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Election Day is oming - do you know who you are voting for and WHY?

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  • It's not the governement's job to tell business owners how much to pay a person. If someone wants to be paid more, then they need to better themself to make more money.

    If minimum wage is increased to say for arguements sake to $8.00/hr, the price for a Big Mac at Mcdonalds will have to be increased to cover the cost of the employees. I don't know how much a Big Mac is now but I will say $3.00 If minimum wage is increased, then the burger's price may be increased $4.00. Well that affects the consumers who may decide that is too expensive and won't eat there anymore. This could happen in any business that would be forced to pay more for jobs that don't require much in the way of skills. All of this affects the economy!

    Comment


    • "It's not the governement's job to tell business owners how much to pay a person. If someone wants to be paid more, then they need to better themself to make more money. "

      Yeah, it is, when even the biggest, richest ones won't step up and do what is right. How do you expect a working, single mom of 2-3 to "better themself" if they are having to work 2-3 jobs just to pay the bills? That argument doesn't make sense! Now, if her main job paid enough, she COULD take classes to advance herself. But no matter how you slice it, there are only 24 hours in each day, and classes cost money AND time.

      And do I care if Big Macs increase in price? Hell no, they aren't exactly necessities! If it will pay the employees there a living wage, I would be happy to pay more to eat at McDonald's.
      Laurie

      Comment


      • This is insensitive and I know I will be flamed but here it goes... If you can't afford to support 3 children, then either don't have them or do something to change it. Don't expect the governement to bail you out.

        I had a single friend who has a child, worked full time and went to college full time. She got her degree after many years of attending college and I am so proud of her accomplishments. She didn't depend on the government to support her. She busted her butt to better herself and support her daughter.

        Comment


        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Horseless In Georgia:
          It's not the governement's job to tell business owners how much to pay a person. If someone wants to be paid more, then they need to better themself to make more money.

          If minimum wage is increased to say for arguements sake to $8.00/hr, the price for a Big Mac at Mcdonalds will have to be increased to cover the cost of the employees. I don't know how much a Big Mac is now but I will say $3.00 If minimum wage is increased, then the burger's price may be increased $4.00. Well that affects the consumers who may decide that is too expensive and won't eat there anymore. This could happen in any business that would be forced to pay more for jobs that don't require much in the way of skills. All of this affects the economy! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          Ditto what lauriep said... How exactly DO you expect them to "better themselves?" These are people that work HARD already. By not increasing their minimal wage, they will not be able to live adequately, and thus will continue to need more government help. This, in turn, affects your pockets as well.

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
            ...I don't feel that someone should have to work 3 jobs to make ends meet... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Lauriep, "shouldn't HAVE to work?" Now we are heading back toward entitlements again. This is a matter of choice. A choice of educating yourself to the point that you can earn enough with one job to make ends meet, or not. Education is the key. Because these people did not choose to get enough education to perform a job worth more than minimum wage, they are entitled to "not have to work" more?

            In answer to your question regarding minimum wage, the answer is no. I do not support raising minimum wage. The work is worth what it is worth. Usually a minimum wage job is a non-qualified position, or a result of supply and demand. Raising minimum wage for these non-qualified jobs will hurt small businesses, who are the ones who provide 90% of the new jobs available in this country.

            There aren't all that many jobs that actually pay only minimum wage. Even physical labor jobs pay more than this. Waiter/waitress jobs earn more in tips for good service. Jobs at Walmart and Kmart pay minimum wage many times because the employee only wants to work part time.

            If wages were raised based on an entitlement, and not earned through merit, our country would experience a huge decrease in new jobs available, and a financial crisis of the federal governement.

            Oakleigh
            Oakleigh Sporthorses Sale Horses

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If minimum wage is increased to say for arguements sake to $8.00/hr, the price for a Big Mac at Mcdonalds will have to be increased to cover the cost of the employees. I don't know how much a Big Mac is now but I will say $3.00 If minimum wage is increased, then the burger's price may be increased $4.00. Well that affects the consumers who may decide that is too expensive and won't eat there anymore. This could happen in any business that would be forced to pay more for jobs that don't require much in the way of skills. All of this affects the economy!
              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              OK, but now we pay for this through tax dollars that support people who don't make enough - WIC, Medicaid for children etc. etc. Or the alternative is that we just don't pay extra and deal with the costs of poverty - crime, diesease, decrease in property values when people can't afford to maintain the home next to you...... and it goes on and on.

              I'd far rather pay the TRUE costs for my McNuggets than pay for what happens when people aren't paid enough to like decently.
              The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

              Comment


              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Horseless In Georgia:
                This is insensitive and I know I will be flamed but here it goes... If you can't afford to support 3 children, then either don't have them or do something to change it. Don't expect the governement to bail you out.

                I had a single friend who has a child, worked full time and went to college full time. She got her degree after many years of attending college and I am so proud of her accomplishments. She didn't depend on the government to support her. She busted her butt to better herself and support her daughter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Right. Which is why we need to give less fortunate people access to preventative healthcare, birth control education, and the right to electively terminate a pregnancy.

                Out of curiosity, did your friend attend a public school? Did she obtain student loans? If so, the government helped her....

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This is insensitive and I know I will be flamed but here it goes... If you can't afford to support 3 children, then either don't have them or do something to change it. Don't expect the governement to bail you out.
                  <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Valid point, but then can we please have more access to birth control? And people in the middleclass get HEFTY tax breaks for their babies..... (I'd advocate eliminating that). So don't have kids unless you can afford private school either....And it STILL doesn't address the fact that in many places, a minimum wage job doesn't even support ONE person adequately.
                  The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                  Comment


                  • oakleigh, I said shouldn't have to work <span class="ev_code_RED">3</span>jobs, not shouldn't have to work. Read for comprehension, please, and I stand by my statement. You shouldn't have to.
                    Laurie

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

                      Lauriep, "shouldn't _HAVE_ to work?" Now we are heading back toward entitlements again. This is a matter of choice. A choice of educating yourself to the point that you can earn enough with one job to make ends meet, or not. Education is the key. Because these people did not choose to get enough education to perform a job worth more than minimum wage, they are entitled to "not have to work" more?
                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Hmmm... in a majority of cases, it is not a choice. Unfortunately, the area you are raised in dictates the public schools you go to. Also unfortunately, our public schools are under-funded, especially inner city ones. They cannot help the quality or lack thereof of their public education. I am in no way belittling the contributions of very honorable teachers that work in these schools- it's just a fact- they are under-funded.

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ser42:
                        Right. Which is why we need to give less fortunate people access to preventative healthcare, birth control education, and the right to electively terminate a pregnancy.

                        .. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        No. We don't need to GIVE them anything other than the opportunity to get more education and EARN a position where they can support themselves. Our current government programs already provide this opportunity. Problem is, that many don't avail themselves of this opportunity.

                        Oakleigh
                        Oakleigh Sporthorses Sale Horses

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oakleigh:
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ser42:
                          Right. Which is why we need to give less fortunate people access to preventative healthcare, birth control education, and the right to electively terminate a pregnancy.

                          .. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          No. We don't need to GIVE them anything other than the opportunity to get more education and EARN a position where they can support themselves. Our current government programs already provide this opportunity. Problem is, that many don't avail themselves of this opportunity.

                          Oakleigh <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          No, they don't readily have access to PREVENTATIVE medicine. "W" doesn't advocate for birth control education, other than abstinence, and he doesn't advocate a woman's right to choose.

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ser42:

                            Hmmm... in a majority of cases, it is not a choice. Unfortunately, the area you are raised in dictates the public schools you go to. Also unfortunately, our public schools are under-funded, especially inner city ones. They cannot help the quality or lack thereof of their public education. I am in no way belittling the contributions of very honorable teachers that work in these schools- it's just a fact- they are under-funded. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            YES, it still is a matter of choice. You are asking for our youth to be spoon fed. There are libraries available that are full of FREE information. Books and periodicals to read. Videos to borrow, free. People can improve themselves outside of the public school system. Look at the vast number of parents who are home-schooling. There is no excuse other than laziness for not availing oneself of educational opportunities.

                            Oakleigh
                            Oakleigh Sporthorses Sale Horses

                            Comment


                            • ser42 - Oh, the less fortunate - what because they just aren't lucky enough to have money and a job that pays enough. I'm sorry, I don't believe in this less fortunate stuff. That is the soft democrat way of saying the rich should give money to the 'less fortunate'.

                              I assume my friend did have student loans, but I know her well enough that she is paying them back. Also, I believe she received some private scholarships, too.

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magnolia:
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If minimum wage is increased to say for arguements sake to $8.00/hr, the price for a Big Mac at Mcdonalds will have to be increased to cover the cost of the employees. I don't know how much a Big Mac is now but I will say $3.00 If minimum wage is increased, then the burger's price may be increased $4.00. Well that affects the consumers who may decide that is too expensive and won't eat there anymore. This could happen in any business that would be forced to pay more for jobs that don't require much in the way of skills. All of this affects the economy!
                                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                OK, but now we pay for this through tax dollars that support people who don't make enough - WIC, Medicaid for children etc. etc. Or the alternative is that we just don't pay extra and deal with the costs of poverty - crime, diesease, decrease in property values when people can't afford to maintain the home next to you...... and it goes on and on.

                                I'd far rather pay the TRUE costs for my McNuggets than pay for what happens when people aren't paid enough to like decently. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Exactly what I am trying to get to. Pay decent wages, and many of the entitlement programs could be done away with. But you can't have both sub-living wages, and no social programs to help people. And ya know what? Some people will never be able to get into colleges, even community colleges, to better themselves. WalMart and the like are all that they will ever have. Do we hold that against them? Do we make them have less productive family roles because they have to work 3 jobs? I would rather have them home in the evenings, helping their kids with THEIR schoolwork, keeping them off the streets, and trying to keep a cohesive family unit, then have mom or dad working the graveyard shift at WalMart for their 3rd job of the day.
                                Laurie

                                Comment


                                • Maybe they should have thought twice before having another child. We know what causes that.

                                  There are allot of jobs that pay better than walmart. For instance we have hourly employees who come to work via the busline and are paid more than walmart would ever be able to pay. They work harder and with the skills they are learning, if wanted they can move up! But people have to want to move up, learn more skills. If there is a guaranteed pay, then where is the incentive?

                                  Comment


                                  • "YES, it still is a matter of choice. You are asking for our youth to be spoon fed. There are libraries available that are full of FREE information. Books and periodicals to read. Videos to borrow, free. People can improve themselves outside of the public school system. Look at the vast number of parents who are home-schooling. There is no excuse other than laziness for not availing oneself of educational opportunities.

                                    Oakleigh"

                                    Oakleigh, study skills are something that need to be LEARNED in order to avail yourself of these amenities. Kids whose parents aren't home, because they are working, will not be guided to the library. Parents, even if they DO take advantage of the library, must still have a piece of paper from some institute of learning before all that reading will mean anything to an employer. And that means going to class, somewhere. And that means time/money WHICH THEY ALREADY DON'T HAVE!

                                    So, pay them enough to work only one job, raise their kids with supervision and guidance, and maybe have enough time to take advantage of a student loan, grant or scholarship and go to school.
                                    Laurie

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Horseless In Georgia:
                                      Maybe they should have thought twice before having another child. We know what causes that.

                                      There are allot of jobs that pay better than walmart. For instance we have hourly employees who come to work via the busline and are paid more than walmart would ever be able to pay. They work harder and with the skills they are learning, if wanted they can move up! But people have to want to move up, learn more skills. If there is a guaranteed pay, then where is the incentive? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      I hardly think that a guaranteed minimum wage of $7.00 is going to stop them from having incentive to move up. Even that isn't enough to live on ($14,560 before taxes), but it is a start. Some companies, like Wendy's, pride themselves on saying "We pay X over minimum wage to start." If you get the minimum wage to a decent amount, that begins to mean something.
                                      Laurie

                                      Comment


                                      • Someone making 14k with children aren't paying much if any in taxes. The choice that Wendy's makes to pay more is their choice - not the government forcing them to alter their business. Wendy's probably knows if they pay more, they can attract better employees. (which is evident when you go there compared to say McDonalds)!

                                        But some people don't have drive to make more money and do better in their lives - that is very obvious! I shouldn't have to pay for those people!!!!

                                        Comment


                                        • A political debate slightly aside ...

                                          Does it bother anyone that both John Kerry and George W. Bush (as was his father and grandfather) both belonged to the uber secret Skull & Bones society at Yale? This is a lifelong society not a mere fraternity and beyond being simply fascinating it is <span class="ev_code_RED">exceptionally creepy</span>.

                                          Vanity Fair did a large article on it in the spring and vast amounts of speculative discussions exists on the web. Scotsman 3/20/04 "Secrets and ties of the Bonesmen" , excerpt from "Secrets of the Tomb" book here

                                          It makes you wonder just how different these guys are behind the rhetoric

                                          Comment

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