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Election Day is oming - do you know who you are voting for and WHY?

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This is insensitive and I know I will be flamed but here it goes... If you can't afford to support 3 children, then either don't have them or do something to change it. Don't expect the governement to bail you out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Agree. If you have 2 kids and you can't make ends meet, don't have 3. I support access to family planning, birth control, and abortion precisely for this reason.

    However, please consider that not every poor single mother with three kids was poor when she started. Suppose dad died of a lingering illness, without health insurance or life insurance? Or she may have had a good job until her company went under or until she was sick or a child was sick and she couldn't work. These things happen to good, honest, hardworking people. People just like you.

    BTW: I know people with advanced technical degrees who have been out of work for extended periods. Saying "hey, they should go to the community college" (which by the way is starved for funding) isn't a cure-all.

    Like many of you, seeing someone supposedly poor take unfair advantage of a government program makes me extremely upset. But then, I get equally upset when a fortysomething guy with no obvious skill gets a 6-figure job as a corporate director.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by varider30:
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beezer:
      Kerry.
      Finally, I would much rather have a president who has the ability -- not to mention the good sense -- to change his mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      And Kerry is a PRO at this!

      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Ah. I see someone who's caught up in the spin cycle.

      Have you ever investigated Kerry's voting record on your own? For yourself? If so and you've come to the same conclusion, fine. But if you haven't, then please don't spout spin.

      I have absolutely no problem with someone who looks at new information, weighs and -- gasp! -- changes his mind. Shows a higher evolutionary process at work. Given that my own opinions have changed over the last year on several issues, why should I begrudge someone else for doing the same thing?
      Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Magnolia look supply and demand. There is a job washing dishes and there are 100 people equally capable of doing the job therefore the pay is lower.
        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        So, it is acceptable for you to ask somebody to work 40 hours a week for you and NOT pay them enough for food, decent housing, transportation and healthcare. So tax payers pick up that slack FOR you. And yes, the restauranteur works hard, and may go broke and work hard. But I have to ask why CEO's get paid multi millions - are they THAT much better than the beasts of burden scrubbing their floors?
        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

        Comment


        • A general question to all in favor of the minimum wage as a "living wage"... If the task done by the minimum wage earner doesn't generate enough profit to pay the wage and benefit ( ss & medicare taxes paid by employer) What happens to the job in the long term?
          Equus makus brokus but happy

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            hosspuller at a very basic level, the cost of goods and services will increase to meet that burden and the consumer will either decide the goods/services are worth that cost or not, and the market will decide as markets are prone to do. Option B is that some very saavy entrepeneur will find efficiencies in the process and continue to produce the goods/services at the same or similar cost.

            Now let me ask you a question. What happens if the lower wage results in a person who earns less than 200% of the Federal Poverty Level? What happens to EVERYONE'S tax base?



            (hint, it doesn't go down, the market doesn't get to make a decision on whether they want to bear the REAL value of those goods and services, they just get to subsidize them.)
            Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

            Comment


            • DMK, you've changed your tag line, eeeexxxxcellent!

              What has always struck me as wrong is that the FIRST place a company in trouble looks to cut back on is jobs/wages, instead of efficiency, parts/ingredients, marketing/sales, etc. The people that support the business are always asked to sacrifice first, not as a last resort, IME.
              Laurie

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              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hosspuller:
                A general question to all in favor of the minimum wage as a "living wage"... If the task done by the minimum wage earner doesn't generate enough profit to pay the wage and benefit ( ss & medicare taxes paid by employer) What happens to the job in the long term? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Well, of course it goes away. Or someone figures out how to change the job or the product produced to make that worker profitable.

                I would never expect a company to pay a higher cost for a worker than that worker can generate in income.

                Similarly, I would never expect a laborer to work for less money than it costs him to generate that labor.
                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                Comment


                • Magnolia the over paid CEO is the responsibility of the shareholders. There is a law suit pending now at Disney where the shareholders are holding the Board of Directors responsible for mismanagement each personally.

                  The CEO is an employee and if management chooses to overpay that's no different than any employer who pays an employee more than they can afford or deserve. However, since the decision cost the Shareholders money the Board is responsible to them and they can sue for damages.
                  http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                  Comment


                  • DMK:

                    "at a very basic level, the cost of goods and services will increase to meet that burden and the consumer will either decide the goods/services are worth that cost or not, and the market will decide as markets are prone to do. Option B is that some very saavy entrepeneur will find efficiencies in the process and continue to produce the goods/services at the same or similar cost."

                    So Increasing the minimum wage is partly responsible for the "outsourcing of jobs" ... Walmart et al are very astute entrepeneurs


                    Now let me ask you a question. What happens if the lower wage results in a person who earns less than 200% of the Federal Poverty Level? What happens to EVERYONE'S tax base?

                    (hint, it doesn't go down, the market doesn't get to make a decision on whether they want to bear the REAL value of those goods and services, they just get to subsidize them.)

                    Uhmmm .. Tax burden or inflation (almost the same thing) goes up..
                    Equus makus brokus but happy

                    Comment


                    • dcm - This is in response to your post from Oct. 28, 2004 02:26 AM.

                      I don’t know how you can be so sure that Kerry won’t continue to fight the terrorists. He has said, emphatically, that he will continue to hunt out the terrorists. What more can he say to convince you?

                      I’m not sure what you mean by, “Without security we will not have an economy to worry about jobs to gain or loose, taxes to cut or raise, or a health care system to improve.” Are you implying that you think the terrorists will blow-up the entire country, or that they will take over? I really don’t understand?

                      And I wonder why you say Kerry does not make you feel safe. Maybe because he doesn’t wear a cowboy had, walk with a swagger, and pump his arm with enthusiasm when he talks about fighting the terrorists.

                      Keep the terrorists at bay? No. We have to wipe them off the face of the earth, and Kerry, with his real war experience can do that.

                      Your second paragraph is filled with non-sequiturs and meaningless statements.

                      You say Kerry ridicules Bush for his religious beliefs. Find me just one quote where he did this.

                      This I don’t get at all. You said, “He (Kerry) can be found stumping during church services at black churches around the country.” I don’t understand what is wrong with this.

                      What does Kerry’s middle name have to do with anything at all?

                      Kerry never said, “Our soldiers die honorably when they fight for the UN, but not when they fight unilaterally.” That’s a total misquote.

                      You said, “Kerry is always quick to criticize Bush for perceived shortcomings.” And, I assume, you’re implying that Bush has never criticized Kerry? Come on, they criticize each other. That’s politics.

                      I could continue to debunk every comment you made, but it appears from the mistruths you have been led to believe are true, that Bush and Cheney have worked their magic on you. Instead of listening to what they say, take some time to find the truth by reading or listing to the news where they give us both sides.

                      Comment


                      • horseless no more - If the main reason you are not voting for Kerry is because of his health insurance plan, then you need to understand what it is. He is NOT saying that there will be only one plan. What he is saying is that he wants to offer more choices. I have no idea where you got that idea from. During one of the debates he stated that very clearly.

                        Comment


                        • Poltroon...

                          You said: "Similarly, I would never expect a laborer to work for less money than it costs him to generate that labor. "

                          The only time this is true, it's called slave labor. That's the beauty of this country, it's people are free to chose
                          Equus makus brokus but happy

                          Comment


                          • Hello Eve ... I find we're on opposite sides of the table. I don't believe Kerry will lead the country to victory in war. What he says he'll do, has not been what he did in the last 30 years. Talk is nothing but cheap.

                            I DO agree with you in that "...We have to wipe them (terrorists) off the face of the earth..." People that willingly die to hurt us can only be stopped by killing them.

                            Kerry's "...real war experience..." is not what is required today. The President does not face physical danger. He faces a far greater risk. Millions of lives and future generations are at stake. Thousands of military deaths are gladly paid as a price for our society, yesterday and tommorrow.

                            The only way we can win is to fight a strategic battle. We have to deny terrorists, areas and countries from which to prepare and launch attacks on us. Islamic dictatorships are prime areas for that. To prevent more suicide bombers, we have to change the society that says it is good to die. (and keep the Mullahs in power) Our society says it is good to live. That's why the Mullahs rant at us. It is not our behavior or our support of Isreal. Ordinary people want to live given the choice instead of brain washing.

                            I believe mistakes have been made in the war. I wish it was not so. But my wishes matter not a nit. What does matter is the ultimate success of denying terrorists places and societies to recruit & hide in. Bush has lead America to significant success. Afganistan has women becoming leaders of their society instead of cattle. (my flame suit is on...) Women as equal partners in society provide civilization. Without women's influence, men run amuck and create the dammedest oppressive societies.
                            Equus makus brokus but happy

                            Comment


                            • Exactly how many of you own and operate a business that has more than 100 names on the payroll list?

                              Comment


                              • Yes, and yes.

                                Malcolm

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hosspuller:
                                  The only way we can win is to fight a strategic battle. We have to deny terrorists, areas and countries from which to prepare and launch attacks on us. Islamic dictatorships are prime areas for that. To prevent more suicide bombers, we have to change the society that says it is good to die. (and keep the Mullahs in power) Our society says it is good to live. That's why the Mullahs rant at us. It is not our behavior or our support of Isreal. Ordinary people want to live given the choice instead of brain washing.
                                  <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  Just wondering, have you read the text of Bin Laden's tape? Has anyone else on this board read it?

                                  I don't mean just the sound bites that played all day on Fox. I mean, actually read the whole dang text.

                                  Because if you did, you might want to rethink some of these sweeping generalizations.
                                  Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!

                                  Comment


                                  • msghook... yes and YES WHAT?

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
                                      Oakleigh, do not talk down to me and assume that I don't know about the additional costs in the employment of a human being. We were talking about the raising of the minimum wage; that the built in "must pays" would also go up, albeit NOT significantly, is a given. Your arrogance about this is undermining your argument. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Lauriep, I was NOT speaking down to you. My apologies if it sounded that way. I do not have one ounce of arrogance in my being.

                                      Oakleigh
                                      Oakleigh Sporthorses Sale Horses

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hosspuller:
                                        The only way we can win is to fight a strategic battle. We have to deny terrorists, areas and countries from which to prepare and launch attacks on us. Islamic dictatorships are prime areas for that. To prevent more suicide bombers, we have to change the society that says it is good to die. (and keep the Mullahs in power) Our society says it is good to live. That's why the Mullahs rant at us. It is not our behavior or our support of Isreal. Ordinary people want to live given the choice instead of brain washing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                        So then why did we invade Iraq a SECULAR country run by a dictator who was no friend of the mullahs, in fact has basically been at war with them throughout his reign?

                                        Beezer, I read it. I hope everyone does between now and Tuesday.

                                        Comment


                                        • Creating a living wage - getting cash in the hands of the poor/ lower middle class would help circulate money and increase demand for goods. Getting more cash in the hands of the wealthy MAY help create jobs, but they may also be more likely to save the increase vs spending it on goods and services.

                                          For example, if I made an extra $300 a month, I would likely invest it in a 401K for retirement. If my neighbor in the squallid duplex got that extra money, he might buy a car, move to a nicer home or purchase more food. Hence creating more demand for goods, and getting more money out into the economy.

                                          We also really need to stop outsourcing work. When nothing is made here to sell to outsiders, we won't be getting a fresh circulation of money into our economy. Say I buy a chinese made sofa at Sofa Express for $500. That money helps the clerk, the shareholders of sofa express, the shipping company.... The rest goes to Chinese workers who spend money on Chinese goods and services. Now let's say I buy a sofa made in the USA for $750. The same people as above get a portion of it, except instead of the Chinese getting money, the people who made the sofa, the fabric, the coils etc. etc. all get money which they can go out and spend on goods and services in the US. Right now, that cycle is being interupted - our manufacturing people don't have money to spend even to buy a cheap sofa at Sofa Express, even if it is $250 cheaper. So nobody can buy a sofa? (well, that's why they have the credit system..... but what happens when that blows up)?

                                          All things considered, this is a great discussions, and I haven't heard ANY arrogance on either side, just good debate.
                                          The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

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