous, way for the BO to handle matters.

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              • #47
                So did you move?? If not I hope you were able to find someone to co-op with!
                "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
                "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey

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                • #48
                  ^^^
                  I gotta say, I see why BOs don't want to take the litigation route and would rather take some collateral in an ugly-looking, "don't tread on me" way like locking a horse in it's stall.

                  Doing it the courtly way, first you have to keep feeding the horse, then go to the trouble of pursuing the suit, and then, even if you get a judgement in your favor, you still need to collect. Collecting isn't a guaranteed outcome of being basically right or even having a judge agree with you.

                  Were BOs making more money for their trouble, I'd be less sympathetic. But as it stands, I "get it" that a BO would want to send a strong message to the deadbeat HO.
                  The armchair saddler
                  Politically Pro-Cat

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                  • #49
                    why would a BO WANT to keep a dead-beat boarder's horse around? every day the horse is there it costs money to keep, and even if you manage to obtain permission to sell the horse, and sell it, you're probably going to lose A LOT of money overall from having to care for the horse for many months. Very few horses can be quickly sold for enough money to cover even three months worth of care.

                    The better tactic when faced with a boarder who isn't paying, from the BO's perspective, would be to get the horse off the property ASAP by any means possible, and then sue the boarder for the unpaid money.

                    If I were a pissed off unpaid BO, I'd probably drop the horse off at the boarder's home- leave it tied out in the front yard.

                    Most of the time when BO's end up seizing and selling horses for unpaid bills it's because the horse owner abandoned the horse, not because the BO wanted the horse to stay around as "leverage" to get money out of the boarder.

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                    • Original Poster

                      #50
                      Originally posted by wendy View Post
                      why would a BO WANT to keep a dead-beat boarder's horse around? every day the horse is there it costs money to keep, and even if you manage to obtain permission to sell the horse, and sell it, you're probably going to lose A LOT of money overall from having to care for the horse for many months.
                      Horses didn't cost BO anything. It was self-care, so HO's responsibility to pay for feed, etc. The only cost the BO had was rent on the place, and she's paying that amount regardless. She can't fill stalls, so no waiting list for horses to fill those stalls.

                      ETA: by padlocking, the BO prevented HO and myself (co-op board buddy) from feeding, watering, and cleaning stalls.

                      Originally posted by Event4Life View Post
                      So did you move?? If not I hope you were able to find someone to co-op with!
                      Moving him today to the barn closer to home. Hoping to avoid a run-in with BO and just move while no one is there, but I don't think that's likely. I'm paid up through the month, and there is no requirement in my boarding contract to give any notice of leaving.

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                      • #51
                        why would a BO WANT to keep a dead-beat boarder's horse around? every day the horse is there it costs money to keep, and even if you manage to obtain permission to sell the horse, and sell it, you're probably going to lose A LOT of money overall from having to care for the horse for many months.


                        Exactly, Wendy.

                        If you think it through, why would a barn owner want to be stuck with someone's horse. Even if you take the steps to execute a lien, who is to say you can sell them for enough to get your money back? Yet you must feed and care for them and take responsibility while they take up a stall. This happened to an acquaintance. She seized a horse for non payment but could not sell it.

                        Nope. Much better to never let them get in arrears and cut your losses by turfing them out asap when they don't pay. As for sueing for breach on contract, if you don't let them get in arrears, your exposure should be such that it's often better to cut losses than throw good money after bad trying to get water out of a stone.



                        Horses didn't cost BO anything. It was self-care, so HO's responsibility to pay for feed, etc. The only cost the BO had was rent on the place, and she's paying that amount regardless. She can't fill stalls, so no waiting list for horses to fill those stalls.
                        ETA: by padlocking, the BO prevented HO and myself (co-op board buddy) from feeding, watering, and cleaning stalls
                        Bo was prepared to let the horses suffer?

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by morganpony86 View Post
                          Horses didn't cost BO anything. It was self-care, so HO's responsibility to pay for feed, etc.
                          Yes, but if BO takes horse for unpaid board it is BO's responsiblity to provide for that horse while it is in her care. As you said, by padlocking the horse in, both you and the horse's owner were unable to provide adequate care. BO would then be responsible for food, water, stall cleaning, etc.; which, from one of your earlier posts it doesn't sound like the BO would be able to do anyway.

                          Who knows what the truth is between BO and HO, but glad to hear you're moving your horse.
                          It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things.
                          Theodore Roosevelt

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                          • #53
                            That's scary. It is so wrong in so many ways I just can't imagine someone would put these horses in a dangerous situation where no one could get them out if there was a health threat or disaster.

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                            • #54
                              I have been a boarder, I have boarded horses for others as well. It's not the horse's fault his owner is not paying board. Padlocking horses into stalls is an unacceptable risk and shows a gross lack of judgment. Dealing with non paid accounts is unfortunately common in all businesses; if you never want to take the risk that someone won't pay and you will have to pursue a legal remedy then don't board horses.

                              If I went to a barn where I had a horse boarded and saw that BO had padlocked a horse into a stall I would give immediate notice.

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                              • #55
                                Clinton Anderson locks his horses in their stalls at expo's and other such events. Shudder.

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                                • #56
                                  Clinton Anderson locks his horses in their stalls at expo's and other such events. Shudder.
                                  figures. gahhh

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                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by katarine View Post
                                    Clinton Anderson locks his horses in their stalls at expo's and other such events. Shudder.
                                    I expect this is a situation where Anderson deems the risk of fire less than the risk of other problems. As a celebrity, he's more likely to have fruitbats trying to to mess with his horse than more anonymous people do. The horse is probably safer locked in its stall than running loose among the expo booths because some animal rights activist thought it needed to be liberated.

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                                    • #58
                                      I think a sturdy zip tie would suffice, personally. The more likely culprit (IMO) is some fan of his who wants a picture of themselves with said horse. I get the desire for the horse to be left alone, but a padlock and chain is too much. Maybe he's had someone break through more reasonable efforts, but this was a late night at Miller Coliseum in TN, a big facility, no other horses in that whole row- We were camping on the grounds and just walking the barns after supper- and there was this lone horse under lock and key. I don't know- the reality was unsettling.

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #59
                                        Confirmed last night when I moved my horse: horses were padlocked in over $600 that was two weeks late and because the BO thought the HO wasn't adequately cleaning up after herself.

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                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by morganpony86 View Post
                                          Confirmed last night when I moved my horse: horses were padlocked in over $600 that was two weeks late and because the BO thought the HO wasn't adequately cleaning up after herself.
                                          Confirmed with the barn owner or the horse owner?

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