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Election Day is oming - do you know who you are voting for and WHY?

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Well it looks as though the evangelical Christians have taken America. We deserve what we get. The only thing I can take solace in is that I live in my little bubble of intellectual and progressive thinkers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It's these kind of inflamatory and closed-minded statements that continue to rip apart our nation. Not all evangelicals are close-mined ingnoramouses that march lockstep with some Nazi-like devotion to a certain idealogue. This is just as inflamatory as saying that all Democrats are left-wing wacko liberals that only care about how many handouts they can get.

    What makes you think that evangelical Christian and "intellectual and progressive thinkers" are mutually exclusive? Many of the evangelicals that I know are physicists and doctors, both Phds and Medical. I also know many that voted for Kerry that are close minded and uneducated. To make the above kind of generalizations about a person's education or intellegence based on just how they voted is bigoted, meanspirited and closeminded.

    I'm not pointing the finger at the poster, just using the post to illustrate a point. If we want to heal our country, we are going to have to lay off the gross generalizations and demonizing of people that don't agree with our viewpoints. We MUST begin to treat each other with respect and courtesy, even when we disagree with them.

    *Steps off her soapbox*
    "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
    <><

    Comment


    • "We MUST begin to treat each other with respect and courtesy, even when we disagree with them."

      Well said Sparkie--however, that also applies to people (ie the President of the United States) trying to force religious beliefs and pro-life rhetoric upon those of us who disagree.
      Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.

      Comment


      • I am curious, how is he forcing you to believe anything different religiously than you do already? I haven't seen any legislation that dictates religion proposed?

        As for pro-life, much depends upon whether you accept biological fact that life begins at conception. If you do, then abortion kills someone. It is okay to legislate that I can't drink too much and run over people (manslaughter) or take a gun and shoot them. I don't see alot of difference.

        BUT that issue aside, nobody has lost the right to kill babies. And I believe that during the debates GW said that he did NOT have a litmus test for Judicial appointees, which would be the only way, other than a constitutional amendment that Roe v Wade could be overturned.
        "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
        <><

        Comment


        • He wants prayer in schools.

          He promotes faith based initiatives on charity, essentially forcing people to have to deal with a religious organization that is free to try and convert them to get things they are entitled to right now.

          He wants to ban abortion on religious grounds.

          He prefers his wife to be dutiful and promotes her as such. Not an image I want my future kids to see! Or my boyfriend

          He opposes stem cell research on moral grounds (so do I actually but I don't support banning it).

          He has taken funding from AIDS clinics and other public health outlets that discuss abortion as an option, on religious grounds.

          He frequently equates being religious/God fearing/ faithfull with "good" in his speeches.

          He has made me a lot less safe when I travel abroad by bringing religion into his pet war on terror (tm). Thanks for that.

          He has appointed his advisors and cabinet on the basis of their similar faith and has consistently NOT choosen well qualified people. Rice, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld?? All bad advisors. And their decisions affect ME too.

          He can never force me or anyonr to believe something they don't but he can damn well make it so that people have to pretend to believe.

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
            Which part is scary... that DC voted 90 percent for Kerry, or that they actually put Marion Barry back into public office? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Now THAT'S a tossup!!

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sparkie:


              As for pro-life, much depends upon whether you accept biological fact that life begins at conception. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Since when has it been a biological fact that life begins at conception?

              Comment


              • Marion Barry was elected with 96% of votes

                Is there a story behind that or are people just that crazy in DC

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He promotes faith based initiatives on charity, essentially forcing people to have to deal with a religious organization that is free to try and convert them to get things they are entitled to right now. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Actually, I like the idea of charity vs entitlement for the poor. Religion can be a good match with those who are needy.

                  It's pushing religious beliefs on people who don't need help that stinks.
                  The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                  Comment


                  • Magnolia, I think that forcing people to beg charity for something when we as a society have the ability to recognize need and provide it before they even ask is a terrible, humiliating thing to do to anyone.

                    Comment


                    • "He has taken funding from AIDS clinics and other public health outlets that discuss abortion as an option, on religious grounds."

                      You should actually blame Congress for this. The President does not determine where the money goes. The White House does publish a Budget every year, but it's treated by Congress as just a suggestion. Congress might follow some of the suggestions of an Administration, but the WH budget is not the end all, be all document.
                      And another thing- when Presidential candidates (no matter which party) say they are going to "fully fund" a particular program, that is also a crock for the same reasons- Congress decides where the $$ goes.

                      Comment


                      • Wasn't Marion Barry voted in to Ward 8 so that would mean that only Ward 8 voted on him, right? So I think that negates the arguement on the whole of DC voting for him but I do find it telling that the two places hit hard by 911 both voted for Kerry.
                        Grab mane and kick on!

                        http://www.ashleykriegeleventing.com/

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flycatcher:
                          "He has taken funding from AIDS clinics and other public health outlets that discuss abortion as an option, on religious grounds."

                          You should actually blame Congress for this. The President does not determine where the money goes. The White House does publish a Budget every year, but it's treated by Congress as just a suggestion. Congress might follow some of the suggestions of an Administration, but the WH budget is not the end all, be all document.
                          And another thing- when Presidential candidates (no matter which party) say they are going to "fully fund" a particular program, that is also a crock for the same reasons- Congress decides where the $$ goes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                          Let me rephrase that: the president told Congress to pass that and a bunch ofother stuff or his good buddy Ted Stevens wasn't authorizing any funds for anything else. On religious grounds.

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sparkie:
                            And I believe that during the debates GW said that he did NOT have a litmus test for Judicial appointees, which would be the only way, other than a constitutional amendment that Roe v Wade could be overturned. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Erm, no... I took his comment to mean that he won't exclude a pro-life judge merely because that judge is pro-life. (Obviously, Kerry would have.)

                            I (personally) think that was his backhanded way of giving hope to those who want to overturn Roe.

                            He didn't have a shot in hell of getting the Contitutional amendment against gay marriage passed either, but he sure made a point of putting it out there to make the religious right happy. I don't think it's a huge jump in logic to assume that if enough of these issues pandering to the religious right get on the table, some of them are going to start to get through. I'm not sure how willing the moderate Republicans are to stand up to their party...

                            Regarding Barry, he was running for a council seat or something, so no, the entirety of DC did not vote for him, he was only on the ballot in his district.

                            But DC did vote 90 percent for Kerry. Manhattan I believe was 82 percent or so for Kerry.

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Since when has it been a biological fact that life begins at conception? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              Since the middle 80's when I was in college studying biology. The debate wasn't whether the embryo was alive or not, the question was whether it was to be considered human or not.
                              "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
                              <><

                              Comment


                              • Silver, thanks for putting my thoughts into words. (I went to watch Kerry's concession speech. )
                                Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> He didn't have a shot in hell of getting the Contitutional amendment against gay marriage passed <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the states that had a vote to ban gay marriage or define it in their state, they generally had 60 to 75 % in favor of supporting traditional man/woman marriages. But I think that they need like 2/3 of the states to ratify any new ammendment, right?
                                  "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
                                  <><

                                  Comment


                                  • Yes, interesting that the two places that lost the most in 9-11, want Dubwya GONE.

                                    Guess where I lived just prior to moving to Switzerland, and after 9-11?

                                    What a sick joke.

                                    Comment


                                    • As far as faith based initiatives, any religion can start one. It isn't just Christian based. And most of them don't say that you have to believe what they do to get assistance.

                                      What is the difference between begging from a smaller group that might actually be in touch with the person and situation and begging from a federal program?

                                      And prayer in schools? Have you seen what constitutes prayer? " A moment of silence" If you were an aetheist, you could use it to mentally review your notes. And almost any other religion that acknowledges a higher power has some form of prayer.
                                      "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
                                      <><

                                      Comment


                                      • I don't think the amendment vote would have been so popular had it been on every ballot.

                                        I am in favor of civil unions. To me, marriage is a religious entity, which may be defined by whatever religion you choose to follow (I realize the technical definition is the same).

                                        Allowing civil unions allows a myriad of advantages, but the biggest (to me) are parental rights and medical priveledges (visiting rights, etc.).

                                        nwhr, I thought your last post was very well said.
                                        "[I don't like the word] try. To me, it means you plan to fail." --Robby Johnson

                                        "All you have to do to succeed is decide to succeed." Jimmy Wofford

                                        Comment


                                        • I'm posting this in both threads ... because it's important to me, love of my country. Thanks, in advance, for you tollerance.

                                          posted Nov. 03, 2004 02:45 PM
                                          I just listened to Sen. Kerry's concession speach, it was very well done. (Made me even more sure the wrong man was elected) Reading some of this thread today is heartbreaking. I love this Country and the Constitution that gives it legitimacy. When I was young I had a great teacher, he had us read (at an earlier age than anyother I've ever heard of) some classics "A Tale of Two Cities" was one. But two that were and will always remain guiding lights ... even foundations of life for me were "The Red Badge of Courage" and "A Man Without A Country", both stories of failed and re-born patriotism.

                                          Please think what you are saying when you renounce your patriotism and love of country. This IS a GREAT Country, it can be the light of the world if we don't forget what we stand for ... Freedom ... not just for Americans but for Mankind. I want to borrow a line from Sen. Kerry's speech; things may not have gone the way we hoped, "but tomorrow we ALL wake up AMERICANS!". God bless America ... God bless the World!
                                          \"The fool on the hill\"

                                          Comment

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