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Boarding a Stallion Advice needed

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  • #21
    How old is the stallion? And has he been used for breeding? If not, is that the owner's intention?
    www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
    "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
    Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

    Comment


    • #22
      I would not board him with an arrangement of no turnout and no paddock suitable for a stallion. What happens when the well meaning owner doesn't exercise his horse for a week or two? Or a month? And what is his experience with training? Is he a trainer or someone who fancies himself a trainer? Too many questions and concerns. I would pass.

      You said your price is a little high. The stallion owner is finding it difficult to find a boarding barn and is willing to pay your price but how much will you have to increase your price to accommodate a horse who does not go out and perhaps some extra liability insurance?

      He should go to a professional training barn that is equipped and experienced with handling stallions and he should be paying a trainer. Or, he should have his own barn where he can train and handle his stallion on his own property, at his own risk.

      Comment


      • #23
        Just a thought:

        Maybe the Stallion Owner doesn't want the turn out proposed by the OP because he doesn't want the OP to handle the horse? (At least until he gets to know the OP befter an evaluate her handling skills)

        Maybe since the SO will be there quite often, he's the one who wil put the stallion in turn out after/before his training sessions.
        ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

        Originally posted by LauraKY
        I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
        HORSING mobile training app

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        • #24
          Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
          Just a thought:

          Maybe the Stallion Owner doesn't want the turn out proposed by the OP because he doesn't want the OP to handle the horse? (At least until he gets to know the OP befter an evaluate her handling skills)

          Maybe since the SO will be there quite often, he's the one who wil put the stallion in turn out after/before his training sessions.
          So, would you board a stallion at a facility where you were not confident, going in, in their ability to handle your horse? Or would you find somewhere that you knew had experienced handlers? Also, she said he does not want turnout as he plans to work the horse. Not that he will do the turn out...

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          • #25
            I have owned, handled, ridden and boarded stallions for longer than I care to admit. at one point this summer we had 5 or 6 stallions on our farm, from the goofy yearling stud colt to breeding stallions to racehorses on layup. Needless to say, I don't have any issues accepting stallions. I would have a much bigger issue with someone not wanting any t/o for a healthy animal. That would be a deal breaker for me, not the horse's gender. The biggest PITA we've had lately was a qh gelding, in his 20's!
            Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch
            www.DifferentTimesEquestrianVentures.com

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            • #26
              Originally posted by sketcher View Post
              So, would you board a stallion at a facility where you were not confident, going in, in their ability to handle your horse? Or would you find somewhere that you knew had experienced handlers? Also, she said he does not want turnout as he plans to work the horse. Not that he will do the turn out...
              I happen to trust no one that I don't personaly know. Too much BS in this business, lots of 'professionals'. I would board there and see for myself if they are experienced handlers or not. If not, I wouldn't stay there.

              OP talks also about her/his paddock/dry lots. Why talk about something that will be useless to the SO?

              I think OP haven't put all the details of the conversation s/he had with the SO or maybe doesn't know much yet.
              ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

              Originally posted by LauraKY
              I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
              HORSING mobile training app

              Comment


              • #27
                Handling a stallion, even the most well behaved, is an intense mind game. They need respect, discipline, and fairness. I find stallions proficient in expectancy behavior, and if you get some nincompoop who thinks he knows more that he does, it can ruin the most docile stallion, or at least set them back in behavior. Do your homework.

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                • #28
                  I'm going to have to side with the "if you have to ask, no" group.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by happymom View Post
                    Handling a stallion, even the most well behaved, is an intense mind game. They need respect, discipline, and fairness. I find stallions proficient in expectancy behavior, and if you get some nincompoop who thinks he knows more that he does, it can ruin the most docile stallion, or at least set them back in behavior. Do your homework.
                    Ditto this. And to add, can't make a lot of handling mistakes with a stallion -- and if that happens, typically there is a price to pay. I'm still curious to know his age, if he has been used for breeding, or if that in the owner's plans. All of these things may impact your decision.
                    www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                    "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                    Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      It is amazing me to see how worried people are about stallions... In Europe, many stables board stallions, many horses live all their live without turn-out and do just fine. I don't recall more accidents or ooopss breedings or anything.

                      When I had my farm in Michigan, I had up to 6 stallions boarded for a 10 stall facility. And let me tell you, it was easier than when I had a couple of naughty mares.
                      Mares destroyed one of my doors, fencing, kicking you name it.

                      I currently have 2 stallions, they don't require any particular handling, they have a regular rope halter (no chain), they are never in your space, they stop if you stop without having to pull on the leadrope, they tie, they stand in the washstall, in some occasion they have been stabled next to mares, they are turned out next/with geldings, they travel in the trailer with a horse right next to them. They work and hack with other horses and are expected to behave.

                      By the way they are handled and treated, you would not know they are stallions. If they get pushy, they are put in their place, if they are good they get praises.

                      In my years of training I have had more issues with 'moody/pushy/sassy' mares than stallions.

                      When I take my stallions to show, clinics, outings, schooling, people talked to me like I'm handling tigers or some sort of dangerous beast. And I always get the 'wow, you would never know that he is a stallion, he is so well behaved' ... No, he is a horse and behaves like a horse.

                      It's not a gender thing, it's a training thing. Also, keeping them secluded/alone all the time is part of the problem. Horses are herd animals and so by not allowing stallions to socialize in a controlled manners it is just making things worse, because then they have no social skills and start to act up.

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                      • #31
                        Obviously, you are an experienced handler who has rules that all horses (stallions or not) need to become and remain good citizens.

                        Not everyone is "good" handler, regardless of the gender of the animal.

                        It's amazing the things I have sometimes seen horse owners allow their horses to do, yet they deem themselves "experienced" horsemen.

                        "Experienced" is a rather subjective term here in the USA I think.
                        www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                        "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                        Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by mademoiselle View Post

                          In my years of training I have had more issues with 'moody/pushy/sassy' mares than stallions.
                          I would worry more about your mares. Some mares get very hormonal when a stallion is near-by. A mare who usually has relatively calm heats can become a raging nympho when a stallion lives on the property. Depends on a lot of factors but it could be a real nuisance.
                          "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

                          "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Sonesta View Post
                            It is my belief that stallions should only be boarded in facilities in which the caregivers are EXTREMELY experienced in handling stallions. Even the sweetest stallion requires knowledge and skill.
                            I agree. I've boarded at both kinds of places.
                            Place A there were two breeding stallions and the trainer was extremely experienced and had both of them going nicely under saddle and doing groundwork (the high school classical kind). There were also staff at Place A who were not so experienced with stallions. These staff would occasionally suggest or attempt to do things with the stallions that would've posed a risk to other horses and boarders - had Trainer not been right there to put the kibosh on it.
                            Place B had one stallion who basically got dumped there - he proved too much for his owner and the BO was too kind-hearted to send the stallion away. No one had much experience with stallions. He actually had limited turnout but was isolated from other horses. I always thought he was a bomb waiting to go off. I don't think he ever injured anyone who wasn't getting paid to be there but I couldn't swear to it.
                            If I were in your shoes, I don't think I'd do it. But if you do, get warning signage up by his stall and wherever else someone might encounter him.
                            I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

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                            • #34
                              I'd object to the no turn out request. I worked at an Arabian show/breeding farm and all the stallions (4) got turn out time. Like a previous poster said, what if the guy doesn't make it out for a few days? It's just cruel to leave any healthy horse locked up all the time.

                              I just traveled across the country with my horse and spent a night (going and returning) at a "horse motel". There was a TWH stallion boarded at the place who rarely got out of his stall. At the risk of anthropomorphizing he looked absolutely miserable. I was told he'd been there since March, and the owner has been out 4 times. When he did get out he was put in a round pen where the ground was as hard as cement. I wanted to bring him home.
                              "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

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                              • #35
                                For the OP....I would give the prospective boarder a chance with some caveats as to what you will and will not allow....such as requirement for turnout etc., and require some sort of "probationary" period for both the owner and the stallion....then still put in a boarding contract some clause about eviction rights with 30 days notice. Turnout will make life easier on the handler AND the horse.

                                As the owner of a stallion I cannot emphasize how difficult it was to find a facility to board. The places either (1) wanted a mortgage payment only because the horse had testicles; (2) were incompetent; (3) were nut jobs or (4) combinations of 1, 2 and 3. Paying a mortgage payment in board did NOT insure people were competent stallion handlers regardless of their claims.

                                The only places I have found that actually treat stallions with respect and handle them as "just another horse" were racing farms that handled colts, stallions, mares, geldings and expected them to go out there and do their job.

                                If a barn owner is reasonably "psychologically normal" I was willing to show them how I wanted my horse handled. Found one place where we clicked.
                                Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                                Alfred A. Montapert

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I kept my horse and worked at a barn that had reining horses, and most were kept intact. At one point we had 3 stallions on the property. When the show season was done, they would get a few hours turnout a day in a small grassy paddock (one at a time), with no adjoining fences to other horses but within sight of everyone. In the barn, no mares went in stalls next to the stallions, but geldings were okay.

                                  These boys were well behaved, and in fact we could lead one of them around with just a rope around his neck (not that I would advise that - he lost his halter in turnout and I only had a rope, but knew the stud was a perfect gentleman). If I was riding my mare in the ring and the stallions were being ridden, they were absolutely expected to keep their mind on the task at hand and not worry about the girls.

                                  These stallions also didn't really like being out. They were used to being in as they were show horses, and so after an hour or 2 out would stand at the gate and want to come back in again, even in a very grassy paddock. So if this horse is a show horse and used to being in, I wouldn't be super concerned that this is what the owner wants. Maybe the horse handles it well.

                                  So it really does depend on the horse. A friend of mine has an arab stallion that rides, drives and breeds. He's retired from competion now because he's in his 20s, but she used to regularly take him off the property to compete or for trail rides with friends and also for breeding, and he knew the difference. He was a gentleman at all times and was handled but an amatuer who knew what she was doing.

                                  I think telling the stallion's owner your concerns up front, and saying that you'd take him on 30 days trial and reassess is a good idea. If this boy is well behaved and fits in at your place, then you can go from there.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I like stallions a lot and have handled several. I had a TB stud that was a puppy dog, but he could go out with a mixed herd and be happy as a clam. He was the exception rather than the rule and I know this. I've also had a rank and psychotic Arab stud that never got any turnout from his previous owner (I took him as a rescue). I find stallions to be pretty honest about things but I always make sure I'm on my game when working with them.

                                    If I were in your position OP, I would probably say no. Simply because the owner's husbandry methods (no turnout) don't mesh with your overall philosophy with horse keeping and that for your own conscious, you cannot see leaving an animal locked in a cell all day, every day. Also, are they actively marketing the stallion at stud? That does change things. If they are going to haul him out to be collected, you may be dealing with an amped up animal coming back from "servicing" the phantom and looking for other mares which may require his services.

                                    As a mare owner, I would be leary of boarding at someplace that isn't at the top of their game when it comes to stud colts and stallions. You bet your @$$ I would sue the stallion owner and the BO and any other responsible parties if my mare got bred by some rogue, mishandled stallion. And any escape/accidental breeding is mishandling in my book. It's not a risk or a liability I would be willing to take on in this business. Let someone else assume it.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      The old adage..If you have to ask ...then you shouldn't

                                      Unless you have a proper facility to keep a stallion (at a public boarding stable) you will be asking for problems of a legal nature.

                                      As far as "ground tying" a stallion in a wash rack...I don't care how wondereful any stallion is...that is foolish...from the point that another horse may attack him HOWEVER in the eyes of the law...he is a stallion and you will be found at fault.

                                      I have three stallions here and they can go from wonderful...cuddly to fire spitting devils in just minutes WHEN the hormones suddenly kick in.

                                      Every year people are killed or maimed, children are trampled etc by stallions who were "like members of the family"

                                      I can't remember the QH stallions name who killed the owners grand daughter when he was 26 (or older...I don't remember). Everyone was in shock...how could this happen?
                                      The Elephant in the room

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        I really have to disagree with those who say that stallion behavior isn't a "gender thing" but a "training issue." I've known several dangerous stallions who had nothing but the best handling and training from day one and who still turned out to be very difficult animals. I've known others who also have had nothing but the best who are still quite tough to handle sometimes. In every case where I've known a bad stallion who was gelded, the horse was a heck of a lot easier to deal with after being gelded, in fact, often they turn out pretty much perfect afterwards, which I don't think would be the case if their handling & training had been so terrible.

                                        It is EXTREMELY naive to say that if you just "expect a stallion to behave like a regular horse" that they will. I think it is a lot more realistic to say that if you have a good program PLUS you geld the stallions that can't behave nicely you will end up with some pleasant and manageable stallions.

                                        I don't live in Europe, so I can't comment on how the Europeans manage integrating stallions into public barns with beginners and kids, but I can say that the legal/liability picture here is very different. That's a reality that a boarding barn can't ignore no matter how much you might want to copy the European model.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Fairfax, I know some people that got killed by geldings and mares too, toddlers or young kids shouldn't be around horses without an adult right by their side.

                                          I don't understand why stallions shouldn't be tied in a wash stall ?

                                          Beehoney, first I have to tell you that it is the 1st time I have been called extremely naive by somebody!

                                          The worst horse I have had to deal with in my life (behaviour wise) was a gelding. He was so mean we had to put him down (and he managed to hurt the vet in the process).
                                          My barn help got hurt a couple of months ago not by any of the stallions but by the bombproof QH gelding ...

                                          As a young/problem horse trainer I have had more problems dealing with nasty mares than unrully stallions. And you are right, if they are so hard to handle that they are a danger for people then they should be gelded, period.

                                          If somebody gets hurt by ANY of your horses (regardless of the gender) it puts you at risk for a law suit, testicles or not...

                                          And the OP doesn't have a busy lesson barn, she runs a small private boarding facilty...

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